Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
On Jun 1, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Jochen Riekhof wrote: Hi Stef... Thank you for the welcome and quick answer! you cannot anymore. We have not finished to curve it out and you trust us that if we remove it this is for good reasons. Sure I understand that cleanup is important to get a stable and maintainable platform. When I understand correctly this is one of the main goals of Pharo :-). let us say it like that but the goals of pharo is really to not just have one smalltalk but reconsider a lot of decisions. So like in house renovation, right we are just removing the old carpets :) The key point at the end is what is the smalltalk inspired system that we want to use in the next 20 years. However, regardless of implementation, the functionality delivered by projects is great. Are you planning something new in place of the old projects? like what because projects had so many facets: saving only one of the changeset and making sure that you lost your code? (For example my current main tool for work is Intellij IDEA (Java) and one of it's great features is the possibility to define multiple tasks per project, each with an own set of open files, breakpoints etc. Also you can associate such a task with a version control change-set So you can switch contexts with a click and immediately continue working on a task where you left it). This is a different story :) We would be really interested in a well done IDEA like system. Now we do not have the ressources to do it but if somebody start small and we will be happy to integrate and support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
+1 on missing projects. to do what? What is our plan to replace this functionality? which one exactly? Is the objection to the idea of projects in general, or just the Squeak implementation? I let you guess :) I found it absolutely priceless to have a world for each task at hand - each set up for a particular logical task, but having access to all the classes in the system. well I spent so many hours trying to work with projects for doing demos and my botinc book that I can tell you that they can really kill you. Do you know for example that when you save a project, only the last changeset is saved with it. Then what happen if in another project you change the exact same method? since changes do not record changes themselves but just the fact that they was a change you can be in funny situation. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. Lukas On 2 June 2010 08:46, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: +1 on missing projects. to do what? What is our plan to replace this functionality? which one exactly? Is the objection to the idea of projects in general, or just the Squeak implementation? I let you guess :) I found it absolutely priceless to have a world for each task at hand - each set up for a particular logical task, but having access to all the classes in the system. well I spent so many hours trying to work with projects for doing demos and my botinc book that I can tell you that they can really kill you. Do you know for example that when you save a project, only the last changeset is saved with it. Then what happen if in another project you change the exact same method? since changes do not record changes themselves but just the fact that they was a change you can be in funny situation. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Hash values
On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:04 32AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, Henrik Sperre Johansen wrote:
On 02.06.2010 00:15, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
Hi!
Apparently in Pharo 1.1, hash values may be greater than 4096. What is the
range of the hash values?
Cheers,
Alexandre
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Hash values could always be greater than 4096 :)
Identity hashes can't, but they are scaled in 1.1, to avoid bad clustering
That's not true. You may be surprised, but the value of #identityHash can be
any SmallInteger. Just try this:
{SmallInteger minVal. SmallInteger maxVal} collect: #identityHash.
Yeah, forgot about that one.
for objects not redefining hash.
Basically they're multiplied by 2^18, which gives the largest possible range
while still keeping all small integers.
See ProtoObjectidentityHash for details, old identityHash is now
basicIdentityHash.
This may cause compatibility problems for packages which implement custom
hashes or custom hashed collections. I think Magma will be affected by this,
though I didn't check the code.
Not sure why it ended up basicIdentity / identity instead of identity /
scaledIdentity, but that's true.
Cheers,
Henry
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Re: [Pharo-project] Hash values
Hi!
Apparently in Pharo 1.1, hash values may be greater than 4096. What is the
range of the hash values?
Cheers,
Alexandre
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Hash values could always be greater than 4096 :)
Identity hashes can't, but they are scaled in 1.1, to avoid bad clustering
That's not true. You may be surprised, but the value of #identityHash can be
any SmallInteger. Just try this:
{SmallInteger minVal. SmallInteger maxVal} collect: #identityHash.
Yeah, forgot about that one.
for objects not redefining hash.
Basically they're multiplied by 2^18, which gives the largest possible
range while still keeping all small integers.
See ProtoObjectidentityHash for details, old identityHash is now
basicIdentityHash.
This may cause compatibility problems for packages which implement custom
hashes or custom hashed collections. I think Magma will be affected by this,
though I didn't check the code.
Not sure why it ended up basicIdentity / identity instead of identity /
scaledIdentity, but that's true.
so what should we do in 1.2?
Stef
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Re: [Pharo-project] Hash values
I still think leaving identityHash alone and using scaledIdentityHash to
multiply by 2^18 is better for backwards compatibility. However, I do
not know how much of a problem changing identityHash will cause for
existing code. Something that has always bugged me about changing
identityHash is that (as far as I've seen) identityHash is typically
assumed to answer whatever bits are in the object header. I am not sure
introducing an exception in Pharo, or even changing the assumption that
has held for decades, is worth the benefit of changing identityHash.
On 6/2/10 0:44 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
Hi!
Apparently in Pharo 1.1, hash values may be greater than 4096. What is the
range of the hash values?
Cheers,
Alexandre
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Hash values could always be greater than 4096 :)
Identity hashes can't, but they are scaled in 1.1, to avoid bad clustering
That's not true. You may be surprised, but the value of #identityHash can be
any SmallInteger. Just try this:
{SmallInteger minVal. SmallInteger maxVal} collect: #identityHash.
Yeah, forgot about that one.
for objects not redefining hash.
Basically they're multiplied by 2^18, which gives the largest possible range
while still keeping all small integers.
See ProtoObjectidentityHash for details, old identityHash is now
basicIdentityHash.
This may cause compatibility problems for packages which implement custom
hashes or custom hashed collections. I think Magma will be affected by this,
though I didn't check the code.
Not sure why it ended up basicIdentity / identity instead of identity /
scaledIdentity, but that's true.
so what should we do in 1.2?
