Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
My requirements: no scanner to access metadata explicit first class definition to build better tools - need class definition (so that we can remove do it on reply) like in VW. - package definition - declarative syntax of action I would prefer to have an object instead of a message for recategorization so that tool can manipulate objects and not their implementation copy and pasteable close to coding in emacs (in the sense that it would be nice to have a scripting syntax also used in chunk) cf coral http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/coral
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr But I cannot recompile the method I fileout. Can you? May be this is because I did not use the filelist and I copied and pasted from the file veronica sent me. An alternative format not using escape sequence would be to define the end of chunk on line, like in a shell script: cat myfile END here is my own data END The chunk could be chosen by default and changed only if present in method source (or class comment or whatever). Particularly, if you want to transcribe class comments unaltered (that is without quoting of any form), you can't rely on any syntax to delimit the comments, there is none. this is not because people were not using a decent syntax to fileout and that after they hacked the system that this is not a bug. Yes, it is by no way meant to be human written and does not decently meet the requirements for scripting. For exchanging code, the chunk format is a bit poor too, but it is manageable with a good change list tool (not the squeak one). And remember, it was (and is still) used for logging system changes in the change log. And it is very efficient for that. With chunk format, you don't need quoting the code (except exclamation mark itself of course), and that's an important feature IMO, this format served its purpose very decently. Well, you can tell me the Squeak hacks to identify authors and timestamp are awfully implemented, I can only agree, but the basis are very simple. TSTTCPW. I think that it would deserve a new pass. Because very simple is not true when you look at the complexity = invoking the scanner to get some information and then poking around to know if this is a comment or a class definition. Yes. The format is mainly like this: 1) metadata 2) source If metadata is missing or incomplete, then the tools have to try to decode the source (generally a do-it). This is particularly true in Squeak for a variety of actions (I don't have an image handy, but I think removing renaming a class etc... are in this category). But you can. You can browse the code, can't you ? go and see in .sources or .changes, you'll see a doubled ! You can fileOut, then fileIn, no problem. I spent some days a couple of year ago in the filein fileout because I wanted to load all the code of squeak starting from sq10 - 3.9 and I can tell you that the allButLast first kind of expressions to skip over ' or ! to me indicate a problem because saving a element of program should not be like that and this is why the format of the fileout is not good. Of course it works but it does not mean that this is good. Stef Totally agree, as I said before, I don't like the implementation because it hardly readable, maintainable, and is very inefficient... Especially the handling of Squeak meta additions (timestamp, author). But the format by itself is very simple. I don't buy the terms good as an absolute reference, it must be relative to the requirements. Expose your requirements, then we'll can say which format is good or not. Nicolas
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
!! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
Yes I know. To me, saving a method should make sure that we can reload it and this is not the case. So to me this is a bug. try to fileout getPreambleFrom: aFileStream at: position | writeStream | writeStream := String new writeStream. position to: 0 by: -1 do: [ :p | | c | aFileStream position: p. c := aFileStream basicNext. c == $! ifTrue: [^ writeStream contents reversed] ifFalse: [writeStream nextPut: c]] :) I do not see why the system should not save it correctly even if !! is used as a chunk separator. Stef On Jul 18, 2011, at 4:55 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: !! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
Why do you say so ? I can fileOut, then fileIn without a problem. To me, this is not a bug. This is a feature. Source ! are doubled so as not to be confused with chunk separators, it's an escaping sequence like doubles quotes in String 'here''s another example which is not a bug' Nicolas 2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Yes I know. To me, saving a method should make sure that we can reload it and this is not the case. So to me this is a bug. try to fileout getPreambleFrom: aFileStream at: position | writeStream | writeStream := String new writeStream. position to: 0 by: -1 do: [ :p | | c | aFileStream position: p. c := aFileStream basicNext. c == $! ifTrue: [^ writeStream contents reversed] ifFalse: [writeStream nextPut: c]] :) I do not see why the system should not save it correctly even if !! is used as a chunk separator. Stef On Jul 18, 2011, at 4:55 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: !! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
Why do you say so ? I can fileOut, then fileIn without a problem. To me, this is not a bug. This is a feature. Source ! are doubled so as not to be confused with chunk separators, it's an escaping sequence like doubles quotes in String 'here''s another example which is not a bug' this is not because people were not using a decent syntax to fileout and that after they hacked the system that this is not a bug. If you save a method and once it is saved you cannot load it back then what is the point to save it. Seriously this is not the same than with double quote. Else it means that you cannot/should not use $! in Smalltalk method. And I read most of the spec and books on smalltalk and nobody ever mentioned that. Here this is just that this is doing the wrong behavior. Imagine that we save the code using the coral syntax then what we would not use [] anymore in method? Stef Nicolas 2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Yes I know. To me, saving a method should make sure that we can reload it and this is not the case. So to me this is a bug. try to fileout getPreambleFrom: aFileStream at: position | writeStream | writeStream := String new writeStream. position to: 0 by: -1 do: [ :p | | c | aFileStream position: p. c := aFileStream basicNext. c == $! ifTrue: [^ writeStream contents reversed] ifFalse: [writeStream nextPut: c]] :) I do not see why the system should not save it correctly even if !! is used as a chunk separator. Stef On Jul 18, 2011, at 4:55 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: !! