Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Tom Lane wrote: Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is new version of catalogs overview patch. This version add only one column into overview table which contains Oid/Filename for each catalog table. Oid information is important if someone need make relation with filename on disk and related catalog table. I still say this is just confusing clutter. The proposed patch even goes so far as to give the OID pride of place as the most important item you could possibly want to know about a catalog, which is surely silly. You have right that OID is not important information in many cases, but how I said It is useful when you want know relation between filename and catalog table. People who actually want to know this information can look into the pg_class catalog, which has the advantages of being complete (eg, it covers indexes too), guaranteed up-to-date, and easily program-readable. I really do not see the value of putting it in the sgml docs. You can look into pg_class catalog only if database is running. If you have some data corruption problem, OID should help during recovery. But you have right, that pg_class have complex information and who want to "play" with datafiles, he must know more than OID. OK, thanks for response, forget to this patch Zdenek ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > There is new version of catalogs overview patch. This version add only > one column into overview table which contains Oid/Filename for each > catalog table. Oid information is important if someone need make > relation with filename on disk and related catalog table. I still say this is just confusing clutter. The proposed patch even goes so far as to give the OID pride of place as the most important item you could possibly want to know about a catalog, which is surely silly. People who actually want to know this information can look into the pg_class catalog, which has the advantages of being complete (eg, it covers indexes too), guaranteed up-to-date, and easily program-readable. I really do not see the value of putting it in the sgml docs. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Zdenek Kotala wrote: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with the catalogs it could have some use. Global means share table stored in global directory :-). Ok I change it. There is new version of catalogs overview patch. This version add only one column into overview table which contains Oid/Filename for each catalog table. Oid information is important if someone need make relation with filename on disk and related catalog table. In this column shared table are marked as well. Other information like bootstrap and with-oids are really useless and they is not mentioned. Zdenek Index: doc/src/sgml/catalogs.sgml === RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/catalogs.sgml,v retrieving revision 2.134 diff -c -r2.134 catalogs.sgml *** doc/src/sgml/catalogs.sgml 22 Sep 2006 23:20:13 - 2.134 --- doc/src/sgml/catalogs.sgml 4 Oct 2006 12:17:49 - *** *** 33,47 Most system catalogs are copied from the template database during database creation and are thereafter database-specific. A few catalogs are physically shared across all databases in a cluster; !these are noted in the descriptions of the individual catalogs. System Catalogs ! Catalog Name Purpose --- 33,49 Most system catalogs are copied from the template database during database creation and are thereafter database-specific. A few catalogs are physically shared across all databases in a cluster; !these are noted in the Oid/Filename column and in the descriptions !of the individual catalogs. System Catalogs ! + Oid/Filename Catalog Name Purpose *** *** 49,214 --- 51,249 + 2600 pg_aggregate aggregate functions + 2601 pg_am index access methods + 2602 pg_amop access method operators + 2603 pg_amproc access method support procedures + 2604 pg_attrdef column default values + 1249 pg_attribute table columns (attributes) + 1260 (shared) pg_authid authorization identifiers (roles) + 1261 (shared) pg_auth_members authorization identifier membership relationships + 1248 pg_autovacuum per-relation autovacuum configuration parameters + 2605 pg_cast casts (data type conversions) + 1259 pg_class tables, indexes, sequences, views (relations) + 2606 pg_constraint check constraints, unique constraints, primary key constraints, foreign key constraints + 2607 pg_conversion encoding conversion information + 1262 (shared) pg_database databases within this database cluster + 2608 pg_depend dependencies between database objects + 2609 pg_description descriptions or comments on database objects + 2610 pg_index additional index information + 2611 pg_inherits table inheritance hierarchy + 2612 pg_language languages for writing functions + 2613 pg_largeobject large objects + 2614 pg_listener asynchronous notification support + 2615 pg_namespace schemas + 2616 pg_opclass index access method operator classes + 2617 pg_operator operators + 1136 (shared) pg_pltemplate template data for procedural languages + 1255 pg_proc functions and procedures + 2618 pg_rewrite query rewrite rules + 1214 (shared) pg_shdepend dependencies on shared objects + 2396 (shared) pg_shdescription comments on shared objects + 2619 pg_statistic planner statistics + 1213 (shared) pg_tablespace tablespaces within this database cluster + 2620
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Alvaro Herrera wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns. First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global. Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter. What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with the catalogs it could have some use. Global means share table stored in global directory :-). Ok I change it. Thanks for comment Zdenek ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Tom Lane napsal(a): Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns. First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global. Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter. I'm working on pg_upgrade and these information are important for me and I think that They should be interest some else. You can easy determine the file related to if you know the OID. Specially when database is shutdown is good to have some information source. If catalog table is global/share or local is very important and it is not mentioned anywhere. If it is created with oid or bootstrap it is not important for standard purpose, it is only for fullness. I know that people who hacking postgres ten years know this, however it is internals chapter and for newbies it should be useful. And by the way it is documentation and this is completion of information. You can say why we have page layout there because it is described in the source code and so on... Zdenek ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
On Sun, Sep 03, 2006 at 12:01:06AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > But ever since 7.3 the convention for identifying system objects has > been pretty well-defined: anything that lives in one of the predefined > schemas. What problem were you having using that approach in > newsysviews? It was just an issue of trawling through pg_dump to confirm that. -- Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] 512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
"Jim C. Nasby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 12:36:11PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me. > Something that might be handy would be a method to determine if an > object is a system object or not (perhaps what the OP means by > bootstrap). No, what the OP meant by bootstrap is "one of the four core BKI_BOOTSTRAP catalogs, and the reason they're so core is that bootstrap mode itself doesn't really work till they exist". (I agree with Alvaro that by the time you get interested in what BKI_BOOTSTRAP does, you probably don't need to have any hand-holding from catalogs.sgml; you're already at least an apprentice wizard.) But ever since 7.3 the convention for identifying system objects has been pretty well-defined: anything that lives in one of the predefined schemas. What problem were you having using that approach in newsysviews? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 12:36:11PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Tom Lane wrote: > > Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns. > > > First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes > > > which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global. > > > > Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter. > > What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is > shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know > which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with > the catalogs it could have some use. > > The OIDs may be useful to people inspecting pg_depend, for example; but > then, it's foolish not to be using regclass in that case. > > Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me. Something that might be handy would be a method to determine if an object is a system object or not (perhaps what the OP means by bootstrap). We spent quite some time figuring out how to handle that when we were working on newsysviews. In that case, we wanted the info because it's handy to be able to query a view that's not cluttered up with a bunch of system-defined stuff. Having a way to get a list of only user-defined functions, for example. -- Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] 512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Tom Lane wrote: > Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns. > > First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes > > which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global. > > Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter. What's "global"? A maybe-useful flag would be telling that a table is shared. Is that it? Mind you, it's not useful to me because I know which tables are shared, but I guess for someone not so familiar with the catalogs it could have some use. The OIDs may be useful to people inspecting pg_depend, for example; but then, it's foolish not to be using regclass in that case. Whether a table is "bootstrap" or not doesn't seem useful to me. -- Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] DOC: catalog.sgml
Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I little bit enhanced overview catalog tables. I added two new columns. > First one is OID of catalog table and second one contains attributes > which determine if the table is bootstrap, with oid and global. Why is this a good idea? It seems like mere clutter. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