Stef
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[Pharo-project] MaskedTextMorph
Hello I implement MaskedTextMorph class for masked input fields. See attachment and class side example. Its just little class. I dont create separate package for it. Maybe somebody add it to some widgets package MaskedTextMorph.st Description: Binary data ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] [update 1.1] #11383
11383 - Issue 2496: FFI not loading due to Parser changes Issue 2495: Use cull: for ifNotNil: Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MaskedTextMorph
Thanks denis did you sign the license agreement? Please do. http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ We will be happy to integrate your changes (modulo UI people like it). Do make sure that this happens can you open a bug entry on http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/ Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: Hello I implement MaskedTextMorph class for masked input fields. See attachment and class side example. Its just little class. I dont create separate package for it. Maybe somebody add it to some widgets package MaskedTextMorph.st___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MaskedTextMorph
How I can sign license agreement? I add it to bug entry. 2010/6/2 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Thanks denis did you sign the license agreement? Please do. http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ We will be happy to integrate your changes (modulo UI people like it). Do make sure that this happens can you open a bug entry on http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/ Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: Hello I implement MaskedTextMorph class for masked input fields. See attachment and class side example. Its just little class. I dont create separate package for it. Maybe somebody add it to some widgets package MaskedTextMorph.st___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MaskedTextMorph
On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: How I can sign license agreement? I add it to bug entry. excellent 2010/6/2 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Thanks denis did you sign the license agreement? Please do. http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ - print it - fill it up - send it by mail to me with a nice stamp :) (you can also send a pdf). :) We will be happy to integrate your changes (modulo UI people like it). Do make sure that this happens can you open a bug entry on http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/ Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: Hello I implement MaskedTextMorph class for masked input fields. See attachment and class side example. Its just little class. I dont create separate package for it. Maybe somebody add it to some widgets package MaskedTextMorph.st___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active I prefer the blog, it makes some activity on the website. Yes it's not really active. The format I like is wine news, see http://www.winehq.org/wwn/362 as there's link to threads on mailing-list, shows progress community. Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:26 16AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? I'm not certain the audience of not interested in the discussion, but I'd like to know what progress is made is big enough to warrant it. I agree with Laurent the news blog is a more suitable medium for what you propose, if anyone has time to do writeups. Cheers, Henry ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Update on Morphic 3
GREAT WORK JUAN! the quality is superb! it's amazing to see Morphic3 in action! When can we get our hands on it? If you need any help/tester for the project i'm up to it! Fernando pd: just a minor remark on the web page: i think the pictures to the right and left should have a distinct label, explicitly distinguishing Morphic3 and the other rendering engine used. On Jun 1, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Juan Vuletich wrote: Hi Folks, I've updated the Morphic 3 stuff at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. I also want to thank publicly to Stef Ducasse and ESUG, as they are sponsoring Morphic 3 via the support your project program, described in http://www.esug.org/Promotion/Project . Thanks ESUG! Comments welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
For me I'm open to a lot of suggestions but at the end of the day is who can do it. Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:37 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active I prefer the blog, it makes some activity on the website. Yes it's not really active. The format I like is wine news, see http://www.winehq.org/wwn/362 as there's link to threads on mailing-list, shows progress community. sound goods. How do we use that? Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
I was just going to say the same. I have tons of images. Just duplicate an image and you have a new project. No need for a brittle mechanism inside the image. Cheers, Adrian On Jun 2, 2010, at 08:50 , Lukas Renggli wrote: I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. Lukas On 2 June 2010 08:46, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: +1 on missing projects. to do what? What is our plan to replace this functionality? which one exactly? Is the objection to the idea of projects in general, or just the Squeak implementation? I let you guess :) I found it absolutely priceless to have a world for each task at hand - each set up for a particular logical task, but having access to all the classes in the system. well I spent so many hours trying to work with projects for doing demos and my botinc book that I can tell you that they can really kill you. Do you know for example that when you save a project, only the last changeset is saved with it. Then what happen if in another project you change the exact same method? since changes do not record changes themselves but just the fact that they was a change you can be in funny situation. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MaskedTextMorph
Hi and welcome. In http://www.pharo-project.org/documentation/faq you can read the question: How can I contribute to Pharo? which links you to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute and http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/2010/03/how-to-contribute-to-pharo.html cheers Mariano On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: How I can sign license agreement? I add it to bug entry. excellent 2010/6/2 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Thanks denis did you sign the license agreement? Please do. http://pharo.gforge.inria.fr/licenseDocuments/ - print it - fill it up - send it by mail to me with a nice stamp :) (you can also send a pdf). :) We will be happy to integrate your changes (modulo UI people like it). Do make sure that this happens can you open a bug entry on http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/ Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:03 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: Hello I implement MaskedTextMorph class for masked input fields. See attachment and class side example. Its just little class. I dont create separate package for it. Maybe somebody add it to some widgets package MaskedTextMorph.st___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. I also want to thank publicly to Stef Ducasse and ESUG, as they are sponsoring Morphic 3 via the support your project program, described in http://www.esug.org/Promotion/Project . Thanks ESUG! Comments welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Hi Juan, This looks really exiting! How do you get the actual pixels drawn? Is this implemented in Smalltalk? Did you write primitives to do that? Are you using external libraries? How does it compare performance wise with the current rendering? Lukas On 2 June 2010 13:43, Juan Vuletich j...@jvuletich.org wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. I also want to thank publicly to Stef Ducasse and ESUG, as they are sponsoring Morphic 3 via the support your project program, described in http://www.esug.org/Promotion/Project . Thanks ESUG! Comments welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Rome Canvas to replace an ordinary canvas [Was: Re: Rendering fonts on OpenGL ]
