Re: [Pharo-dev] Any idea for a cool name for the remote tool suite?

[James Ladd]

Try 
https://www.penn.museum/documents/education/pennmuseum_egypt_previsit_combined.pdf

Flail looks like a good candidate .

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 30 Jan 2017, at 11:06 am, Ben Coman  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 10:14 PM, stepharong  wrote:
>> Hi guys
>> 
>> Since we will push the remote tools (videos/web...) I would like to get some 
>> ideas for a cool name.
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> Because Pharmide (looks like medicine or chemical product).
>> Since I vaguely remember some german Pharmide made me think about 
>> Fern(sehen) but this is not a good name.
>> 
>> 
> 
> For a change, I'm lacking original ideas :P
> But of other suggestions, I like...
> 
> > Phresnel from Fresnel lenses [1] used in lighthouses to be visible over 
> > greater distances
> Good googability and a *great* fit for Pharo's lighthouse theme.
> There is one competing project https://github.com/lobid/Phresnel
> but it looks abandoned and ranks low in searches.
> 
> > PharoAfar 
> Except its a bit of a tongue twist and I'd shorten it to Pharofar, and maybe 
> Pharophar.
> far = at, to, or by a great distance
> 
> > Pharoscope from Pharo + Telescope 
> Related terms: borescope, oscilloscope, spectroscope.
> 
> So far Phresnel is my phavorite.
> 
> cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Help: Implementing core classes for Redline Smalltalk ...

[James Ladd]

Guile reached out to me and yes I'm looking st it as I am Cuis 

Thank you for the response 

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 24 Jan 2017, at 9:38 pm, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> have you seen the PharoCandle by Guille?
> 
> https://github.com/guillep/PharoCandle
> 
> -- Pavel
> 
> 2017-01-24 5:25 GMT+01:00 James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com>:
>> Hi Pharo People,
>> 
>> Redline Smalltalk is a Smalltalk for the Java Virtual Machine.
>> The compiler is 90% complete.
>> 
>> Would anyone like to help implement the core runtime classes?
>> No Java involved.
>> 
>> If you would like to lend a hand please email object at redline.st
>> 
>> - James.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://forum.world.st/Help-Implementing-core-classes-for-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4930536.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
> 

[Pharo-dev] Help: Implementing core classes for Redline Smalltalk ...

[James Ladd]

Hi Pharo People,

Redline Smalltalk is a Smalltalk for the Java Virtual Machine.
The compiler is 90% complete.

Would anyone like to help implement the core runtime classes?
No Java involved.

If you would like to lend a hand please email object at redline.st

- James.



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Help-Implementing-core-classes-for-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4930536.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] subexpression precedence

[James Ladd]

I think for Redline Smalltalk which is why I'm asking I'll make sure
my test subexpressions yield the same result as the same subexpressions on
Pharo :)

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Chris Muller  wrote:

> > Other than humans generally read from
>
> (pardon me)
>
> Other than that the code is read from left to right...
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] subexpression precedence

[James Ladd]

>>  a := b := c := d := 4

This one is straight forward but subexpressions, those with () around them
are the topic.



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Chris Muller  wrote:

> > Wow, I just skimmed the messages section in the blue book and you're
> right.  I think this is an omission and that it should be specified that
> keyword message receiver and arguments are evaluated strictly
> left-to-right.  I don't know of a Smalltalk implementation that doesn't
> evaluate in this order.
>
> This doesn't sound right.  I don't know whether I can dig out a
> reference quickly or not, but I learned that precedence *within* the [
> unary -> binary -> keyword ] is actually right to left, not left to
> right.
>
>   a := b := c := d := 4
>
> executes right-to-left.  Other than humans generally read from
> left-to-right, are there other reasons it should run left-to-right in
> other contexts?
>
>

[Pharo-dev] subexpression precedence

[James Ladd]

Hi Pharo People,

I know Smalltalk has precedence rules when subexpressions () are involved.

2 + (  (3 * 4) - 1  )
evaluated last (   (evaluated first)  evaluated second  )

That is the inner most subexpression is evaluated first.

Given the following made up expression for the purposes of my question:

self at: (self offset) - 1 put: (2 * (12 / 4)).

Are there precedence rules for the subexpressions that are part of the
keyword expression?
ie: Should (self offset) - 1 be evaluated before (2 * (12 / 4)).

My thinking is that with keywords the arguments are evaluated left to right
- that is 
at: before put: but within each the regular subexpression precedence
applies?

