Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On 3/13/13 7:10 PM, Ants Aasma wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Jim Nasby j...@nasby.net wrote: On 3/12/13 9:10 AM, Ants Aasma wrote: I have a feeling this is an increasingly widespread pattern with a proliferation of mobile devices that need syncing. If you're doing that with timestamps you're asking for a slew of problems, not all of which can be solved by just adding some random amount of fluff to your criteria. A queue-based solution is often a more robust solution, even if it is harder to implement. Do you know of anything else besides the obvious issues with having to use one clocksource and ensure that it produces monotonic timestamps? Those issues aren't enough? :) My first reaction was also that this is what queues are meant for, but the proposed solution seems to work surprisingly well. Unless you can point at some glaring hole that I'm missing I would say that it is good enough for a rather wide range of syncing problems. It depends on how critical it is not to miss events. Timestamps in tables are always taken before transaction commit, so you can sometimes have a significant delay. You have to make certain the timestamp can't be changed, and that rows can't be deleted. It's also tricky to make certain you don't see any events twice. Given all that, and how easy PgQ is to use, I don't understand why anyone would go with timestamps... -- Jim C. Nasby, Data Architect j...@nasby.net 512.569.9461 (cell) http://jim.nasby.net -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On 3/12/13 9:10 AM, Ants Aasma wrote: I have a feeling this is an increasingly widespread pattern with a proliferation of mobile devices that need syncing. If you're doing that with timestamps you're asking for a slew of problems, not all of which can be solved by just adding some random amount of fluff to your criteria. A queue-based solution is often a more robust solution, even if it is harder to implement. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Jim Nasby j...@nasby.net wrote: On 3/12/13 9:10 AM, Ants Aasma wrote: I have a feeling this is an increasingly widespread pattern with a proliferation of mobile devices that need syncing. If you're doing that with timestamps you're asking for a slew of problems, not all of which can be solved by just adding some random amount of fluff to your criteria. A queue-based solution is often a more robust solution, even if it is harder to implement. Do you know of anything else besides the obvious issues with having to use one clocksource and ensure that it produces monotonic timestamps? My first reaction was also that this is what queues are meant for, but the proposed solution seems to work surprisingly well. Unless you can point at some glaring hole that I'm missing I would say that it is good enough for a rather wide range of syncing problems. Ants Aasma -- Cybertec Schönig Schönig GmbH Gröhrmühlgasse 26 A-2700 Wiener Neustadt Web: http://www.postgresql-support.de -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Greg Stark st...@mit.edu wrote: On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Jim Nasby j...@nasby.net wrote: Something worth considering on this... I suspect it's possible to use an index-only scan to do this, regardless of whether the heap page is all visible. The reason is that the newly created index would just use the same access methodology as the original index, so any dead rows would be ignored. This is actually quite clever. I wonder how many other cases can use similar logic. I actually just dealt with a case where this would have been helpful. The case is finding rows from a huge table where a foreign key reference matches one from a list of IDs and the last change date is larger than some specific value. The best plan for this is to build bitmaps for both conditions. The performance issue is that the bitmap for the IDs can get pretty large and expensive to construct. Solution for that is to keep a partial index on the foreign key predicated on a recent timestamp covering most queries, removing 99% of tuples from consideration. This index needs to be periodically replaced with one that has a newer timestamp. A full table scan could be avoided if the index could be built using the previous partial index. Now this was on 9.1, so I didn't consider index only, but on 9.2+ I would add the timestamp to the foreign key index, then the new index could be constructed using an index only scan. I have a feeling this is an increasingly widespread pattern with a proliferation of mobile devices that need syncing. Ants Aasma -- Cybertec Schönig Schönig GmbH Gröhrmühlgasse 26 A-2700 Wiener Neustadt Web: http://www.postgresql-support.de -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM, Jim Nasby j...@nasby.net wrote: Something worth considering on this... I suspect it's possible to use an index-only scan to do this, regardless of whether the heap page is all visible. The reason is that the newly created index would just use the same access methodology as the original index, so any dead rows would be ignored. This is actually quite clever. I wonder how many other cases can use similar logic. We'd almost certainly need to block vacuums during the build however. Obviously not an issue for regular index builds, but it would be for concurrent ones. Concurrent index builds block vacuums already. -- greg -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
On 2/2/13 4:05 AM, Paul Norman wrote: Hello, After a discussion on IRC in #postgresql, I had a feature suggestion and it was suggested I write it up here. I have a large (200GB, 1.7b rows) table with a number of columns, but the two of interest here are a hstore column, tags and a postgis geometry column, geom. There is a GIN index on tags and a gist index on geom. These took about 36-48 hours to build in total. Obviously index building on a table this size is not trivial. Periodically I want to do a number of specialized queries on objects with a particular tag or in a particular area. To do this I often want to create a partial index. For example, I created the index btree ((tags - 'name_1'::text) text_pattern_ops) WHERE tags ? 'name_1'::text. My understanding is to create this index PostgreSQL does a scan of the entire table, even though the GIN index on tags could be used to identify which rows could belong in the index. Where the WHERE condition selects only a small portion of the table this is scanning a lot more data than is necessary. Another case where it would be useful is when I am conducting a detailed analysis of some aspect of the rows in a particular city. This leads to all the queries being of the form SELECT ... FROM ... WHERE is_in_my_area(geom)[1]. My current project is doing analysis involving addresses. The ability to create an index like btree((tags - 'addr:housenumber'), (tags - 'addr:street'), (tags - 'addr:city')) WHERE is_in_my_area(geom) in a reasonable time would allow me to use a view instead of copying the local area to a temporary table and indexing that table. The local area is about 350k rows, or about 0.02% of the database. [1] The actual function for determining if it's in my area is long and not really essential to the point here. Something worth considering on this... I suspect it's possible to use an index-only scan to do this, regardless of whether the heap page is all visible. The reason is that the newly created index would just use the same access methodology as the original index, so any dead rows would be ignored. We'd almost certainly need to block vacuums during the build however. Obviously not an issue for regular index builds, but it would be for concurrent ones. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
[HACKERS] Using indexes for partial index builds
Hello, After a discussion on IRC in #postgresql, I had a feature suggestion and it was suggested I write it up here. I have a large (200GB, 1.7b rows) table with a number of columns, but the two of interest here are a hstore column, tags and a postgis geometry column, geom. There is a GIN index on tags and a gist index on geom. These took about 36-48 hours to build in total. Obviously index building on a table this size is not trivial. Periodically I want to do a number of specialized queries on objects with a particular tag or in a particular area. To do this I often want to create a partial index. For example, I created the index btree ((tags - 'name_1'::text) text_pattern_ops) WHERE tags ? 'name_1'::text. My understanding is to create this index PostgreSQL does a scan of the entire table, even though the GIN index on tags could be used to identify which rows could belong in the index. Where the WHERE condition selects only a small portion of the table this is scanning a lot more data than is necessary. Another case where it would be useful is when I am conducting a detailed analysis of some aspect of the rows in a particular city. This leads to all the queries being of the form SELECT ... FROM ... WHERE is_in_my_area(geom)[1]. My current project is doing analysis involving addresses. The ability to create an index like btree((tags - 'addr:housenumber'), (tags - 'addr:street'), (tags - 'addr:city')) WHERE is_in_my_area(geom) in a reasonable time would allow me to use a view instead of copying the local area to a temporary table and indexing that table. The local area is about 350k rows, or about 0.02% of the database. [1] The actual function for determining if it's in my area is long and not really essential to the point here. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