Some news (sources at www.squeaksource.com/Athens): About having a first 'minimal' version, working with RomePluginCanvas and RomeReferenceCanvas, it seems to be ok. I retrieve the tests from Sophie and all are green. In romeDemo, I made a category with some working examples (using RomePluginCanvas and RomeRefrenceCanvas). However, There is still some primitive faillures for which I'm not able to do a lot of things: see for example RomeDemo class demoRotateWindow. Now about fonts, I thing the best is to rebuild all: a part of the code is using some Tweak specific classes, or other classes no longer present in Pharo. Morover I wonder why it is usefull to have a Rome-comon API for fonts (RomeFont), when pharo as already its own AbstractFont API ? fonts are just set to a canvas to draw strings. You can see an example using fonts in RomeDemo class demoRotateSophieLogo. From tweak, I only kept classes about CTransformCanvas, but I don't know what it is :) There is just a working example in RomeDemo. So maybe it could be removed (I think all the 'Athens-Tweak' category could be removed). So maybe at this point we could start to fix the API (?) 2010/5/24 Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com On 24 May 2010 22:11, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Ok. Let me start. Excellent I want to learn. And I will ask cyrille to read all that. The first things is that we should get Rome working then we fix the api. Rome/Athens adds variouls extension methods to classes which are involved with graphics. Here is one of them: GradientFillStyleinstallOnRomePluginCanvas: aCanvas | colorStops i | colorStops := WordArray new: colorRamp size * 3. i := 0. colorRamp do: [:stop | colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. radial == true ifTrue: [ aCanvas primFillRadialGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat y: origin y asFloat directionX: direction x asFloat y: direction y asFloat normalX: self normal x asFloat y: self normal y asFloat colorStops: colorStops] ifFalse: [ aCanvas primFillLinearGradientOriginX: origin x asFloat y: origin y asFloat directionX: direction x asFloat y: direction y asFloat colorStops: colorStops] Good: - a conversion method is context sensitive (it takes a canvas as an argument) Bad: - this conversion method will work only for Rome plugin and nothing else. how to you see that? Well, consider this: colorRamp do: [:stop | colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: (stop key * 65536.0) rounded. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateRGB. colorStops at: (i:=i+1) put: stop value privateAlpha]. most likely, this will be inappropriate for anything else than RomePlugin. While, of course each kind of canvas could implement own #primFillLinearGradientOriginX: y:directionX: y: colorStops: except that it should not be a prim, and then it will waste time converting color stops again - into a form, which fits best for its own needs. So, why using 2 conversions, where 1 is enough? :) In same way, #asFloat may be not necessary, because canvas could accept integers as well as floats, so converting everything to floats is just a waste of time. This means, that if i'd want to use different canvas, i will need to add another method which will perform a conversion. you lost me there. But I ;m sure that you will explain it to me :) I meant that i would need to add the GradientFillStyleinstallOnRomeGLCanvas: aCanvas instead of reusing the code. But this can be avoided, if we provide a generic canvas method to create a gradient fills. Then this method could be renamed to #installOnRomeCanvas: and implementation will consist of messages, sent to canvas to build a gradient fill. do you have a sketch that I follow the example 100% GradientFillStyleinstallOnRomeCanvas: aCanvas ^ aCanvas cacheAt: self ifAbsentPut: [ aCanvas gradientFill: #linear origin: ... colors: ... ] and generally, a persistent resources (or ones which may change, but rarely) could use a following pattern: SomethinginstallOnRomeCanvas: aCanvas self isChanged ifTrue: [ aCanvas invalidateCache: self ]. ^ aCanvas cacheAt: self ifAbsentPut: [ aCanvas createSomething: ... ] Then, after heating-up, it will run at maximum efficiency by using a cached (and already converted resources) instead of performing conversions each
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
We can also be more rigorous about asking user questions on the user list. I wonder what the difference is between these and Squeak-dev/beginner, which seem to be more balanced. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/about-a-digest-for-the-mailing-list-tp2239731p2240148.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
Ok do you give a try? Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:52 PM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: For me I'm open to a lot of suggestions but at the end of the day is who can do it. A way is to have weekly news rather than monthly, it's shorter so less time to write it. I can participate but I want other people, so we can write in turns. As a rule we can take the 3 longer threads of the week and write a summary (or copy/paste good messages). For each thread put a link in the news pointing to forum.world.st interface. Add a section 'Annoucements' for new or updated packages announced on mailing-list. Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:37 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active I prefer the blog, it makes some activity on the website. Yes it's not really active. The format I like is wine news, see http://www.winehq.org/wwn/362 as there's link to threads on mailing-list, shows progress community. sound goods. How do we use that? Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
Stéphane Ducasse wrote: to do what? which one exactly? The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if I find a bug in the system that I want to fix - I want to move to another world, fix the bug, and move right back to my client world, with the windows exactly the way I left them. For my use case, saving projects doesn't come into play. Why not remove the save functionality, since that seems to be the objection everyone raises, and keep them as a workspace organization tool - in image only? Lukas Renggli wrote: I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. For my workflow, this is too heavyweight. In my mind, that's like buying multiple separate computers to run different apps. Even though I am working on multiple tasks at once, they are not *that* different. For example, in my fix a bug task above, I want the fix to be in my working image (which is automatic in the projects solution), without having to load into all the other images I'm working on. One of the killer features of Squeak/Pharo to me is that the whole system is available to itself. If I start breaking the image into smaller task-based images, it feels like going back to applications and files - yuck! ;-) Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240170.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Rome Canvas to replace an ordinary canvas [Was: Re: Rendering fonts on OpenGL ]
Some news (sources at www.squeaksource.com/Athens): About having a first 'minimal' version, working with RomePluginCanvas and RomeReferenceCanvas, it seems to be ok. I retrieve the tests from Sophie and all are green. In romeDemo, I made a category with some working examples (using RomePluginCanvas and RomeRefrenceCanvas). However, There is still some primitive faillures for which I'm not able to do a lot of things: see for example RomeDemo class demoRotateWindow. Now about fonts, I thing the best is to rebuild all: a part of the code is using some Tweak specific classes, or other classes no longer present in Pharo. Morover I wonder why it is usefull to have a Rome-comon API for fonts (RomeFont), when pharo as already its own AbstractFont API ? I guess that the idea was really to have an API fonts are just set to a canvas to draw strings. You can see an example using fonts in RomeDemo class demoRotateSophieLogo. From tweak, I only kept classes about CTransformCanvas, but I don't know what it is :) There is just a working example in RomeDemo. So maybe it could be removed (I think all the 'Athens-Tweak' category could be removed). So maybe at this point we could start to fix the API (?) Excellent! So may be we could put ROME in pharo-dev as a demo? Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] about a digest for the mailing-list
