Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
2008/8/6 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are still two places in the system that hard-wire the use of sorting for duplicate elimination: * Set operations (UNION/INTERSECT/EXCEPT) Egads. Are you thinking to reimplement them more in line with the way other nodes work? Or just have them choose between hashing and sorting themselves? Well, actually, after looking closer I'm realizing that it's harder than I thought. I had been thinking that we could just have the planner choose whether to generate grouping instead of sorting nodes, but that only works for plain UNION. For INTERSECT/EXCEPT (with or without ALL), you really need to maintain counters in each hashtable entry so you know how many matching rows you got from each side of the set operation. So it'd be necessary to either duplicate a large chunk of nodeAgg.c, or make that code handle hashed INTERSECT/EXCEPT along with all its existing duties. Neither of which seems particularly appealing :-(. I'm going to look at whether nodeAgg can be refactored to avoid this, but I'm feeling a bit discouraged about it at the moment. In working on window functions, I also found that nodeWindow.c duplicates much of nodeAgg.c, which contains not only aggregates but reading ahead until next group. Additionally, not having implemented but planned, frame concept that slides aggregates within a partition will require multiple saved positions of tuplestore. Up to now Tuplestore has functionality to mark/restore pos but it is only one chance, which means when you mark a pos the previous pos cannot be restore anymore. The window frame will need to do mark multiple times and to restore older ones. Any idea what would the needed executor infrastructure look like? Would it have anything in common with the OLAP window functions infrastructure? Possibly; I haven't paid much attention to the OLAP work yet. regards, tom lane In my patch nodeWindow.c, some functions reach for its parent state node to get info of sort keys by using fcinfo-context. This works but is completely ugly. At least, window functions need ability to reach for key or whole tuple of current or of offset (preceding/following) row. If another feature like DISTINCT needs similar one, I am encouraged to give more opinion. Regards, -- Hitoshi Harada -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Tom Lane wrote: I've pretty much finished the project I got a bee in my bonnet about last week, which is to teach SELECT DISTINCT how to (optionally) use hashing for grouping in the same way that GROUP BY has been able to do for awhile. There are still two places in the system that hard-wire the use of sorting for duplicate elimination: * Set operations (UNION/INTERSECT/EXCEPT) * Aggregate functions with DISTINCT I'm thinking of trying to fix set operations before I leave this topic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to change DISTINCT aggregates. They'd be a lot more work (since there's no executor infrastructure in place that could be used) and the return on investment seems low. Comments? regards, tom lane i feel it exactly the same way. DISTINCT has been a place people wanted to see fixed for a while but set operations are nothing I would really worry about. what we have now is absolutely fine. given the list of more important issues, i'd vote for something else. best regards, hans -- Cybertec Schönig Schönig GmbH PostgreSQL Solutions and Support Gröhrmühlgasse 26, A-2700 Wiener Neustadt Tel: +43/1/205 10 35 / 340 www.postgresql-support.de, www.postgresql-support.com -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Hitoshi Harada [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In my patch nodeWindow.c, some functions reach for its parent state node to get info of sort keys by using fcinfo-context. This works but is completely ugly. Isn't that the same thing nodeAgg does: pass its AggState to aggregate functions? I don't see anything ugly about it --- at least, any alternative you care to name is likely to be far worse. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
2008/8/6 Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hitoshi Harada [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In my patch nodeWindow.c, some functions reach for its parent state node to get info of sort keys by using fcinfo-context. This works but is completely ugly. Isn't that the same thing nodeAgg does: pass its AggState to aggregate functions? I don't see anything ugly about it --- at least, any alternative you care to name is likely to be far worse. Correct. I learned that method from nodeAgg. What I meant was that window functions reach for plan node and its sort keys through winstate-ss.ps. The mechanism is not ugly but some macros or exposed API seem more comfortable, especially if thinking about formulating window functions as user-defined functions. Regards, -- Hitoshi Harada -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Hitoshi Harada [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Correct. I learned that method from nodeAgg. What I meant was that window functions reach for plan node and its sort keys through winstate-ss.ps. The mechanism is not ugly but some macros or exposed API seem more comfortable, especially if thinking about formulating window functions as user-defined functions. Agreed, I was about to suggest the same thing. Have the window functions pass the WindowState to some interface code that gets what they need for them. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
