Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Tom Lane]

"Jonathan S. Katz"  writes:
> My inclination is to leave the statement alone or use that 2nd proposal
> I listed upthread.

I'd go with the simplest wording.  As you say, people running betas
are probably sufficiently versed in what to do that they don't need
the release announcement to tell them.

regards, tom lane

Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Jonathan S. Katz]

On 9/16/20 9:52 AM, Tom Lane wrote:
> Magnus Hagander  writes:
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:34 PM Jonathan S. Katz 
>> wrote:
>>> We've typically recommended doing the pg_upgrade since they may be
>>> coming from a version with a lower catversion. I can change "you will
>>> need" to "you may need" to be more accurate, but then that leads to the
>>> question "who may need?".
> 
>>  Maybe something like:
> 
>> To upgrade from beta , you will need
>> to use a major version upgrade strategy. To upgrade from beta > there was no catversion change>, just installing the new version and
>> restarting PostgreSQL is enough.
> 
> The last catversion bump was between beta2 and beta3.  Thus, if you
> were using beta2 or earlier, you *will* need a pg_upgrade or whatever.
> If you were on beta3 then it's more like a minor upgrade, just install
> the release executables and go.

...so this is why I typically leave the language as is. There are a
bunch of more correct permutations for how to describe what to do that
it's just simpler to say "will need to use..."

And because it's for betas/rc, the typical profile of one adopting the
betas are typically either developing the software or are very
experienced users. For those who are kicking the tires, the message
provides the safest of all options.

Now, if this were an update release, and if for whatever we had included
a catversion bump in the update release, I'd certainly mention that
explicitly.

My inclination is to leave the statement alone or use that 2nd proposal
I listed upthread.

Jonathan



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Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Tom Lane]

Magnus Hagander  writes:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:34 PM Jonathan S. Katz 
> wrote:
>> We've typically recommended doing the pg_upgrade since they may be
>> coming from a version with a lower catversion. I can change "you will
>> need" to "you may need" to be more accurate, but then that leads to the
>> question "who may need?".

>  Maybe something like:

> To upgrade from beta , you will need
> to use a major version upgrade strategy. To upgrade from beta  there was no catversion change>, just installing the new version and
> restarting PostgreSQL is enough.

The last catversion bump was between beta2 and beta3.  Thus, if you
were using beta2 or earlier, you *will* need a pg_upgrade or whatever.
If you were on beta3 then it's more like a minor upgrade, just install
the release executables and go.

regards, tom lane

Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Magnus Hagander]

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:34 PM Jonathan S. Katz 
wrote:

> On 9/16/20 1:08 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > On 2020-09-15 18:10, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> >> To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
> >> PostgreSQL 13, you will need to use a strategy similar to upgrading
> >> between
> >> major versions of PostgreSQL (e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` /
> >> `pg_restore`).
> >
> > Is this correct?  I don't see a catversion change between beta3 and rc1.
>
> We've typically recommended doing the pg_upgrade since they may be
> coming from a version with a lower catversion. I can change "you will
> need" to "you may need" to be more accurate, but then that leads to the
> question "who may need?".
>
> Perhaps the safest way to say it would be:
>
> "To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
> PostgreSQL 13, you may need to use a strategy for upgrading between
> major versions of PostgreSQL (e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` /
> `pg_restore`). If you are unsure of the upgrade strategy to use, we
> recommend using the major version upgrade strategy."



>
> (Though, this is why when typically brought up, I leave it at need, as
> it's more succinct, and those who are typically upgrading between betas
> + rcs tend to be more in the weeds anyway ;)
>
> > Also, if correct, the word "similar" seems redundant or confusing here.
>
> So if we opt to keep the above language:
>
> "To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
> PostgreSQL 13, you will need to use a major version upgrade strategy,
> e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` / `pg_restore`."
>

 Maybe something like:

To upgrade from beta , you will need
to use a major version upgrade strategy. To upgrade from beta , just installing the new version and
restarting PostgreSQL is enough.


-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Jonathan S. Katz]

On 9/16/20 1:08 AM, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> On 2020-09-15 18:10, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>> To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
>> PostgreSQL 13, you will need to use a strategy similar to upgrading
>> between
>> major versions of PostgreSQL (e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` /
>> `pg_restore`).
> 
> Is this correct?  I don't see a catversion change between beta3 and rc1.

We've typically recommended doing the pg_upgrade since they may be
coming from a version with a lower catversion. I can change "you will
need" to "you may need" to be more accurate, but then that leads to the
question "who may need?".

Perhaps the safest way to say it would be:

"To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
PostgreSQL 13, you may need to use a strategy for upgrading between
major versions of PostgreSQL (e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` /
`pg_restore`). If you are unsure of the upgrade strategy to use, we
recommend using the major version upgrade strategy."

(Though, this is why when typically brought up, I leave it at need, as
it's more succinct, and those who are typically upgrading between betas
+ rcs tend to be more in the weeds anyway ;)

> Also, if correct, the word "similar" seems redundant or confusing here.

So if we opt to keep the above language:

"To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
PostgreSQL 13, you will need to use a major version upgrade strategy,
e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` / `pg_restore`."

Jonathan



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Re: PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 release announcement draft

[Peter Eisentraut]

On 2020-09-15 18:10, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:

To upgrade to PostgreSQL 13 RC 1 from Beta 3 or an earlier version of
PostgreSQL 13, you will need to use a strategy similar to upgrading between
major versions of PostgreSQL (e.g. `pg_upgrade` or `pg_dump` / `pg_restore`).


Is this correct?  I don't see a catversion change between beta3 and rc1.

Also, if correct, the word "similar" seems redundant or confusing here.

--
Peter Eisentraut  http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services