[PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi, Forward my question from HACKERS list to here (and added some more notes): I have tried unix domain socket and the performance is similar with TCP socket. It is MIPS architecture so memory copy to/from kernel can occupy much time, and apparently using unit domain socket has no difference than TCP in terms of memory copy. But it is still unbelievable for the ten-fold gap between the client side statistic and the server side statistics. So I want to know what exactly the operations are involved in the server side statistics in EXPLAIN ANALYZE. May I check the code later on when I get time. For the query itself, it was just for performance comparison. There are other index based queries, which are of course much faster, but still result in similar ten-fold of time gap between client side and server side statistics. I am thinking of non-kernel involved client interface, is there such an option, or do I have to develop one from scratch? Besides, the test was done on the same host (without network cost). And even considering the memory copying cost it is not reasonable, because the client did similar job using another IPC mechanism via kernel space to transfer the data again to another program, which appears to be quite fast - costed even much less than the time shown by EXPLAIN ANALYZE. Is there anyone can help me to explain this? Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Amit Kapila amit.kap...@huawei.com wrote: So, is it client interface (ODBC, libpq) 's cost mainly due to TCP? The difference as compare to your embedded DB you are seeing is mainly seems to be due to TCP. One optimization you can use is to use Unix-domain socket mode of PostgreSQL. You can refer unix_socket_directory parameter in postgresql.conf and other related parameters. I am suggesting you this as earlier you were using embedded DB, so your client/server should be on same machine. If now this is not the case then it will not work. Can you please clarify some more things like 1. After doing sequence scan, do you need all the records in client for which seq. scan is happening. If less records then why you have not created index. 2. What is exact scenario for fetching records pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Zhou Han Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:30 AM To: pgsql-hack...@postgresql.org Subject: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics Hi, I am checking a performance problem encountered after porting old embeded DB to postgreSQL. While the system is real-time sensitive, we are concerning for per-query cost. In our environment sequential scanning (select * from ...) for a table with tens of thousands of record costs 1 - 2 seconds, regardless of using ODBC driver or the timing result shown in psql client (which in turn, relies on libpq). However, using EXPLAIN ANALYZE, or checking the statistics in pg_stat_statement view, the query costs only less than 100ms. rface (ODBC, libpq) 's cost mainly due to TCP? Has the pg_stat_statement or EXPLAIN ANALYZE included the cost of copying tuples from shared buffers to result sets? Could you experts share your views on this big gap? And any suggestions to optimise? P.S. In our original embeded DB a fastpath interface is provided to read directly from shared memory for the records, thus provides extremely realtime access (of course sacrifice some other features such as consistency). Best regards, Han -- Best regards, Han -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi, On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:19:00 AM Zhou Han wrote: I have tried unix domain socket and the performance is similar with TCP socket. It is MIPS architecture so memory copy to/from kernel can occupy much time, and apparently using unit domain socket has no difference than TCP in terms of memory copy. But it is still unbelievable for the ten-fold gap between the client side statistic and the server side statistics. So I want to know what exactly the operations are involved in the server side statistics in EXPLAIN ANALYZE. May I check the code later on when I get time. My guess is that the time difference youre seing is actually the planning time. The timing shown at the end of EXPLAIN ANALYZE is just the execution, not the planning time. You can use \timing on in psql to let it display timing information that include planning. Whats the query? For the query itself, it was just for performance comparison. There are other index based queries, which are of course much faster, but still result in similar ten-fold of time gap between client side and server side statistics. I am thinking of non-kernel involved client interface, is there such an option, or do I have to develop one from scratch? Its unlikely thats possible in a sensible amount of time. But I don't think thats your problem anyway. Andres -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi Andres, May you missed my first post, and I paste it here again: In our environment sequential scanning (select * from ...) for a table with tens of thousands of record costs 1 - 2 seconds, regardless of using ODBC driver or the timing result shown in psql client (which in turn, relies on libpq). However, using EXPLAIN ANALYZE, or checking the statistics in pg_stat_statement view, the query costs only less than 100ms. Has the pg_stat_statement or EXPLAIN ANALYZE included the cost of copying tuples from shared buffers to result sets? Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: Hi, On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:19:00 AM Zhou Han wrote: I have tried unix domain socket and the performance is similar with TCP socket. It is MIPS architecture so memory copy to/from kernel can occupy much time, and apparently using unit domain socket has no difference than TCP in terms of memory copy. But it is still unbelievable for the ten-fold gap between the client side statistic and the server side statistics. So I want to know what exactly the operations are involved in the server side statistics in EXPLAIN ANALYZE. May I check the code later on when I get time. My guess is that the time difference youre seing is actually the planning time. The timing shown at the end of EXPLAIN ANALYZE is just the execution, not the planning time. You can use \timing on in psql to let it display timing information that include planning. Whats the query? For the query itself, it was just for performance comparison. There are other index based queries, which are of course much faster, but still result in similar ten-fold of time gap between client side and server side statistics. I am thinking of non-kernel involved client interface, is there such an option, or do I have to develop one from scratch? Its unlikely thats possible in a sensible amount of time. But I don't think thats your problem anyway. Andres -- Best regards, Han -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi, To be more specific, I list my calculation here: The timing shown in psql may include: plan + execution + copying to result set in backend (does this step exist?) + transferring data to client via socket. Then I want to know what's the time shown in pg_stat_statement and EXPLAIN ANALYZE in terms of the above mentioned parts. And why are the gap is almost 10 times (100 ms v.s. 1 second)? As a comparison, transferring same amount of data with unix domain socket should cost only a very small fraction of this (almost negligible), according to my other performance tests. And I don't think the plan time plays an important role here in EXPLAIN ANALYZE, because the command itself costs similar time to the Total runtime as shown in psql (timing on), which means the plan is too simple to take any significant part of time in this case. Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Han Zhou zhou...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Andres, May you missed my first post, and I paste it here again: In our environment sequential scanning (select * from ...) for a table with tens of thousands of record costs 1 - 2 seconds, regardless of using ODBC driver or the timing result shown in psql client (which in turn, relies on libpq). However, using EXPLAIN ANALYZE, or checking the statistics in pg_stat_statement view, the query costs only less than 100ms. Has the pg_stat_statement or EXPLAIN ANALYZE included the cost of copying tuples from shared buffers to result sets? Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: Hi, On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:19:00 AM Zhou Han wrote: I have tried unix domain socket and the performance is similar with TCP socket. It is MIPS architecture so memory copy to/from kernel can occupy much time, and apparently using unit domain socket has no difference than TCP in terms of memory copy. But it is still unbelievable for the ten-fold gap between the client side statistic and the server side statistics. So I want to know what exactly the operations are involved in the server side statistics in EXPLAIN ANALYZE. May I check the code later on when I get time. My guess is that the time difference youre seing is actually the planning time. The timing shown at the end of EXPLAIN ANALYZE is just the execution, not the planning time. You can use \timing on in psql to let it display timing information that include planning. Whats the query? For the query itself, it was just for performance comparison. There are other index based queries, which are of course much faster, but still result in similar ten-fold of time gap between client side and server side statistics. I am thinking of non-kernel involved client interface, is there such an option, or do I have to develop one from scratch? Its unlikely thats possible in a sensible amount of time. But I don't think thats your problem anyway. Andres -- Best regards, Han -- Best regards, Han -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:33:13 PM Han Zhou wrote: Hi, To be more specific, I list my calculation here: The timing shown in psql may include: plan + execution + copying to result set in backend (does this step exist?) + transferring data to client via socket. Correct. Then I want to know what's the time shown in pg_stat_statement and EXPLAIN ANALYZE in terms of the above mentioned parts. And why are the gap is almost 10 times (100 ms v.s. 1 second)? As a comparison, transferring same amount of data with unix domain socket should cost only a very small fraction of this (almost negligible), according to my other performance tests. Yea, you proved my quick theory wrong. And I don't think the plan time plays an important role here in EXPLAIN ANALYZE, because the command itself costs similar time to the Total runtime as shown in psql (timing on), which means the plan is too simple to take any significant part of time in this case. Sounds like that. It would be interesting to see the time difference between: COPY (SELECT * FROM blub) TO '/tmp/somefile'; COPY (SELECT * FROM blub) TO '/tmp/somefile' BINARY; EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT * FROM blub; Andres -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
[PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi, Forward my question here. Best regards, Han -- Forwarded message -- From: Zhou Han zhou...@gmail.com Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics To: Amit Kapila amit.kap...@huawei.com Cc: pgsql-hack...@postgresql.org Hi, I have tried unix domain socket and the performance is similar with TCP socket. It is MIPS architecture so memory copy to/from kernel can occupy much time, and apparently using unit domain socket has no difference than TCP in terms of memory copy. But it is still unbelievable for the ten-fold gap between the client side statistic and the server side statistics. So I want to know what exactly the operations are involved in the server side statistics in EXPLAIN ANALYZE. May I check the code later on when I get time. For the query itself, it was just for performance comparison. There are other index based queries, which are of course much faster, but still result in similar ten-fold of time gap between client side and server side statistics. I am thinking of non-kernel involved client interface, is there such an option, or do I have to develop one from scratch? Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Amit Kapila amit.kap...@huawei.com wrote: So, is it client interface (ODBC, libpq) 's cost mainly due to TCP? ** ** The difference as compare to your embedded DB you are seeing is mainly seems to be due to TCP. One optimization you can use is to use Unix-domain socket mode of PostgreSQL. You can refer unix_socket_directory parameter in postgresql.conf and other related parameters. I am suggesting you this as earlier you were using embedded DB, so your client/server should be on same machine. If now this is not the case then it will not work. ** ** Can you please clarify some more things like **1. **After doing sequence scan, do you need all the records in client for which seq. scan is happening. If less records then why you have not created index. **2. **What is exact scenario for fetching records ** ** ** ** ** ** * pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org [mailto: pgsql-hackers-ow...@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Zhou Han Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:30 AM To: pgsql-hack...@postgresql.org Subject: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics* ** ** Hi, I am checking a performance problem encountered after porting old embeded DB to postgreSQL. While the system is real-time sensitive, we are concerning for per-query cost. In our environment sequential scanning (select * from ...) for a table with tens of thousands of record costs 1 - 2 seconds, regardless of using ODBC driver or the timing result shown in psql client (which in turn, relies on libpq). However, using EXPLAIN ANALYZE, or checking the statistics in pg_stat_statement view, the query costs only less than 100ms. rface (ODBC, libpq) 's cost mainly due to TCP? Has the pg_stat_statement or EXPLAIN ANALYZE included the cost of copying tuples from shared buffers to result sets? Could you experts share your views on this big gap? And any suggestions to optimise? P.S. In our original embeded DB a fastpath interface is provided to read directly from shared memory for the records, thus provides extremely realtime access (of course sacrifice some other features such as consistency). Best regards, Han
Re: [PERFORM] Fwd: [HACKERS] client performance v.s. server statistics
Hi Andres, Good hint! DBRNWHSB=# COPY (SELECT * FROM my_large) TO '/tmp/somefile'; COPY 73728 Time: 1405.976 ms DBRNWHSB=# COPY (SELECT * FROM my_large) TO '/tmp/somefile_binary' BINARY ; COPY 73728 Time: 840.987 ms DBRNWHSB=# EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT * FROM my_large; QUERY PLAN Seq Scan on my_large (cost=0.00..1723.78 rows=80678 width=59) (actual time=0.036..114.400 rows=73728 loops=1) Total runtime: 171.561 ms (2 rows) Time: 172.523 ms DBRNWHSB=# SELECT * FROM my_large; ... Time: 1513.274 ms In this test the record number is 73728, each with tens of bytes. The size of somefile is 5,455,872, and the size of somefile_binary is even more: 6,782,997. However, BINARY COPY to memory file costs lower, so it means something else, e.g. result preparing is taking CPU time. But even the BINARY COPY still takes much more time than the ANALYZE: 840ms v.s. 172ms. So I guess most time is spent in preparing + transferring result in backend, and this part of time is not counted in the ANALYZE or pg_stat_statement statistics. If this assumption is true, then is it possible to optimise towards the result preparing and transferring in backend? Or is there any bulk output operation already supported in some existing PostgreSQL options? Best regards, Han On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Andres Freund and...@anarazel.de wrote: On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:33:13 PM Han Zhou wrote: Hi, To be more specific, I list my calculation here: The timing shown in psql may include: plan + execution + copying to result set in backend (does this step exist?) + transferring data to client via socket. Correct. Then I want to know what's the time shown in pg_stat_statement and EXPLAIN ANALYZE in terms of the above mentioned parts. And why are the gap is almost 10 times (100 ms v.s. 1 second)? As a comparison, transferring same amount of data with unix domain socket should cost only a very small fraction of this (almost negligible), according to my other performance tests. Yea, you proved my quick theory wrong. And I don't think the plan time plays an important role here in EXPLAIN ANALYZE, because the command itself costs similar time to the Total runtime as shown in psql (timing on), which means the plan is too simple to take any significant part of time in this case. Sounds like that. It would be interesting to see the time difference between: COPY (SELECT * FROM blub) TO '/tmp/somefile'; COPY (SELECT * FROM blub) TO '/tmp/somefile' BINARY; EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT * FROM blub; Andres -- Best regards, Han -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