I wrote: ... For INTERSECT/EXCEPT (with or without ALL), you really need to maintain counters in each hashtable entry so you know how many matching rows you got from each side of the set operation. So it'd be necessary to either duplicate a large chunk of nodeAgg.c, or make that code handle hashed INTERSECT/EXCEPT along with all its existing duties. Neither of which seems particularly appealing :-(. I'm going to look at whether nodeAgg can be refactored to avoid this, but I'm feeling a bit discouraged about it at the moment. Actually, it seems that most of what could be shared has already been factored out into execGrouping.c. I find that supporting hashing in nodeSetOp.c will only roughly double its size (from 318 to 650 lines). Although nodeAgg.c is about 1700 lines, most of its bulk comes from managing the aggregate transition values and function calls. There might be some scope to save a few lines by refactoring, but it doesn't look like it's worth the trouble. The attached WIP patch compiles, but I've not tested it yet for lack of planner support. If some of the code looks suspiciously like nodeAgg.c, it's because I started from nodeAgg and just stripped everything that wasn't needed ... If there are no objections, I'll push forward with persuading the planner to support hashable set operations. regards, tom lane binV8SZapFAba.bin Description: hashed-setops-1.patch.gz -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Sounds very much like 80% 20% story. 80% that was easy to do is done and now 20% that is complex and progress is slow is left to be done. Sounds very familiar from the comment in plan cache invalidation :) On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've pretty much finished the project I got a bee in my bonnet about last week, which is to teach SELECT DISTINCT how to (optionally) use hashing for grouping in the same way that GROUP BY has been able to do for awhile. There are still two places in the system that hard-wire the use of sorting for duplicate elimination: * Set operations (UNION/INTERSECT/EXCEPT) * Aggregate functions with DISTINCT I'm thinking of trying to fix set operations before I leave this topic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to change DISTINCT aggregates. They'd be a lot more work (since there's no executor infrastructure in place that could be used) and the return on investment seems low. Comments? regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've pretty much finished the project I got a bee in my bonnet about last week, which is to teach SELECT DISTINCT how to (optionally) use hashing for grouping in the same way that GROUP BY has been able to do for awhile. There are still two places in the system that hard-wire the use of sorting for duplicate elimination: * Set operations (UNION/INTERSECT/EXCEPT) Egads. Are you thinking to reimplement them more in line with the way other nodes work? Or just have them choose between hashing and sorting themselves? * Aggregate functions with DISTINCT I'm thinking of trying to fix set operations before I leave this topic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to change DISTINCT aggregates. They'd be a lot more work (since there's no executor infrastructure in place that could be used) and the return on investment seems low. Comments? I recall being quite mystified by how distinct aggregates work when the sort didn't appear anywhere in EXPLAIN output. If we could manage to expose that info in the plan somehow it would be a great improvement even if we didn't actually improve the plans available. Any idea what would the needed executor infrastructure look like? Would it have anything in common with the OLAP window functions infrastructure? -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Get trained by Bruce Momjian - ask me about EnterpriseDB's PostgreSQL training! -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] Status of DISTINCT-by-hashing work
Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There are still two places in the system that hard-wire the use of sorting for duplicate elimination: * Set operations (UNION/INTERSECT/EXCEPT) Egads. Are you thinking to reimplement them more in line with the way other nodes work? Or just have them choose between hashing and sorting themselves? Well, actually, after looking closer I'm realizing that it's harder than I thought. I had been thinking that we could just have the planner choose whether to generate grouping instead of sorting nodes, but that only works for plain UNION. For INTERSECT/EXCEPT (with or without ALL), you really need to maintain counters in each hashtable entry so you know how many matching rows you got from each side of the set operation. So it'd be necessary to either duplicate a large chunk of nodeAgg.c, or make that code handle hashed INTERSECT/EXCEPT along with all its existing duties. Neither of which seems particularly appealing :-(. I'm going to look at whether nodeAgg can be refactored to avoid this, but I'm feeling a bit discouraged about it at the moment. I recall being quite mystified by how distinct aggregates work when the sort didn't appear anywhere in EXPLAIN output. If we could manage to expose that info in the plan somehow it would be a great improvement even if we didn't actually improve the plans available. The problem is that each DISTINCT aggregate needs its own sort (or hash), which doesn't seem to fit into our plan tree structure. Any idea what would the needed executor infrastructure look like? Would it have anything in common with the OLAP window functions infrastructure? Possibly; I haven't paid much attention to the OLAP work yet. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
