Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Goubier Thierry wrote:

>
>
> Le 04/10/2013 14:14, Tudor Girba a écrit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry > > wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tudor,
>>
>> I found your visualisation very interesting, and wondered about one
>> thing linked to your blog post and if I got it right.
>>
>> The visualisation you're showing is able to show, at the single
>> class level, if a class is more or less regular (i.e. tidy == well
>> designed?) but you show that it will loose very shortly it's tidy
>> shape if the classes it joins to are added to the visualisation. And
>> I wondered if this was a choice on the graph layout algorithm you've
>> choosen, i.e. that maintaining the tidiness of the class could be
>> done with a different layout algorithm? Maybe one which has a
>> measure of tidiness of the class at the local level, and weight it
>> against the position and attraction of its links to the other
>> components in the application?
>>
>>
>> My argumentation is that if we look at a class isolated it will have a
>> certain shape, and because we are exposed to this view (the IDE is
>> always showing me only that) all the time we will optimize it such that
>> the shape is tidy. But if we look at the class in the context of its
>> interactions the shape will be less recognizable. The chosen layout is a
>> very simple one, and the goal is not to say whether the structure is
>> good or bad. This is neither good nor bad. It simply argues how steering
>> the architecture has to take these forces into account.
>>
>
> Hum, my point would be that a locally well designed class is a factor to
> strive for; also that the overall architecture has it's impact on it as
> well, but not so as to so easily erase the local good property when looking
> at the visualisation, otherwise the latter may not end up so usefull,
> that's all.
>
> I do agree with your point, I just believe the layout could carry a bit
> more insight in trying to both show the local property the code was trying
> to achieve (and areas where it failed) and the "emergence" of the
> architecture coupling on it. Your representation seemed to imply that local
> good design is unimportant in the architectural view, and I'm sure this is
> not what it is supposed to convey.


There are many visualizations that try to capture good and bad, but I
distinctly did not want the visualization to be about this. It is about how
context changes the shape. As a consequence, architecture does not exist
without the context, and as the context evolves in millions of little ways,
so does architecture. Constantly. That is all.

The main goal is to support technical people argue when discussing with
managers, rather than necessarily having a say about the value.

But, here is a challenge: would you like to play with it and propose a
different approach? Btw, the current implementation has 19 lines :).


> In the mean time, I'm slowly discovering we have amazing software
>> architecture visualisation tools :)
>>
>>
>> They really are amazing :). If you want to get more information about
>> it, you can join the Moose mailing list:
>> http://www.moosetechnology.**org/about/contact
>>
>
> I'll do once I have a strong/practical incentive :) I know its there,
> Stéphane showed a lot of interesting things in it when he came here, but I
> didn't managed to organize things around that subject.
>
>
>  Would really like to setup a project on that if I get the chance.
>>
>>
>> What do you mean? What kind of a project?
>>
>
> Collaborative R or R&D project :) Only way I can justify working on
> something like that...
>
> A good fit would be visualisation of large software in my lab expertise
> area : high performance and real time massively parallel software on
> embedded systems.


Perhaps you can get some inspiration of places to use Moose in on the
humane-assessment.com site. In particular, on the blog I try to offer
examples and stories for how assessment should change the face of
development :).

Cheers,
Doru


Thierry
>
> --
> Thierry Goubier
> CEA list
> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
> France
> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Goubier Thierry]

Le 04/10/2013 14:14, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Hi,


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry mailto:thierry.goub...@cea.fr>> wrote:

Hi Tudor,

I found your visualisation very interesting, and wondered about one
thing linked to your blog post and if I got it right.

The visualisation you're showing is able to show, at the single
class level, if a class is more or less regular (i.e. tidy == well
designed?) but you show that it will loose very shortly it's tidy
shape if the classes it joins to are added to the visualisation. And
I wondered if this was a choice on the graph layout algorithm you've
choosen, i.e. that maintaining the tidiness of the class could be
done with a different layout algorithm? Maybe one which has a
measure of tidiness of the class at the local level, and weight it
against the position and attraction of its links to the other
components in the application?