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.frwrote: Ok do you give a try? Just say please :D Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:52 PM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: For me I'm open to a lot of suggestions but at the end of the day is who can do it. A way is to have weekly news rather than monthly, it's shorter so less time to write it. I can participate but I want other people, so we can write in turns. As a rule we can take the 3 longer threads of the week and write a summary (or copy/paste good messages). For each thread put a link in the news pointing to forum.world.st interface. Add a section 'Annoucements' for new or updated packages announced on mailing-list. Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:37 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: we could have something a bit more detailed then we could also reach people. I do not know who is reading the blog May be this is enough but the blog is not really active I prefer the blog, it makes some activity on the website. Yes it's not really active. The format I like is wine news, see http://www.winehq.org/wwn/362 as there's link to threads on mailing-list, shows progress community. sound goods. How do we use that? Laurent Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:18 AM, laurent laffont wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr wrote: Hi I think that lot of people are overwhelmed by the flux of mails. I would like get us doing the following: - have an announce mailing-list with a low traffic and important announces - having a monthly report of items. For the second point we could have a group of people picking info in the list and creating a wiki page and at the end of the month sending it in the announce list. What do you think? Who could help? Isn't it a duplicate effort of http://pharo-project.org/news ? Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Memory Monitor
Cool! Noury On 1 juin 2010, at 22:10, Alexandre Bergel wrote: Hi! I produced a new version which now display more information. Feedback are welcome Cheers, Alexandre Screen shot 2010-06-01 at 16.08.39.png___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
I guess a project in an image-based system is not always easily defined. What is a project exactly? Is it a morphic application, a seaside/AIDAWeb/Iliad based web app, a new framework, a shared component? Which part of the image needs to be in the project? Maybe I am wrong here but with the new package management system everyone can freely load and unload projects they want to work with/on from repositories like PharoSource uuuh SqueakSource :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240239.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
Projects as described might be similar to Dolphin's IdeaSpace. For whatever reason, I never liked them very much, so I am not the best person to comment. What I found most effective was to have filters on browsers so they would show me only subsets of the image and were easily launched from a tool that was always available in my image. That said, I can see why one might would want to have different tools open for different tasks, and be able to easily move between them. I am not sure about the objections to Squeak projects, other than IIRC, they use SmartReferenceStream, which I find to be horrible in various respects. The output is verbose, layout conversions do not anticipate the needs of an end user nor of the developer trying to protect the end user from a walkback, and the conversion methods go in the wrong place (attached to the serializer instead of the class that changed). In a word, YUK!!! Bill From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Sean P. DeNigris [s...@clipperadams.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:58 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo? Stéphane Ducasse wrote: to do what? which one exactly? The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if I find a bug in the system that I want to fix - I want to move to another world, fix the bug, and move right back to my client world, with the windows exactly the way I left them. For my use case, saving projects doesn't come into play. Why not remove the save functionality, since that seems to be the objection everyone raises, and keep them as a workspace organization tool - in image only? Lukas Renggli wrote: I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. For my workflow, this is too heavyweight. In my mind, that's like buying multiple separate computers to run different apps. Even though I am working on multiple tasks at once, they are not *that* different. For example, in my fix a bug task above, I want the fix to be in my working image (which is automatic in the projects solution), without having to load into all the other images I'm working on. One of the killer features of Squeak/Pharo to me is that the whole system is available to itself. If I start breaking the image into smaller task-based images, it feels like going back to applications and files - yuck! ;-) Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240170.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
I think you are missing the OP's point. The goal (unless I am missing something) is to have a way to open say four browsers on specific classes and methods and maybe a workspace or two to work on one particular project/task, and to do the same for other tasks. All of this stuff would remain readily accessible with a high-level table of contents that allows on to enter a task, change something, and then switch to another task. My argument against this would be that it seems potentially memory hungry and perhaps sluggish due to all of the potentially invisible tools' updating themselves on various events, but if we ignore it in our images, we won't suffer much. I agree that doing this with separate images is a step backward. Bill From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Geert Claes [geert.wl.cl...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 10:38 AM To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo? I guess a project in an image-based system is not always easily defined. What is a project exactly? Is it a morphic application, a seaside/AIDAWeb/Iliad based web app, a new framework, a shared component? Which part of the image needs to be in the project? Maybe I am wrong here but with the new package management system everyone can freely load and unload projects they want to work with/on from repositories like PharoSource uuuh SqueakSource :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240239.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Hi Juan, This is __really__ cool. Cheers, Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 08:16, Juan Vuletich wrote: Lukas Renggli wrote: Hi Juan, This looks really exiting! How do you get the actual pixels drawn? Is this implemented in Smalltalk? Did you write primitives to do that? Are you using external libraries? How does it compare performance wise with the current rendering? Lukas Hi Lukas, I'm glad you like it. It is all done in Smalltalk. There are no external libraries. In fact, I developed new drawing algorithms that are better than those in Cairo, AGG, etc. So there are no libraries in existence I could call! The sampling theorem is about 80 years old. It is the base (together with Fourier analysis) of most of the DSP (Digital Signal Processing) field. It is therefore the basis of digital audio and photography. But it seems I am the first one to apply it to 2d rendering! I have been working on this for the last 3 years, after finishing my Ms.Sc. in CS on Image and Signal Processing. I had to establish the theoretical foundations, and come up with new algorithms to draw basic elements using this theory. What you see are the first practical result of all this work. It is still pure Smalltalk, and therefore, a bit slow. The lion takes 1.8 secs to draw on my 1.6GHz Mac mini. I am still changing the code a lot, but when it stabilizes I'll do a VM plugin. I guess it would be about 100 times faster. The other option is to use Igor's NativeBoost. That could perhaps be 10 times faster than the plugin, at the cost of portability and hand written asm (I'd done lots of asm in a previous life). Cheers, Juan Vuletich On 2 June 2010 13:43, Juan Vuletich j...@jvuletich.org wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. I also want to thank publicly to Stef Ducasse and ESUG, as they are sponsoring Morphic 3 via the support your project program, described in http://www.esug.org/Promotion/Project . Thanks ESUG! Comments welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2912 - Release Date: 06/02/10 03:25:00 ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] New Pharo1.1 ?
