Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
On 28 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action. Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :) +1 We need options, backups, alternatives, it is a free world, and nothing is set in stone. I'm not against options. I'm proposing to have a map and to be able to take decisions about options knowing what others are doing. Now if you do not want to know what we are doing internally then people should not cry if one day with discard works of somebody else because we planned and are working on something. So to me this is simple: you just say: I'm working on X with a 2 line description and this is it. Stef Cheers, Doru On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: stepharo wrote So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
I do not know may on the side of roadmap on github We can use markdown to have a readable format now it can be boring because linear Stef Le 29/3/15 20:15, Tudor Girba a écrit : Ok. So, where do we put this board? Cheers, Doru On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo steph...@free.fr mailto:steph...@free.fr wrote: On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo steph...@free.fr mailto:steph...@free.fr wrote: Hi guys I have a general comments. Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because example is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo. I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose. Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. And in general groups (like rmod too). We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January: - Spotter - Inspector/Playground - Chatter For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member). Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more. What I'm saying. Ok let me repeat it. Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something. About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for something in concurrence. I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of a guy coming to work with us. So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. For example starting 1 of april Franck will work on improving pretty printing Merwane will work on 3D and event touch Thomas will work on code review Cyril will work on pillar improvements Kevin on decompiler Julien on remote environment or new collection That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it. We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics to get exposure/feedback and ideas. Now we could just have one page with this information. On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. Because I would like to lower frustration. What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed? Doru. I'm not talking only about GT. Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating frustration. But this is ok for me. I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com http://www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow -- www.tudorgirba.com http://www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
Ok. So, where do we put this board? Cheers, Doru On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 7:15 PM, stepharo steph...@free.fr wrote: On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo steph...@free.fr wrote: Hi guys I have a general comments. Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because example is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo. I do not know. But having the visibility is what I propose. Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. And in general groups (like rmod too). We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January: - Spotter - Inspector/Playground - Chatter For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member). Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more. What I'm saying. Ok let me repeat it. Is that if we have a place where a guy can come and see the list of people working on different topics then he can know who to ask or pay attention when starting something. About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for something in concurrence. I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of a guy coming to work with us. So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. For example starting 1 of april Franck will work on improving pretty printing Merwane will work on 3D and event touch Thomas will work on code review Cyril will work on pillar improvements Kevin on decompiler Julien on remote environment or new collection That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. Indeed because it was not announced and I propose to have a better way to do it. We usually sak every student to do an announce to the mailing-list when they start to work on some topics to get exposure/feedback and ideas. Now we could just have one page with this information. On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. Because I would like to lower frustration. What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed? Doru. I'm not talking only about GT. Now I can keep the projects we are planning to work on for us and do not pay attention to people but it will be counterproductive and generating frustration. But this is ok for me. I just suggest that we get a page even on github with a list of topics and people + status Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
Merwane will work on 3D and event touch Glad to hear this! I guess this is related to what Pierre will do with the events. It would be great that Merwane will sync with us on this. What does he plan to do? Will he worked on top of Woden? Can we get in touch about this? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
stepharo wrote So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
On 28 Mar 2015, at 16:05, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action. Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :) +1 We need options, backups, alternatives, it is a free world, and nothing is set in stone. Cheers, Doru On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: stepharo wrote So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
Hi Stef, On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 8:52 AM, stepharo steph...@free.fr wrote: Hi guys I have a general comments. Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. I did not complain. I just noticed how several times there it was argued that something is imposed from GT onto Pharo and that because example is in a certain way only in GT it somehow plays a secondary importance. This implies that collectively, we reason about GT as being separate from Pharo. Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. And in general groups (like rmod too). We worked only on the things we announced since the PharoDays in January: - Spotter - Inspector/Playground - Chatter For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. You just get the news because it just happened days before the announcement of Uko. And this was not following a big master plan. It was a mere couple of hours of playing around with implementing more examples of how to use Spotter by Stefan Reichhart (the newest GT team member). Please look back, and you will notice that every significant feature that is released comes with a prominent description on http://humane-assessment.com. And along the way we also describe examples of how to use GT. I honestly do not know how to provide more. About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for something in concurrence. I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of a guy coming to work with us. So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. For example starting 1 of april Franck will work on improving pretty printing Merwane will work on 3D and event touch Thomas will work on code review Cyril will work on pillar improvements Kevin on decompiler Julien on remote environment or new collection That is welcome information, which was indeed opaque until now. On Tuesday we will organize a working session in Bern on the Pharo IDE with exactly the goal of supporting more exchange. So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. Because I would like to lower frustration. What is the concrete proposal? To send emails here when we know we are switching topics? We did that regarding GT and it seems to not be enough. What else is needed? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action. Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :) Cheers, Doru On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: stepharo wrote So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
the advantage of a roadmap is that allows people that can agree on principle on a specific kind of approach can work together as a team towards a common goal under the same project. People who cant find someone else to agree with them, or dont like the existing solutions can always follow their own path and create their own code. On other hand those kind of people can also benefit from a roadmap because a roadmap is always an attractive force for contributors. When I (used here generally not just to refer to me) know what your intention is with this code in the future , I will be far more willing to help you out if our goals are common. If not then roadmap can still be useful if I dont want our two projects , mine and yours to overlap. So a roadmap is a win win situation. And I dont even need to go into the advantages of planning ahead. On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Tudor Girba tu...@tudorgirba.com wrote: I think the fear that someone else might do something similar should not stop action. Having multiple solutions to choose from is a good thing :) Cheers, Doru On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com wrote: stepharo wrote So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. Thank you! This is great. I've also been hesitant to work on certain things (e.g. cleaning up Morphic events) because I didn't want to unintentionally overlap with someone else's work. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815753.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- www.tudorgirba.com Every thing has its own flow
Re: [Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
the advantage of a roadmap is that allows people that can agree on principle on a specific kind of approach can work together as a team towards a common goal under the same project. Yes! For example, with event handling, it's not so much that I didn't want to offer a cool alternative, but that in the limited time I have to work on it, I'd prefer to benefit from the extensive research and design decisions that no doubt have already been done as others have looked at the problem, instead of starting from scratch. Plus, there are plenty of other areas to occupy me that are not being worked on AFAIK. Also, it would also be a great way to document design decisions, both to align us now, and also for the future. One of the things that I often feel holding me back is that I have no idea what the design decisions were, and so fear that something important (e.g. flexibility, future extension, etc) may be lost by cleaning and simplifying. For example, when we created distinct WorldMorphs vs. PasteUpMorphs, we lost the ability to promote PasteUps to act as the world. How important was that? IDK. But I only realized after because the design was IMHO a bit unclear and AFAICT undocumented. - Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Improving-communication-and-roadmap-tp4815705p4815790.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
[Pharo-dev] Improving communication and roadmap
Hi guys I have a general comments. Doru in a recent email you complain that people may (and it was not the case) think that GT was out of Pharo. Now I think that the group does not mention clearly enough his plans. And in general groups (like rmod too). For example, we just get that there is a support for code critics. About the Quality Assistant of Yuriy I have been discussing regularly with him to make sure that I would not launch something that would compete with him and that I do not pay a student for something in concurrence. I discussed with Alberto student that should work on improving Ecompletion and I change the topic of a guy coming to work with us. So I would like to propose that we share a kind of board of announce on what people are doing. For example starting 1 of april Franck will work on improving pretty printing Merwane will work on 3D and event touch Thomas will work on code review Cyril will work on pillar improvements Kevin on decompiler Julien on remote environment or new collection So what do you think. For me I think that this is important. Because I would like to lower frustration. Stef