- James.






--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/subexpression-precedence-tp4929398.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Ben,

That certainly is an approach.

One key goal for Redline is for people using Java to be able to use their 
debugging tools and step from Java code into Smalltalk, and if that Smalltalk 
code calls other Java code then step into that code.

Redline generates 100% compatible bytecode and class files (in memory) making 
this possible 

Redline also supports the generation of inline bytecode so no primitives just 
the equivalent Jvm bytecode 

- James

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 2 Jan 2017, at 3:46 am, Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:53 AM, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is very helpful thank you.
>> 
>> Maybe I can rephrase things to help capture what I'm trying to do.
>> 
>> In the Smalltalk-80 blue book there is a set of Kernel-Object/Kernel-Classes 
>> defined and I'm trying to find a full running implementation of these 
>> classes in a Smalltalk environment OR recreate
> 
> 
> Just my wandering mind an interesting experiment might be running
> SqueakJS [1]
> on top JVM8's Nashorn javascript engine [2][3], and then gradually
> converting parts to it to native Java code as profiling dictates.
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> 
> [1] http://freudenbergs.de/bert/publications/Freudenberg-2014-SqueakJS.pdf
> [2] https://ariya.io/2014/03/nashorn-the-new-rhino-on-the-block
> [3] https://www.infoq.com/articles/nashorn
> 
> ---
> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 5:14 PM, philippe.b...@highoctane.be
> <philippe.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Isn't there a typo in the first expression?
> 
> I've looked but don't see it.  btw the first '$' is the shell prompt,
> the second '$' is a variable holding the vm location, since my
> download of bootstrap.image wasn't located under pharolauncher.
> 
> But I do notice the second expression should have been...
> $  $PHARO bootstrap.image eval "Object class allSubclasses size"
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Stef,

That is very useful.
I'd certainly like to see code written w Pharo running on Redline :)

- James 

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 1 Jan 2017, at 1:21 am, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> Nice to hear that you are still pushing. I would love to be able to developed 
> in Pharo and deployed on red. 
> Noury is working on the same scenario for PharoJS. 
> 
> May be we should organise a skype with Guille because we can use his 
> infrastructure (hespel) to create out of Pharo automatically 
> a kernel for Red. 
> 
> Guille has an infrastructure Hespel (check his phd) to 
> - bootstrap different kernels such as Candlelight, microsqueak.. 
> - tailor application (you give a seed expression and it collects all the 
> mandatory methods and classes) probably like spoon
> 
> He bootstrapped different small kernels during his phd. 
> In tornado the tailoring version of Hespel we can create imae that are as 
> small as 12k :)
> 
> We put a list of the class in a techreport. https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00996908
> 
> In Pharo 70 we will use in production a bootstrap kernel: basically Pharo 
> core with some better handled mechanisms (such as the startup)
> We should remove the traits from class/metaclasses to gain some space. 
> Now our goal for this version is not to have the smallest core but a full 
> process based on a bootstrap image. 
> We shuffled/repackaged many classes around and we will continue to cut 
> spurious dependencies. 
> 
> Stef
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 12:50 PM, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll check it out.
>> The version I remember was black n white.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Commodore 64
>> 
>> > On 31 Dec 2016, at 9:04 pm, Stefan Marr <smallt...@stefan-marr.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi James:
>> >
>> >> On 30 Dec 2016, at 22:50, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I even tried to find the old Potatoe Smalltalk which was a port of an old 
>> >> Smalltalk-80 image as it had a working ide and yet the smallest count of 
>> >> classes.
>> >
>> > Did you find it?
>> > https://news.squeak.org/2008/07/07/potato-version-of-jsqueak-from-hpi/
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > Stefan
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Stefan Marr
>> > Johannes Kepler Universität Linz
>> > http://stefan-marr.de/research/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Let's do that Stef
Jamesladd67 is my Skype