Hi! Can we get a new version of Pharo 1.1 based on the latest core? I can produce it if necessary. Cheers, Alexandre ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Actually, this is beyond cool :) Doru On 2 Jun 2010, at 17:42, Alexandre Bergel wrote: Hi Juan, This is __really__ cool. Cheers, Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 08:16, Juan Vuletich wrote: Lukas Renggli wrote: Hi Juan, This looks really exiting! How do you get the actual pixels drawn? Is this implemented in Smalltalk? Did you write primitives to do that? Are you using external libraries? How does it compare performance wise with the current rendering? Lukas Hi Lukas, I'm glad you like it. It is all done in Smalltalk. There are no external libraries. In fact, I developed new drawing algorithms that are better than those in Cairo, AGG, etc. So there are no libraries in existence I could call! The sampling theorem is about 80 years old. It is the base (together with Fourier analysis) of most of the DSP (Digital Signal Processing) field. It is therefore the basis of digital audio and photography. But it seems I am the first one to apply it to 2d rendering! I have been working on this for the last 3 years, after finishing my Ms.Sc. in CS on Image and Signal Processing. I had to establish the theoretical foundations, and come up with new algorithms to draw basic elements using this theory. What you see are the first practical result of all this work. It is still pure Smalltalk, and therefore, a bit slow. The lion takes 1.8 secs to draw on my 1.6GHz Mac mini. I am still changing the code a lot, but when it stabilizes I'll do a VM plugin. I guess it would be about 100 times faster. The other option is to use Igor's NativeBoost. That could perhaps be 10 times faster than the plugin, at the cost of portability and hand written asm (I'd done lots of asm in a previous life). Cheers, Juan Vuletich On 2 June 2010 13:43, Juan Vuletich j...@jvuletich.org wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. I also want to thank publicly to Stef Ducasse and ESUG, as they are sponsoring Morphic 3 via the support your project program, described in http://www.esug.org/Promotion/Project . Thanks ESUG! Comments welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2912 - Release Date: 06/02/10 03:25:00 ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com It's not how it is, it is how we see it. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if I... Yep, thank you Sean - this more or less nails it. Squeak projects are what comes closest to what i need to be able to quickly change context. It is perfectly ok to have them just in the image without any possibility for load/save. As for the IDEA comparison I raised, there is a big difference in my work style when switching tasks in IDEA/Java and Smalltalk. My impression is that for one this is because in Smalltalk you live inside your objects (image) while in Java you mostly have the edit-compile cycle. Also, traditional Smalltalk Browsers show you just one small piece of code (method) at a time while in file oriented environments you think in Files and scroll to get to a method. So what I do in Smalltalk is placing a couple of Browsers, workspaces and often also instances of the developed objects (!). Switching context means to destroy all this setup, and manually build another one. Switching bask, I have to redo all this for my former setup. (I could imagine that all this is a bit less of an issue in web development but I have too little Smalltalk experience here). Projects as described might be similar to Dolphin's IdeaSpace. For whatever reason, I never liked them very much, so I am not the best person to comment. I share with Bill that I never use IdeaSpaces in Dolphin. However, IdeaSpaces are very different from Squeak projects as they just allow you to group browsers and workspaces with tabs which does (IMHO) not match Smalltalk work style for above reasons and I would not need a similar tool in Pharo. To summarize, I would be perfectly happy with a streamlined projects implementation that just gives you different view to dive into without any need to save them outside the present image. Ciao ...Jochen Am 02.06.2010 um 15:58 schrieb Sean P. DeNigris: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: to do what? which one exactly? The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if I find a bug in the system that I want to fix - I want to move to another world, fix the bug, and move right back to my client world, with the windows exactly the way I left them. For my use case, saving projects doesn't come into play. Why not remove the save functionality, since that seems to be the objection everyone raises, and keep them as a workspace organization tool - in image only? Lukas Renggli wrote: I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. For my workflow, this is too heavyweight. In my mind, that's like buying multiple separate computers to run different apps. Even though I am working on multiple tasks at once, they are not *that* different. For example, in my fix a bug task above, I want the fix to be in my working image (which is automatic in the projects solution), without having to load into all the other images I'm working on. One of the killer features of Squeak/Pharo to me is that the whole system is available to itself. If I start breaking the image into smaller task-based images, it feels like going back to applications and files - yuck! ;-) Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240170.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
Projects as described might be similar to Dolphin's IdeaSpace. For whatever reason, I never liked them very much, so I am not the best person to comment. I share with Bill that I never use IdeaSpaces in Dolphin. However, IdeaSpaces are very different from Squeak projects as they just allow you to group browsers and workspaces with tabs which does (IMHO) not match Smalltalk work style for above reasons and I would not need a similar tool in Pharo. To summarize, I would be perfectly happy with a streamlined projects implementation that just gives you different view to dive into without any need to save them outside the present image. build a small prototype if you can and you can really influence us :) But we will not load project code in pharo that 100% sure :) Ciao ...Jochen Am 02.06.2010 um 15:58 schrieb Sean P. DeNigris: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: to do what? which one exactly? The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if I find a bug in the system that I want to fix - I want to move to another world, fix the bug, and move right back to my client world, with the windows exactly the way I left them. For my use case, saving projects doesn't come into play. Why not remove the save functionality, since that seems to be the objection everyone raises, and keep them as a workspace organization tool - in image only? Lukas Renggli wrote: I have my different projects in different images. That works perfectly. For my workflow, this is too heavyweight. In my mind, that's like buying multiple separate computers to run different apps. Even though I am working on multiple tasks at once, they are not *that* different. For example, in my fix a bug task above, I want the fix to be in my working image (which is automatic in the projects solution), without having to load into all the other images I'm working on. One of the killer features of Squeak/Pharo to me is that the whole system is available to itself. If I start breaking the image into smaller task-based images, it feels like going back to applications and files - yuck! ;-) Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2240170.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] New Pharo1.1 ?
I will, after the Sprint of this weekend. I already asked Stef to generate a PharoCore 1.1 beta2 at the end of the Sprint. After that, I will produce a PharoDev on top of that ;) Cheers Mariano On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@inria.frwrote: Hi! Can we get a new version of Pharo 1.1 based on the latest core? I can produce it if necessary. Cheers, Alexandre ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
On 6/2/2010 3:30 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: I was just going to say the same. I have tons of images. Just duplicate an image and you have a new project. No need for a brittle mechanism inside the image. Cheers, Adrian Same here, images are projects. I never liked the squeak project mechanism. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