My argumentation is that if we look at a class isolated it will have a
certain shape, and because we are exposed to this view (the IDE is
always showing me only that) all the time we will optimize it such that
the shape is tidy. But if we look at the class in the context of its
interactions the shape will be less recognizable. The chosen layout is a
very simple one, and the goal is not to say whether the structure is
good or bad. This is neither good nor bad. It simply argues how steering
the architecture has to take these forces into account.


Hum, my point would be that a locally well designed class is a factor to 
strive for; also that the overall architecture has it's impact on it as 
well, but not so as to so easily erase the local good property when 
looking at the visualisation, otherwise the latter may not end up so 
usefull, that's all.


I do agree with your point, I just believe the layout could carry a bit 
more insight in trying to both show the local property the code was 
trying to achieve (and areas where it failed) and the "emergence" of the 
architecture coupling on it. Your representation seemed to imply that 
local good design is unimportant in the architectural view, and I'm sure 
this is not what it is supposed to convey.




In the mean time, I'm slowly discovering we have amazing software
architecture visualisation tools :)


They really are amazing :). If you want to get more information about
it, you can join the Moose mailing list:
http://www.moosetechnology.org/about/contact


I'll do once I have a strong/practical incentive :) I know its there, 
Stéphane showed a lot of interesting things in it when he came here, but 
I didn't managed to organize things around that subject.



Would really like to setup a project on that if I get the chance.


What do you mean? What kind of a project?


Collaborative R or R&D project :) Only way I can justify working on 
something like that...


A good fit would be visualisation of large software in my lab expertise 
area : high performance and real time massively parallel software on 
embedded systems.


Thierry
--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Goubier Thierry wrote:

> Hi Tudor,
>
> I found your visualisation very interesting, and wondered about one thing
> linked to your blog post and if I got it right.
>
> The visualisation you're showing is able to show, at the single class
> level, if a class is more or less regular (i.e. tidy == well designed?) but
> you show that it will loose very shortly it's tidy shape if the classes it
> joins to are added to the visualisation. And I wondered if this was a
> choice on the graph layout algorithm you've choosen, i.e. that maintaining
> the tidiness of the class could be done with a different layout algorithm?
> Maybe one which has a measure of tidiness of the class at the local level,
> and weight it against the position and attraction of its links to the other
> components in the application?
>

My argumentation is that if we look at a class isolated it will have a
certain shape, and because we are exposed to this view (the IDE is always
showing me only that) all the time we will optimize it such that the shape
is tidy. But if we look at the class in the context of its interactions the
shape will be less recognizable. The chosen layout is a very simple one,
and the goal is not to say whether the structure is good or bad. This is
neither good nor bad. It simply argues how steering the architecture has to
take these forces into account.

In the mean time, I'm slowly discovering we have amazing software
> architecture visualisation tools :)


They really are amazing :). If you want to get more information about it,
you can join the Moose mailing list:
http://www.moosetechnology.org/about/contact

Would really like to setup a project on that if I get the chance.
>

What do you mean? What kind of a project?

Cheers,
Doru


Regards,
>
> Thierry
>
> Le 03/10/2013 23:34, Tudor Girba a écrit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I built a new visualization that has two goals:
>>
>> 1. show how the architecture of a system is fluid rather than rigid.
>> 2. look good and serve as advertisement device for Moose, Roassal and
>> Pharo.
>>
>> A description of mainly point 1. can be found here:
>> http://www.humane-assessment.**com/blog/system-attraction/
>>
>> I already used it as a splash screen for a couple of presentations, and
>> it catches the eye.
>>
>> The code can be found in Moose, in a separate tiny FAMIXSystemAttraction
>> class. You can invoke it on any class group (note: it can take a long
>> time to render for large groups).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>>
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com 
>>
>>
>> "Every thing has its own flow"
>>
>
> --
> Thierry Goubier
> CEA list
> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
> France
> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Goubier Thierry]

Hi Tudor,

I found your visualisation very interesting, and wondered about one 
thing linked to your blog post and if I got it right.