Thank you so much 

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 1 Jan 2017, at 1:21 am, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> Nice to hear that you are still pushing. I would love to be able to developed 
> in Pharo and deployed on red. 
> Noury is working on the same scenario for PharoJS. 
> 
> May be we should organise a skype with Guille because we can use his 
> infrastructure (hespel) to create out of Pharo automatically 
> a kernel for Red. 
> 
> Guille has an infrastructure Hespel (check his phd) to 
> - bootstrap different kernels such as Candlelight, microsqueak.. 
> - tailor application (you give a seed expression and it collects all the 
> mandatory methods and classes) probably like spoon
> 
> He bootstrapped different small kernels during his phd. 
> In tornado the tailoring version of Hespel we can create imae that are as 
> small as 12k :)
> 
> We put a list of the class in a techreport. https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00996908
> 
> In Pharo 70 we will use in production a bootstrap kernel: basically Pharo 
> core with some better handled mechanisms (such as the startup)
> We should remove the traits from class/metaclasses to gain some space. 
> Now our goal for this version is not to have the smallest core but a full 
> process based on a bootstrap image. 
> We shuffled/repackaged many classes around and we will continue to cut 
> spurious dependencies. 
> 
> Stef
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 12:50 PM, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll check it out.
>> The version I remember was black n white.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Commodore 64
>> 
>> > On 31 Dec 2016, at 9:04 pm, Stefan Marr <smallt...@stefan-marr.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi James:
>> >
>> >> On 30 Dec 2016, at 22:50, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I even tried to find the old Potatoe Smalltalk which was a port of an old 
>> >> Smalltalk-80 image as it had a working ide and yet the smallest count of 
>> >> classes.
>> >
>> > Did you find it?
>> > https://news.squeak.org/2008/07/07/potato-version-of-jsqueak-from-hpi/
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > Stefan
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Stefan Marr
>> > Johannes Kepler Universität Linz
>> > http://stefan-marr.de/research/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

I'll check it out.
The version I remember was black n white.


Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 31 Dec 2016, at 9:04 pm, Stefan Marr <smallt...@stefan-marr.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi James:
> 
>> On 30 Dec 2016, at 22:50, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I even tried to find the old Potatoe Smalltalk which was a port of an old 
>> Smalltalk-80 image as it had a working ide and yet the smallest count of 
>> classes.
> 
> Did you find it?
> https://news.squeak.org/2008/07/07/potato-version-of-jsqueak-from-hpi/
> 
> Best regards
> Stefan
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stefan Marr
> Johannes Kepler Universität Linz
> http://stefan-marr.de/research/
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

I have been looking at Amber :)

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 31 Dec 2016, at 6:26 am, philippe.b...@highoctane.be 
> <philippe.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Amber took a bunch of classes and this could be a nice starting point for 
> fundamentals.
> 
> Phil
> 
> Le 30 déc. 2016 18:14, "Ben Coman" <b...@openinworld.com> a écrit :
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 7:51 AM, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Pharo People,
>> >
>> > I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
>> > the absolute minimum
>> > set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
>> >
>> > Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>> >
>> > - James.
>> > Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>
>> 
>> Nice to hear you are continuing.
>> I'm not very knowledgable on this, but I'll show you how to pull some
>> data from the work on producing a minimal image.
>> 
>> 1. From PharoLauncher > Templates > Pharo 6.0(beta)
>> download/create an image of build "60334-minimal".
>> 2. Right-click on the image and choose [Copy pathname]
>> 3. In a shell, change to that directory, and execute the following
>> $ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object allSubclasses 
>> size"
>> ==> 2801
>> $ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object class
>> allSubclasses size"
>> ==> 1399.
>> $ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object class
>> printHierarchy" > /tmp/60334-minimal-class-hierarchy.txt
>> 
>> I've attached the output of that last one.
>> 
>> 4. For comparison, in a standard 60334 image,
>> Object allSubclasses size "==>11923".
>> Object class allSubclasses size "==>5959".
>> 
>> Now in Pharo 6, the minimal image starts with a standard image and
>> strips these things out...
>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Update-Step-3.2-Minimal/ws/output.txt
>> 
>> In Pharo 7, there will be a new build system that it will start with a
>> minimal image and build it up to a normal image.  So this may provide
>> a better way to understand the order that things need to be
>> implemented.
>> 
>> cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

This is very helpful thank you.

Maybe I can rephrase things to help capture what I'm trying to do.