On 02/06/2010 12:43, Juan Vuletich wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. This is awesome :) I'm wondering though, what you intend for the input side. There's a lot of touch screen and multitouch devices around now which would be nice to directly support in addition to keyboard + mouse, things like pinch-zoom on a ZUI would be cool :) ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial + ProfStefBrowser really cool
Hi, I've just created a ConfigurationOfScamper using MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial (see http://code.google.com/p/metacello/) in ProfStefBrowser, it's really funny. Can MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial be included in Pharo (Dev) 1.1 ? Cheers, Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
2010/6/2 Schwab,Wilhelm K bsch...@anest.ufl.edu I think you are missing the OP's point. The goal (unless I am missing something) is to have a way to open say four browsers on specific classes and methods and maybe a workspace or two to work on one particular project/task, and to do the same for other tasks. In past I used projects like you. I have many tasks and used separate project for each. I have many morphs opened in different projects (for data diagrams, image processing, animation and others, not only browsers and workspaces). It's really very suitable for development, learning and usage ready appications. I try used separate images for each task. But with this approach I must update any system package in all images I used. I think multiple worlds system will be very attractive for users. Maybe its implementation not difficult. And it will be more powerfull than Dolphin IdeaSpaces and java IDE's analogous. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial + ProfStefBrowser really cool
laurent laffont wrote: Hi, I've just created a ConfigurationOfScamper using MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial (see http://code.google.com/p/metacello/) in ProfStefBrowser, it's really funny. Can MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial be included in Pharo (Dev) 1.1 ? Cheers, Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Laurent, I think that Mariano was talking about including more of Metacello in the dev image ... for Pharo 1.1 Dale ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
Hi all Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a new list of items to support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial + ProfStefBrowser really cool
I hope :) Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:47 PM, laurent laffont wrote: Hi, I've just created a ConfigurationOfScamper using MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial (see http://code.google.com/p/metacello/) in ProfStefBrowser, it's really funny. Can MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial be included in Pharo (Dev) 1.1 ? Cheers, Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
+1 Images are projects, I'm agree with that. But having multiple worlds is like having a multiple desktop layout. Why are them in Mac and Linux? Because it's useful. Cheers, Mariano. 2010/6/2 Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com 2010/6/2 Schwab,Wilhelm K bsch...@anest.ufl.edu I think you are missing the OP's point. The goal (unless I am missing something) is to have a way to open say four browsers on specific classes and methods and maybe a workspace or two to work on one particular project/task, and to do the same for other tasks. In past I used projects like you. I have many tasks and used separate project for each. I have many morphs opened in different projects (for data diagrams, image processing, animation and others, not only browsers and workspaces). It's really very suitable for development, learning and usage ready appications. I try used separate images for each task. But with this approach I must update any system package in all images I used. I think multiple worlds system will be very attractive for users. Maybe its implementation not difficult. And it will be more powerfull than Dolphin IdeaSpaces and java IDE's analogous. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] moose 4.0
Hello, We are extremely happy to announce version 4.0 of the Moose Suite: http://moosetechnology.org/download This is the first fully open source release of Moose: it is based on Pharo 1.0 (released under MIT), and all its components are available under a BSD or MIT license. WHAT'S NEW Core developments: • New meta-meta-model: FM3 implemented in Fame • New FAMIX 3 meta-model defined using Fame • New query interface for FAMIX • FAMIX extensions for Java to support annotations and exceptions • Glamour: a new generic engine for scripting browsers • Merlin: a new framework for defining wizards • MooseAlgos: Improved generic algorithms for graph and data manipulation • PetitParser: a novel framework for defining modular parsers • Improved Mondrian engine for scripting graph-based visualizations • Arki: a framework for fast creation of custom reports Improved user interface: • Extensible Moose Finder based on Glamour with integrated visualizations and query facilities • Moose meta-model browser • Wizard-based importers for Smalltalk and Java (with inFusion) • Customizable System Complexity visualization • Customizable Distribution Map visualization • Several dedicated browsers and viualizations Better technical infrastructure: • Hudson-based integration server • Metacello project versioning • Fame lint rules Improved documentation: • The Moose Book: http://themoosebook.org Other applications: • The Package Blueprint visualization • Enriched DSM (eDSM): a suite of tools for detecting dependency cycles • SmallDude: duplication detection engine • Distribution Map engine External applications: • Aspect Maps: a visual tool for understanding Java aspects • Spy: a Smalltalk dynamic analysis instrumentation • AutoMoose: an integration of Moose with the command line • Moose JEE: a set of tools dedicated to the analysis of JEE systems • CAnalyzer: a parser and a set of visualizations to analyze C systems • Tighter integration with inFusion for Java parsing A complete list of issues fixed in this release can be found at:http://code.google.com/p/moose-technology/issues/list?can=1q=status=Fixed%20milestone=4.0 FUTURE PLANS An incomplete set of future actions: • Trait-based FAMIX metamodel for better conceptual clarity and more reuse • Better layered architecture nearing Pharo core: the goal is to ease the path from a Moose prototype to a stand-alone tool for Pharo. • Improved FAMIX query API • Improved Glamour engine • Improved Mondrian engine • EyeSee engine for drawing charts • Better browsers for various analyses use cases • Parsers for various languages • Tests reorganization • your project as a default tool in Moose Suite ;) Have fun, The Moose Team ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
hehe, I never use Spaces in OS X. They don't work for me (often, windows open in the wrong space and hence I quickly mess up and it just gets annoying because I don't find what I am looking for). Instead, I use multiple machines! just kidding ;) cu on Saturday at the sprint, Adrian On Jun 2, 2010, at 21:45 , Mariano Abel Coca wrote: +1 Images are projects, I'm agree with that. But having multiple worlds is like having a multiple desktop layout. Why are them in Mac and Linux? Because it's useful. Cheers, Mariano. 2010/6/2 Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com 2010/6/2 Schwab,Wilhelm K bsch...@anest.ufl.edu I think you are missing the OP's point. The goal (unless I am missing something) is to have a way to open say four browsers on specific classes and methods and maybe a workspace or two to work on one particular project/task, and to do the same for other tasks. In past I used projects like you. I have many tasks and used separate project for each. I have many morphs opened in different projects (for data diagrams, image processing, animation and others, not only browsers and workspaces). It's really very suitable for development, learning and usage ready appications. I try used separate images for each task. But with this approach I must update any system package in all images I used. I think multiple worlds system will be very attractive for users. Maybe its implementation not difficult. And it will be more powerfull than Dolphin IdeaSpaces and java IDE's analogous. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?