The visualisation you're showing is able to show, at the single class 
level, if a class is more or less regular (i.e. tidy == well designed?) 
but you show that it will loose very shortly it's tidy shape if the 
classes it joins to are added to the visualisation. And I wondered if 
this was a choice on the graph layout algorithm you've choosen, i.e. 
that maintaining the tidiness of the class could be done with a 
different layout algorithm? Maybe one which has a measure of tidiness of 
the class at the local level, and weight it against the position and 
attraction of its links to the other components in the application?


In the mean time, I'm slowly discovering we have amazing software 
architecture visualisation tools :) Would really like to setup a project 
on that if I get the chance.


Regards,

Thierry

Le 03/10/2013 23:34, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Hi,

I built a new visualization that has two goals:

1. show how the architecture of a system is fluid rather than rigid.
2. look good and serve as advertisement device for Moose, Roassal and Pharo.

A description of mainly point 1. can be found here:
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/system-attraction/

I already used it as a splash screen for a couple of presentations, and
it catches the eye.

The code can be found in Moose, in a separate tiny FAMIXSystemAttraction
class. You can invoke it on any class group (note: it can take a long
time to render for large groups).

Cheers,
Doru

--
www.tudorgirba.com 

"Every thing has its own flow"


--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[roberto.mine...@usi.ch]

Cool! It really catches the eye, Doru!

On Oct 3, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Alexandre Bergel  wrote:

> I think this is the nicest looking visualization made so far with Roassal.
> Consider it for the next Roassal contest next year. 
> 
> Amazing job! Truly beautiful.
> 
> Alexandre
> 
> 
> On Oct 3, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Tudor Girba  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I built a new visualization that has two goals:
>> 
>> 1. show how the architecture of a system is fluid rather than rigid.
>> 2. look good and serve as advertisement device for Moose, Roassal and Pharo.
>> 
>> A description of mainly point 1. can be found here:
>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/system-attraction/
>> 
>> I already used it as a splash screen for a couple of presentations, and it 
>> catches the eye.
>> 
>> The code can be found in Moose, in a separate tiny FAMIXSystemAttraction 
>> class. You can invoke it on any class group (note: it can take a long time 
>> to render for large groups).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>> 
>> -- 
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>> 
>> "Every thing has its own flow"
> 
> -- 
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Alexandre Bergel]

I think this is the nicest looking visualization made so far with Roassal.
Consider it for the next Roassal contest next year. 

Amazing job! Truly beautiful.

Alexandre


On Oct 3, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Tudor Girba  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I built a new visualization that has two goals:
> 
> 1. show how the architecture of a system is fluid rather than rigid.
> 2. look good and serve as advertisement device for Moose, Roassal and Pharo.
> 
> A description of mainly point 1. can be found here:
> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/system-attraction/
> 
> I already used it as a splash screen for a couple of presentations, and it 
> catches the eye.
> 
> The code can be found in Moose, in a separate tiny FAMIXSystemAttraction 
> class. You can invoke it on any class group (note: it can take a long time to 
> render for large groups).
> 
> Cheers,
> Doru
> 
> -- 
> www.tudorgirba.com
> 
> "Every thing has its own flow"

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

[Pharo-dev] [ann] system attraction view

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

I built a new visualization that has two goals:

1. show how the architecture of a system is fluid rather than rigid.
2. look good and serve as advertisement device for Moose, Roassal and Pharo.

A description of mainly point 1. can be found here:
http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/system-attraction/

I already used it as a splash screen for a couple of presentations, and it
catches the eye.

The code can be found in Moose, in a separate tiny FAMIXSystemAttraction
class. You can invoke it on any class group (note: it can take a long time
to render for large groups).

Cheers,
Doru

-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"