In the Smalltalk-80 blue book there is a set of Kernel-Object/Kernel-Classes 
defined and I'm trying to find a full running implementation of these classes 
in a Smalltalk environment OR recreate 

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 31 Dec 2016, at 4:13 am, Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 7:51 AM, James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Pharo People,
>> 
>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
>> the absolute minimum
>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
>> 
>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>> 
>> - James.
>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>
> 
> Nice to hear you are continuing.
> I'm not very knowledgable on this, but I'll show you how to pull some
> data from the work on producing a minimal image.
> 
> 1. From PharoLauncher > Templates > Pharo 6.0(beta)
>download/create an image of build "60334-minimal".
> 2. Right-click on the image and choose [Copy pathname]
> 3. In a shell, change to that directory, and execute the following
>$ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object allSubclasses size"
>==> 2801
>$ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object class
> allSubclasses size"
>==> 1399.
>$ ../../VMs/spur/pharo 60334-minimal.image eval "Object class
> printHierarchy" > /tmp/60334-minimal-class-hierarchy.txt
> 
> I've attached the output of that last one.
> 
> 4. For comparison, in a standard 60334 image,
>Object allSubclasses size "==>11923".
>Object class allSubclasses size "==>5959".
> 
> Now in Pharo 6, the minimal image starts with a standard image and
> strips these things out...
> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Update-Step-3.2-Minimal/ws/output.txt
> 
> In Pharo 7, there will be a new build system that it will start with a
> minimal image and build it up to a normal image.  So this may provide
> a better way to understand the order that things need to be
> implemented.
> 
> cheers -ben
> <60334-minimal-class-hierarchy.txt>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

application). 
>> 
>> There was a cool idea from a presentation a Smalltalker once gave about 
>> moving a DigiTalk implementation to JVM whithout changing a thing inside the 
>> image. Instead they ported the bytecode from smalltalk to JVM and used JNI 
>> for the C libraries. Sound too good to be true, they supposed to release it 
>> open source ages ago but that turned out to be another vaporware. 
>> 
>> I also agree that Cuis is a very good start to find the most essential 
>> libraries for Pharo. There is also a minimal image for pharo on the dowload 
>> section of the website which should give a good idea. But as it is to be 
>> expected its impossible to predict what is essential for each Pharo user and 
>> there lies the challenge. 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 1:59 PM Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
>>> Actually I think James is on to something and we should try and support him.
>>> 
>>> Having recently played with AWS Lambda and written a few Alexa services in 
>>> JS,  I was intrigued how you would approach such end points in Smalltalk 
>>> and whether it would be a productive language and environment to run them 
>>> in. (Btw - the lambda environment is very interesting - scalable 
>>> infrastructure that is peanuts to run).
>>> 
>>> To try this, the basic building blocks provided by these services are 
>>> either JS or Java - so for Smalltalkers that sounds like Smalltalk running 
>>> on Amber or Redline.
>>> 
>>> I find Amber and all the JS infrastructure very daunting - gulp, amd etc. 
>>> And for Lambda you also get caught into this world of package management 
>>> and loading up JS dependencies.
>>> 
>>> I'm intrigued how a jvm Smalltalk might approach this problem (as well as 
>>> many others I'm sure). We seem to achieve a lot with quite a small image of 
>>> building blocks.
>>> 
>>> As pharo is a research community, can we help James explore this a bit 
>>> more? Certainly there is a drive to a minimal Smalltalk image - so that 
>>> work can immediately feed into this.
>>> 
>>> To add to the research'y side context - these service infrastructures seem 
>>> to feel a lot like callable blocks of code. We are used to thinking in this 
>>> way in our image - we use blocks everywhere. How might they run in a 
>>> scaleable environment vs straight function call languages?
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 30 Dec 2016, at 09:31, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think what most people would want is to use Java libraries from inside 
>>>> Pharo. You seem to want to bring Pharo classes to Redline Runtime .
>>>> 
>>>> I have the opposite idea of bringing Redline Runtime inside Pharo and give 
>>>> us Pharo developers an easy way to use Java libraries and mix pharo with 
>>>> java code. I think also Pharo would serve great as an IDE for Redline 
>>>> Smalltalk. 
>>>> 
>>>> I already have JNIPort thats does that but none will complain to have 
>>>> another tool around, I am sure it will come very handy. 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:08 AM James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Pharo People,
>>>> 
>>>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
>>>> the absolute minimum
>>>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
>>>> 
>>>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>>>> 
>>>> - James.
>>>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: 
>>>> http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html
>>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at 
>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