I have never been able to distinguish my workplace from home. I therefore have just one place, where I both live and work. Instead, I frequently change countries. Just (half) kidding ;-) Cheers, Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 15:54, Adrian Lienhard wrote: hehe, I never use Spaces in OS X. They don't work for me (often, windows open in the wrong space and hence I quickly mess up and it just gets annoying because I don't find what I am looking for). Instead, I use multiple machines! just kidding ;) cu on Saturday at the sprint, Adrian On Jun 2, 2010, at 21:45 , Mariano Abel Coca wrote: +1 Images are projects, I'm agree with that. But having multiple worlds is like having a multiple desktop layout. Why are them in Mac and Linux? Because it's useful. Cheers, Mariano. 2010/6/2 Denis Kudriashov dionisi...@gmail.com 2010/6/2 Schwab,Wilhelm K bsch...@anest.ufl.edu I think you are missing the OP's point. The goal (unless I am missing something) is to have a way to open say four browsers on specific classes and methods and maybe a workspace or two to work on one particular project/task, and to do the same for other tasks. In past I used projects like you. I have many tasks and used separate project for each. I have many morphs opened in different projects (for data diagrams, image processing, animation and others, not only browsers and workspaces). It's really very suitable for development, learning and usage ready appications. I try used separate images for each task. But with this approach I must update any system package in all images I used. I think multiple worlds system will be very attractive for users. Maybe its implementation not difficult. And it will be more powerfull than Dolphin IdeaSpaces and java IDE's analogous. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Woah, cool. ^^ On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Douglas Brebner squeakli...@fang.demon.co.uk wrote: On 02/06/2010 12:43, Juan Vuletich wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. This is awesome :) I'm wondering though, what you intend for the input side. There's a lot of touch screen and multitouch devices around now which would be nice to directly support in addition to keyboard + mouse, things like pinch-zoom on a ZUI would be cool :) ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Using WebClient
Unfortunately the customer cancelled the project (He selected an automation solution using ActiveX, but automating the IE. My proposal was talking directly with the http server and make a service and so, but wellare the business :) ). Anyway I got very interested by this topic and will try to give a try to the implementation of the post method using multipart boundaries when time permit (This topic is already on my near-to-infinite-todo list). Cheers. Germán. 2010/6/2 Germán Arduino gardu...@gmail.com: Hi Andreas: Thanks by the comments. I will continue with the multipart stuff, because this may become a payed work for a local customer. Indeed I could do the job with other tools but in most of cases that means install a gazillion of different pieces of software of third parts that are complex to make work. I prefer to develop my own solution, even with a bit more of work, but completeley Smalltalk. Then I can deploy on the customer a self containded service that I can extend as the customer need. I'm now reading about multipart/form-data enctype and will try to develop this feature for WebClient (if the customer don't cancel the project). Will send the news. Cheers. Germán. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
Today's debugger (and all pharo indeed), is extremely dependant on the mouse... I would love to do all the same with just the keyboard :( On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.frwrote: Hi all Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a new list of items to support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
The problems that I would like to see Pharo address are: - redundancies in unit tests - coverage of tests - classification of low and high levels of tests (implementation tests vs user stories) What are the tools to identify and solve this issues ? Research is needed :-) Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 15:30, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi all Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a new list of items to support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
I'm thinking out load here ... In the debugger when a DNU is raised, for speeding up the programming in *TDD mode**:* - The create button must add the method in the class of the receiver, the possibility to choose a superclass of the receiver must be optional (I don't like the recurrent asking...) in other button for example or having different shortcuts from the keyboard - If I send a message that I already know that will be a getter, some option like Create getter could *automagically* create the method and the instance variable. - When we a accept a method for the first time the pop-ups saying Unkown selector please confirm, select or cancel are really annoying and decrease coding speed - Same for the category pop-ups - In the creation of a new class through define new class it will be helpful to remember the last class category used Some ToDo list supported from the environment and some facility for the creation of test. All of the above maybe just make sense in *TDD mode* or not =P Cheers 2010/6/2 Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@inria.fr The problems that I would like to see Pharo address are: - redundancies in unit tests - coverage of tests - classification of low and high levels of tests (implementation tests vs user stories) What are the tools to identify and solve this issues ? Research is needed :-) Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 15:30, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi all Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a new list of items to support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Germán Leiva leivager...@gmail.com ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] Multiple Worlds (was Re: Can I use Projects in Pharo?)
I have never been able to distinguish my workplace from home. I therefore have just one place, where I both live and work. Instead, I frequently change countries. Just (half) kidding ;-) lol! It seems like I (and the OP?) maybe never really got projects, and so never experienced the dark side. After this conversation, it seems clear that we're desiring a multiple-world feature (which projects could be used for in Squeak). Sean p.s. I'm glad we had this thread because I always wondered what the resistance to multiple worlds (how I thought of projects) was! It has been the biggest missing feature that prevented me from using Pharo for all my work, and has me split between a Pharo image for client development, and a Squeak image for everything else.___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go along). I only use tests with SUnit assertions for community projects, as not to confuse or add additional dependencies. I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
I use Mockery - my implementation SSpec idies. It is realy more powerfull, transparency and flexibility. With Mockery you dont need any special base classes for TestCases or mocks factory variables in code. You just use mocks where you want by Block creation scenarios: [:mock | [sut doWith: mock] should lenient satisfy: [mock someMessage willReturn: #result] ] runScenario. State specs like 5 should be an instance of: Integer can be easely added by pragmas. And Its work in Pharo 1.0. Of course, It's needs more good stuff. But now I dont have enough time. http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html 2010/6/3 Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go along). I only use tests with SUnit assertions for community projects, as not to confuse or add additional dependencies. I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: SUnit Time out
Thanks for clarifying your goals w.r.t. introducing the timeout. I think that's important because, as I've said, legacy tests that live in external packages are affected. I read your whole note a few times, and one part in particular stuck out to me as a potentially useful use-case for test-case timeout: These changes are largely intended for automated integration testing. I am hoping to automate the tests for community supported packages to a point where there will be no user in front of the system. If, by this, you mean you want to simply have a headless running squeak image which: [ true ] whileTrue: [ loadLatestPackageCombinations. runTestSuite. mailResultsToSqueakDev ] THEN, that brings us down to only haggling about the default timeout, although I still would prefer to handle timeout it at a higher level.. If, however, this isn't the goal, then I still don't seem to have grasped, what I sense is, some key point.. or that my own concerns were properly understood. If so, let me try one more time. :) done but the reality is that regardless of what the operation is we never actually wait forever. At some point we *will* give up no matter what you may think. This is THE fundamental point here. Everything else is basically haggling about what the right timeout is. Of course we would give up after an unreasonable amount of time. In either case, there is something to interrogate, either a live looping test-runner machine, or a static report of test results with one or more that say, timed out. In the former case, we have a bevy of useful information, (e.g., which test is it trying to run? How much memory is the test image using right now? Can I Alt+. interrupt it and get even more information?) In the latter case, there is no choice but to start at square 1: Try to recreate the problem. (What if it works?) Personally, I would always prefer to deal with the former case than the latter.. For the right timeout the second fundamental thing to understand is that if there's a question of whether the operation maybe completed, then your timeout is too short. Period. The timeout's value is not to indicate that maybe the operation completed, it is there to say unequivocally that something caused it to not complete and that it DID fail. I didn't understand this. There is no question about maybe completed. We know if a test times out then it _didn't_ complete. The maybe I referred to was about the core question: whether the underlying software being tested can be used or not. Maybe it could, then again, maybe it shouldn't. It sounds like we agree, a timeout would *have* to be regarded as a failure. Obviously, introducing timeouts will create some initial false positives. You mean false negatives? If we are saying that we must treat a timeout as failure, and failure is negative, then a timeout would be false negative or a true negative? But it may be interesting to be a bit more precise on what we're talking about. To do this I attributed TestRunner to measure the time it takes to run each test and then ran all the tests in 4.2 to see where that leads us. As you might expect, the distribution is extremely uneven. Out of 2681 tests run 2588 execute in 500 msecs (approx. 