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: Why do you say so ? I can fileOut, then fileIn without a problem. To me, this is not a bug. This is a feature. Source ! are doubled so as not to be confused with chunk separators, it's an escaping sequence like doubles quotes in String 'here''s another example which is not a bug' this is not because people were not using a decent syntax to fileout and that after they hacked the system that this is not a bug. If you save a method and once it is saved you cannot load it back then what is the point to save it. Seriously this is not the same than with double quote. Else it means that you cannot/should not use $! in Smalltalk method. And I read most of the spec and books on smalltalk and nobody ever mentioned that. Here this is just that this is doing the wrong behavior. You can use $! in methods, but you can't use them in preambles. Also you shouldn't use any non-ascii (charcode 127) characters in the preamble if you want to read it back again. If you don't trust me, then just check your image, I'm sure it has a few hundred methods containing the ! character. Levente Imagine that we save the code using the coral syntax then what we would not use [] anymore in method? Stef Nicolas 2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Yes I know. To me, saving a method should make sure that we can reload it and this is not the case. So to me this is a bug. try to fileout getPreambleFrom: aFileStream at: position | writeStream | writeStream := String new writeStream. position to: 0 by: -1 do: [ :p | | c | aFileStream position: p. c := aFileStream basicNext. c == $! ifTrue: [^ writeStream contents reversed] ifFalse: [writeStream nextPut: c]] :) I do not see why the system should not save it correctly even if !! is used as a chunk separator. Stef On Jul 18, 2011, at 4:55 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: !! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Why do you say so ? I can fileOut, then fileIn without a problem. To me, this is not a bug. This is a feature. Source ! are doubled so as not to be confused with chunk separators, it's an escaping sequence like doubles quotes in String 'here''s another example which is not a bug' this is not because people were not using a decent syntax to fileout and that after they hacked the system that this is not a bug. Yes, it is by no way meant to be human written and does not decently meet the requirements for scripting. For exchanging code, the chunk format is a bit poor too, but it is manageable with a good change list tool (not the squeak one). And remember, it was (and is still) used for logging system changes in the change log. And it is very efficient for that. With chunk format, you don't need quoting the code (except exclamation mark itself of course), and that's an important feature IMO, this format served its purpose very decently. Well, you can tell me the Squeak hacks to identify authors and timestamp are awfully implemented, I can only agree, but the basis are very simple. TSTTCPW. If you save a method and once it is saved you cannot load it back then what is the point to save it. But you can. You can browse the code, can't you ? go and see in .sources or .changes, you'll see a doubled ! You can fileOut, then fileIn, no problem. Seriously this is not the same than with double quote. I don't agree Else it means that you cannot/should not use $! in Smalltalk method. And I read most of the spec and books on smalltalk and nobody ever mentioned that. Here this is just that this is doing the wrong behavior. Right, they don't mention a problem because there is no problem. There is no problem because the ! is handled by doubling so as to not confuse it with an end of chunk mark. Nicolas Imagine that we save the code using the coral syntax then what we would not use [] anymore in method? Stef Nicolas 2011/7/18 Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr Yes I know. To me, saving a method should make sure that we can reload it and this is not the case. So to me this is a bug. try to fileout getPreambleFrom: aFileStream at: position | writeStream | writeStream := String new writeStream. position to: 0 by: -1 do: [ :p | | c | aFileStream position: p. c := aFileStream basicNext. c == $! ifTrue: [^ writeStream contents reversed] ifFalse: [writeStream nextPut: c]] :) I do not see why the system should not save it correctly even if !! is used as a chunk separator. Stef On Jul 18, 2011, at 4:55 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: !! Is the escaping of a single ! (like '' is the escaping of ' in a string), because the ! Is used to separate junks. Lukas On Monday, 18 July 2011, stephane ducasse stephane.duca...@free.fr wrote: Hi with veronica we found a fun bug. If you have a method with a $! and you file it out. you get $!! in the fileouted file. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4531 Stef -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch
Re: [Pharo-project] fun bug: fileouting method with a $!, produces $!!
But I cannot recompile the method I fileout. Can you? May be this is because I did not use the filelist and I copied and pasted from the file veronica sent me. this is not because people were not using a decent syntax to fileout and that after they hacked the system that this is not a bug. Yes, it is by no way meant to be human written and does not decently meet the requirements for scripting. For exchanging code, the chunk format is a bit poor too, but it is manageable with a good change list tool (not the squeak one). And remember, it was (and is still) used for logging system changes in the change log. And it is very efficient for that. With chunk format, you don't need quoting the code (except exclamation mark itself of course), and that's an important feature IMO, this format served its purpose very decently. Well, you can tell me the Squeak hacks to identify authors and timestamp are awfully implemented, I can only agree, but the basis are very simple. TSTTCPW. I think that it would deserve a new pass. Because very simple is not true when you look at the complexity = invoking the scanner to get some information and then poking around to know if this is a comment or a class definition. But you can. You can browse the code, can't you ? go and see in .sources or .changes, you'll see a doubled ! You can fileOut, then fileIn, no problem. I spent some days a couple of year ago in the filein fileout because I wanted to load all the code of squeak starting from sq10 - 3.9 and I can tell you that the allButLast first kind of expressions to skip over ' or ! to me indicate a problem because saving a element of program should not be like that and this is why the format of the fileout is not good. Of course it works but it does not mean that this is good. Stef