 the JS infrastructure very daunting - gulp, amd etc. 
>> And for Lambda you also get caught into this world of package management and 
>> loading up JS dependencies.
>> 
>> I'm intrigued how a jvm Smalltalk might approach this problem (as well as 
>> many others I'm sure). We seem to achieve a lot with quite a small image of 
>> building blocks.
>> 
>> As pharo is a research community, can we help James explore this a bit more? 
>> Certainly there is a drive to a minimal Smalltalk image - so that work can 
>> immediately feed into this.
>> 
>> To add to the research'y side context - these service infrastructures seem 
>> to feel a lot like callable blocks of code. We are used to thinking in this 
>> way in our image - we use blocks everywhere. How might they run in a 
>> scaleable environment vs straight function call languages?
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 30 Dec 2016, at 09:31, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think what most people would want is to use Java libraries from inside 
>>> Pharo. You seem to want to bring Pharo classes to Redline Runtime .
>>> 
>>> I have the opposite idea of bringing Redline Runtime inside Pharo and give 
>>> us Pharo developers an easy way to use Java libraries and mix pharo with 
>>> java code. I think also Pharo would serve great as an IDE for Redline 
>>> Smalltalk. 
>>> 
>>> I already have JNIPort thats does that but none will complain to have 
>>> another tool around, I am sure it will come very handy. 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:08 AM James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Pharo People,
>>> 
>>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
>>> the absolute minimum
>>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
>>> 
>>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>>> 
>>> - James.
>>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Hi Tim,

Thank you for the support.

With Redline you will be able to deploy Smalltalk to AWS Lambda 

Smalltalk source can be packaged into a STar (Smalltalk archive) which is 
actually a Java jar and deployed.

See jaws-maven-plugin for an approach to getting Java code deployed easily as a 
Lambda 

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On 30 Dec 2016, at 10:25 pm, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote:
> 
> Actually I think James is on to something and we should try and support him.
> 
> Having recently played with AWS Lambda and written a few Alexa services in 
> JS,  I was intrigued how you would approach such end points in Smalltalk and 
> whether it would be a productive language and environment to run them in. 
> (Btw - the lambda environment is very interesting - scalable infrastructure 
> that is peanuts to run).
> 
> To try this, the basic building blocks provided by these services are either 
> JS or Java - so for Smalltalkers that sounds like Smalltalk running on Amber 
> or Redline.
> 
> I find Amber and all the JS infrastructure very daunting - gulp, amd etc. And 
> for Lambda you also get caught into this world of package management and 
> loading up JS dependencies.
> 
> I'm intrigued how a jvm Smalltalk might approach this problem (as well as 
> many others I'm sure). We seem to achieve a lot with quite a small image of 
> building blocks.
> 
> As pharo is a research community, can we help James explore this a bit more? 
> Certainly there is a drive to a minimal Smalltalk image - so that work can 
> immediately feed into this.
> 
> To add to the research'y side context - these service infrastructures seem to 
> feel a lot like callable blocks of code. We are used to thinking in this way 
> in our image - we use blocks everywhere. How might they run in a scaleable 
> environment vs straight function call languages?
> 
> Tim
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 30 Dec 2016, at 09:31, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think what most people would want is to use Java libraries from inside 
>> Pharo. You seem to want to bring Pharo classes to Redline Runtime .
>> 
>> I have the opposite idea of bringing Redline Runtime inside Pharo and give 
>> us Pharo developers an easy way to use Java libraries and mix pharo with 
>> java code. I think also Pharo would serve great as an IDE for Redline 
>> Smalltalk. 
>> 
>> I already have JNIPort thats does that but none will complain to have 
>> another tool around, I am sure it will come very handy. 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:08 AM James Ladd <ladd.ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Pharo People,
>>> 
>>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
>>> the absolute minimum
>>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
>>> 
>>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>>> 
>>> - James.
>>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Monty I'll have a look at Cuis thanks

Sent from my Commodore 64

On 30 Dec 2016, at 9:16 pm, monty <mon...@programmer.net> wrote:

>> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 6:51 PM
>> From: "James Ladd" <ladd.ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
>> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...
>> 
>> Hi Pharo People,
>> 
>> I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
> 
> Nice to hear Redline is still under development.
> 
>> the absolute minimum 
>> set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.
> 
> Have you looked at Cuis?
> 
>> Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?
>> 
>> - James.
>> Redline Smalltalk <http://redline.st>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
>> 
> 

[Pharo-dev] Redline: Talking Runtime basics ...

[James Ladd]

Hi Pharo People,

I have continued work on Redline Smalltalk and I'm wanting to discuss what
the absolute minimum 
set of Classes and method should be included in the Redline Runtime.

Would anyone here like to participate in that discussion?

- James.
Redline Smalltalk   



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Redline-Talking-Runtime-basics-tp4928375.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.