1800 execute with no measurable time); 2630 execute in less than one second, leaving a total of 51 that take more than a second and only three tests actually take longer than 5 seconds and they are all tagged as such. That's fine for the 4.2 tests, but there are hundreds of tests in external packages. With a mere 5-second default, many will need to be updated with a pragma. But then we're talking about a branch in the package because that won't be backward compatible with 3.9, will it? As you can see the vast majority of tests have a safety margin of 10x or more between the time the test usually takes and its timeout value. Generally speaking, this margin is sufficient to compensate for other effects that might rightfully delay the completion of the test in time. I can see that jacking up the timeout may tend reduce the number of false negatives (at the expense of potentially longer wait times!), but when they do, we have no useful information whatsoever. Not even certainty whether the underlying software is usable or not, because it could be a false negative. If you have tests that commonly vary by 10x I'd be interested in finding out more about what makes them so unpredictable. Well, again, it's not just about randomness in the tests but also about external factors; CPU speed, current system load, etc. So if your question is are my timeouts to tight one thing we could do is to introduce the 10x as a more or less general guideline for executing tests, Ok, with that kind of margin, the message I'm getting from you is that it does about making a human have to wait. We just want to make sure we get some kind of report? But, the reason given for the change was not
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
Douglas Brebner wrote: On 02/06/2010 12:43, Juan Vuletich wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. This is awesome :) I'm wondering though, what you intend for the input side. There's a lot of touch screen and multitouch devices around now which would be nice to directly support in addition to keyboard + mouse, things like pinch-zoom on a ZUI would be cool :) Yes, that would be cool. I also thought about multi user multi touch tables, where I need to handle input form several fingers simultaneously, that can belong or not to the same hand (user). Also multiple standard and MIDI keyboards, continuous MIDI controllers, pen tablets, more special input devices, such as the voice and various devices designed for people with disabilities, etc... But I have done nothing of this yet. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Multiple Worlds (was Re: Can I use Projects in Pharo?)
there is a key point in all this thread. we are not against ideas. We loved etoys and I did more presentations about it than probably 95% of the squeakers population now we do not like its implementation because it hurts us. Same for projects. Simple. Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:34 PM, DeNigris Sean wrote: I have never been able to distinguish my workplace from home. I therefore have just one place, where I both live and work. Instead, I frequently change countries. Just (half) kidding ;-) lol! It seems like I (and the OP?) maybe never really got projects, and so never experienced the dark side. After this conversation, it seems clear that we're desiring a multiple-world feature (which projects could be used for in Squeak). Sean p.s. I'm glad we had this thread because I always wondered what the resistance to multiple worlds (how I thought of projects) was! It has been the biggest missing feature that prevented me from using Pharo for all my work, and has me split between a Pharo image for client development, and a Squeak image for everything else. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:22 PM, Germán Leiva wrote: I'm thinking out load here ... In the debugger when a DNU is raised, for speeding up the programming in TDD mode: • The create button must add the method in the class of the receiver, the possibility to choose a superclass of the receiver must be optional (I don't like the recurrent asking...) in other button for example or having different shortcuts from the keyboard is it not already the case? • If I send a message that I already know that will be a getter, some option like Create getter could automagically create the method and the instance variable. • When we a accept a method for the first time the pop-ups saying Unkown selector please confirm, select or cancel are really annoying and decrease coding speed • Same for the category pop-ups • In the creation of a new class through define new class it will be helpful to remember the last class category used Some ToDo list supported from the environment and some facility for the creation of test. All of the above maybe just make sense in TDD mode or not =P if you have code I would be really interested. I know hernan did some extensions in the past Cheers 2010/6/2 Alexandre Bergel alexandre.ber...@inria.fr The problems that I would like to see Pharo address are: - redundancies in unit tests - coverage of tests - classification of low and high levels of tests (implementation tests vs user stories) What are the tools to identify and solve this issues ? Research is needed :-) Alexandre On 2 Jun 2010, at 15:30, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Hi all Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a new list of items to support it. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Germán Leiva leivager...@gmail.com ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go along). I only use tests with SUnit assertions for community projects, as not to confuse or add additional dependencies. I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. but is it not just using SSpec? Did SSpec still loads? Does it load in pharo well? Where is it? Stef Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
do you happen to know tim mckinnon? Stef On Jun 3, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: I use Mockery - my implementation SSpec idies. It is realy more powerfull, transparency and flexibility. With Mockery you dont need any special base classes for TestCases or mocks factory variables in code. You just use mocks where you want by Block creation scenarios: [:mock | [sut doWith: mock] should lenient satisfy: [mock someMessage willReturn: #result] ] runScenario. State specs like 5 should be an instance of: Integer can be easely added by pragmas. And Its work in Pharo 1.0. Of course, It's needs more good stuff. But now I dont have enough time. http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html 2010/6/3 Sean P. DeNigris s...@clipperadams.com Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go along). I only use tests with SUnit assertions for community projects, as not to confuse or add additional dependencies. I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo
what is important for me is that we distinguish what is related to the UI flow from the loading of a specific tests libraries. RIght now I would like to concentrate on UI flow and tools interaction. Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform for doing TDD. What would be the changes that we could do support it. Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go along). I only use tests with SUnit assertions for community projects, as not to confuse or add additional dependencies. I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project
finishing something is always taking time and this is great to see you making progress on that front. For the PhD it could be full time job to sell that. Did you identify potential research group? Stef Douglas Brebner wrote: On 02/06/2010 12:43, Juan Vuletich wrote: Hi Folks, I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. This is awesome :) I'm wondering though, what you intend for the input side. There's a lot of touch screen and multitouch devices around now which would be nice to directly support in addition to keyboard + mouse, things like pinch-zoom on a ZUI would be cool :) Yes, that would be cool. I also thought about multi user multi touch tables, where I need to handle input form several fingers simultaneously, that can belong or not to the same hand (user). Also multiple standard and MIDI keyboards, continuous MIDI controllers, pen tablets, more special input devices, such as the voice and various devices designed for people with disabilities, etc... But I have done nothing of this yet. Cheers, Juan Vuletich ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
