Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Shridhar Daithankar wrote: Hi all, Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI, http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL? Regards, Andreas ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Rodrigo wrote: > Shridhar Daithankar wrote: > > Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI, > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp > > > > Shridhar > > From the page: > > > A new Snapshot Isolation (SI) level will be provided at the > > database level. With SI, users will be able to access the > > last committed row using a transitionally consistent view > > of the database. This capability will provide greater > > scalability for very large database (VLDB) implementations. > > Is Snapshot Isolation == MVCC ? I think it goes that MVCC is a kind of snap shot, but snap shotting could be provided by more ways than just MVCC. But I'm not 100% certain on that. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Shridhar Daithankar wrote: Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI, http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp Shridhar From the page: > A new Snapshot Isolation (SI) level will be provided at the > database level. With SI, users will be able to access the > last committed row using a transitionally consistent view > of the database. This capability will provide greater > scalability for very large database (VLDB) implementations. Is Snapshot Isolation == MVCC ? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Can't they just let the old index continue to work while generating the new index and then after the new index is created switch? I know the details are more complex but what would be the factor(s) preventing this? Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod Taylor Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:41 PM To: Robert Treat Cc: Andreas Pflug; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; PostgreSQL Development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote: > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp > > > > > Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL? > > > > Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild > > indexes on the fly. That is a pretty slick trick. > > > > I was trying to decide how much better this was than > > BEGIN; > DROP INDEX foo ON bar; > CREATE INDEX foo ON bar; > COMMIT; Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates, delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index recreation. Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a slick trick. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:40, Rod Taylor wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:
> > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp
> > >
> > > > Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?
> > >
> > > Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
> > > the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.
> > >
> >
> > I was trying to decide how much better this was than
> >
> > BEGIN;
> > DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
> > CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
> > COMMIT;
>
> Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates,
> delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index
> recreation.
>
> Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked
> during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a
> slick trick.
>
Sorry, I should have written that the other way around-ish...
assume table foo has an index bat on column bar.
BEGIN;
CREATE INDEX baz on foo (bar);
DROP INDEX bat;
COMMIT;
during index creation other folks can select from the table all they
want without being blocked, and upon commit they will switch to the new
index. I've always thought that was a nifty trick, but it's true that
still blocks updates/inserts/deletes, so the m$ feature does sound kinda
slick. :-)
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:
> > >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp
>
> > Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?
>
> Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
> the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.
>
I was trying to decide how much better this was than
BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your
joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote: > > > >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp > > > > > Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL? > > > > Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on > > the fly. That is a pretty slick trick. > > > > I was trying to decide how much better this was than > > BEGIN; > DROP INDEX foo ON bar; > CREATE INDEX foo ON bar; > COMMIT; Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates, delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index recreation. Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a slick trick. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
> >http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp > Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL? Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on the fly. That is a pretty slick trick. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Yes MS tools for MS SQL have always been there strong point. Easy to get started and get things going quickly. I on the other hand have never ran into a lack of flexibility with the client APIs or the stored procedure syntax. In all cases I have encountered we have turned away from MS SQL because the scalability and high availability options have been weak to non existent. Keith -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Merlin Moncure Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version Most of the new features are new database tools, etc. That has always been a strong point with SQL server. IMO, the weak point of the database (aside from the vendor and the price), is a lack flexibility of the client APIs and the stored procedure syntax. The interesting features are the xml querying, recursive querying, and 'multiple active results sets'. I think MS is laying down a more relational foundation which would allow for such features. They have been working on this product for years and years...it will be fun to see how it turns out. Merlin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI, http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp Also, kick-arse Oracle analytic features: http://www.akadia.com/services/ora_analytic_functions.html Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Most of the new features are new database tools, etc. That has always been a strong point with SQL server. IMO, the weak point of the database (aside from the vendor and the price), is a lack flexibility of the client APIs and the stored procedure syntax. The interesting features are the xml querying, recursive querying, and 'multiple active results sets'. I think MS is laying down a more relational foundation which would allow for such features. They have been working on this product for years and years...it will be fun to see how it turns out. Merlin ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
[HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version
Hi all, Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI, http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp Shridhar ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
