Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application. so... I want to be clear... that means Deimos (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P) Cheers, Esteban ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application. so... I want to be clear... that means Deimos (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P) indeed. I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Here's a nice apple skull: http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/images/int-ss-001-01.jpg You can buy a T-shirt too ;-) - on http://www.bluecollardistro.com/indietech/product_info.php?products_id=1719cPath=387_388store=# On Apr 22, 2010, at 15:22 , Stéphane Ducasse wrote: On Apr 22, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not = allowed, but in the=20 future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even = if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application. so... I want to be clear... that means Deimos (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P) indeed. I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press. Stef ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
On 2010-04-22, at 4:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: so... I want to be clear... that means Deimos (and the adhoc vm) is not being allowed to exist? (right now, I'm working on deimos as if not change was introduced at all, but I need to take all of this into account now :P) Cheers, Esteban Well you can read the http://monotouch.net news item and think it over. Novell says: we have heard little direct feedback from Apple Ya, been there... Right now C, C++, Obj-C, Javascript are the only allowable languages to code in. Maybe they'll refine it a bit and add assembler, or maybe they will ditch the entire clause. -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
On 2010-04-22, at 6:22 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: I still naively believe that if all the programmers of the dynamic language put a logo with apple and a black skull on their web page. Apple will get a bad press. Yes well I don't think that will achieve much. Personally I think that the people here involved in the education university domains need to write actual paper based letters on their institution's letter head and mail them to the Apple education reps for their countries stating their concern about Apple's legal agreements that appear to lockout the iPad for extraordinary use in the computer science curriculum. This involves passionately arguing for the ability to program, or teach in something other than C, C++, Obj-C or Javascript, Im sure others are more capable than me in composing that, as a software engineer my words aren't worth much, but I think computer science departments should be voicing their concern on the direction where things appear to be going. -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter. As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet, So I wait. On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone. STef On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:12 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter. As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet, So I wait. On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
On 2010-04-21, at 1:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: Good! John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone. STef Yes, I did conduct a magazine interview today where I ensured I did mentioned that ESUG funding was instrumental in getting the foundations of Scratch (aka Squeak VM) onto the iPhone, otherwise it would never have happened. As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not allowed, but in the future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even if it's hidden from view or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application. -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
This morning there was a huge rumbling of email in my in-box. The result accumulated in Wired's nicely written article which you can find at http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app At this time I have no further information to offer and I'm awaiting further communication from Apple. Alan Kay did contribute to the article, I did not, other than various quotes Wired lifted from my letter in the Apple Developer Forums. -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Obviously I'm collecting media links on the issue http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
[Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect. First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list. My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are made with a particular language. The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted language. Second, I drafted a letter titled: Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425 At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk. Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs. He did respond. Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event. Fourth, I have interest support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly. Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it. -- === John M. McIntosh john...@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com === smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
