Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
Ok, I'm going slightly off-topic here. But what makes me wonder is that it is BehaviorisAbstractClass and not ClassisAbstractClass SLICE-Issue-1383-isAbstractClass-Alexandre_Bergel.1 in the inbox http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1383 Cheers, Alexandre On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
Yes please don't add that. It is alreday pain enough to get complicated objects setup in the right oder with the #initialize always being called (ok it is easy to work around and in many cases it is just fine, but you need to be aware of it). Lukas On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
Yes please don't add that. This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? Cheers, Alexandre On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.euwrote: Yes please don't add that. This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? I am also against of this change. We should continue to have flexible language and not to convert this in Java. In addition, I MAY want to instantiate Abstract classes. Sometime you are doing prototypes, or TDD, and you want to instantiate an object of an abstract class. Even if you have a subclassResponsability. I don't care. Maybe I am not testing that right now, nor showing that to my client. I think the correct way to detect your kind of problems is with Lint. If it is not already done, maybe it could be added. Cheers Mariano Cheers, Alexandre On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck marianop...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Yes please don't add that. This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? I am also against of this change. We should continue to have flexible language and not to convert this in Java. In addition, I MAY want to instantiate Abstract classes. Sometime you are doing prototypes, or TDD, and you want to instantiate an object of an abstract class. Even if you have a subclassResponsability. I don't care. Maybe I am not testing that right now, nor showing that to my client. I think the correct way to detect your kind of problems is with Lint. If it is not already done, maybe it could be added. There is a rule that checks for that, I think it is called refers to abstract class. I don't have an image at hand to verify. It could be extended to take a declaration like #isAbstractClass into account. Lukaz Cheers Mariano Cheers, Alexandre On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class
Ok, I'm going slightly off-topic here. But what makes me wonder is that it is BehaviorisAbstractClass and not ClassisAbstractClass Good point. Someone else agree with this change? If yes, I do it. And wouldn't it than be ClassbasicNew self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ super basicNew if you want to avoid abstract classes being instantiated? Not to forget basicNew: The whole mailing list will express its wrath if you do this. Just a question. Ah, it was just a question. Fine then :-) Alexandre Norbert On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev ksh...@gmail.com wrote: And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract methods. So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? Stanislav Paskalev On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel alexan...@bergel.eu wrote: Hi! Just wondering. What about redefining new into: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Behaviornew Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable. self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ self basicNew initialize -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This may break a lot of code however. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. ___ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
