Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question
I understand that Pharo people will in general want to stay away from the GPL. I just didn't know if it would potentially be more equivalent to how other languages work. In Python to my understanding I could do something like #into my MIT licensed app import GPL_library import MIT_library And the GPL not be viral in my app provided I only use the GPL library and am not modifying it in my app. Do I understand this wrong? I haven't yet investigated Pharo 7 yet, so I do not know what would be similar to the above. MyMITClass #initialize "Install configurationOfGPL package" self useGPLPackage Yes it is contrived. But I am trying to see why Pharo would be different? Both are loading GPL code and running it in a mixed system. Regarding dual-licensing. I don't think that is likely. Most of these people prefer the GPL and use it because they want its viral nature and dislike the permissiveness of MIT software. They want to constrain they software. Thanks to all who replied. I just thought I would ask. Jimmie On 09/16/2017 02:17 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: I do not think that the bootstrap changed anything. :) We will stay away from GPL. May be you can talk to the people of the libraries you want to use and see if they are interested in a dual license. Stef On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: Hello, Pharo 7 to my understanding fundamentally changes Pharo. It is my understanding that Pharo 7 starts with a core Pharo kernel and like many languages out there, imports or adds code from a variety of external sources to the image being built. With that understanding, I am curious if that would allow for inclusion of a specific library/module to be licensed as GPL? And it not affect the other code in the composed image? I am a big believer in the MIT/BSD license and not a big fan of the GPL. However, there is software out there that I have avoided looking at the source code or attempting to port it to Pharo because it is GPL. I would sincerely love if I could now port such a library and license it under the GPL as required, and it not affect any other code outside of that specific library. I am not a lawyer. Nor do I know any lawyers. Is is possible for someone to get a reasonably definitive answer on this question? I am sure I am not the only one who has had this desire. I am also sure that I am not the only one who will have this question in the future. So it would be nice to have a proper legal response that could possibly be explicitly stated somewhere on the website or on an FAQ or something. Regardless of the answer, yes or no. It does need to be a settled issue for Pharo. That way someone could know if GPL/LGPL or whatever software could be in the catalog. Just wanted to put that out there to the community. I look forward to the answer, should one be or become available. Thanks. Jimmie
Re: [Pharo-users] (no subject)
demarey wrote > Let us know if everything is fine. Was this issue [1] fixed: > I think I found it. It seems to be a bug in the way Launcher/Pharo unzips > the downloaded VM. > The symlink libgit2.dylib becomes unlinked and appears as just a regular > file. If I delete the > Pharo.app and unzip 70.zip (which btw maybe should have been deleted > during cleanup after > the dl) to ./vms/70, the error disappears! [1] From http://forum.world.st/Launcher-Error-w-Pharo-7-tt4959777.html#a4960417 - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question
On 16-09-17 18:51, Peter Uhnák wrote: This is the reason why LGPL exists. LGPL is not contagious. It is not clear that that would be the case with smalltalk. We tend to reuse by subclassing, and linking is not so well-defined. There is no license that has the same effect as LGPL has for c programs for smalltalk. Stephan
Re: [Pharo-users] PlotMorph on Pharo 6.1
Tx Stefan I was planning to do the same. On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 3:41 PM, stephan wrote: > On 16-09-17 09:29, Stephane Ducasse wrote: >> >> I'm on 10.12.6. too >> I downloaded Pharo 32 using the link. >> And I loaded from Catalog and I cannot get the problem. >> May be there is a problem with a setting in the compiler. >> I will talk to the guys monday. > > > Meta6, 7 and PlotMorph repos > > Name: ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.6 > Author: StephanEggermont > Time: 16 September 2017, 3:39:18.049684 pm > UUID: 246e825f-b015-0d00-a8c8-7793003b8086 > Ancestors: ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.5 > > No longer assign to block parameters in Pharo 6 and 7 > > Name: PlotMorph-StephanEggermont.9 > Author: StephanEggermont > Time: 16 September 2017, 3:26:48.762733 pm > UUID: e138d932-b015-0d00-a8c9-885a003b8086 > Ancestors: PlotMorph-StephanEggermont.8 > > No longer assign to block parameters > >
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question
> someone to get a reasonably definitive answer on this question? you would get that only from a copyright layer... and definitive answer only from a judge ;) I don't see how Pharo bootstrap changes anything. If you mean that you can now add library after bootstrap... well you can do that now already with any previous Pharo version. GPL is viral infection, so if you decide to bundle Pharo with your GPL-ed code, then the whole package will be terminally infected, including all the source code. Pharo or any other loaded libraries in the distro will be considered as GPL. Pharo is under MIT, so you can sublicense it, however if someone decided to contribute some code to your distribution (even if it was to Pharo), the contribution would be considered GPL and only the author would be able to put it to Pharo under the original MIT license. If you are wondering whether you can distribute Pharo with GPL code linked to it and keep the rest MIT, then the answer is no (and GPL v3 is particularly anal about this, as people are trying to work around it with v2). This is the reason why LGPL exists. LGPL is not contagious. But again, I don't see how Pharo bootstrap changes any of this. Peter On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > I do not think that the bootstrap changed anything. :) > We will stay away from GPL. > May be you can talk to the people of the libraries you want to use and > see if they are interested in a dual license. > > Stef > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Jimmie Houchin > wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Pharo 7 to my understanding fundamentally changes Pharo. It is my > > understanding that Pharo 7 starts with a core Pharo kernel and like many > > languages out there, imports or adds code from a variety of external > sources > > to the image being built. > > > > With that understanding, I am curious if that would allow for inclusion > of a > > specific library/module to be licensed as GPL? And it not affect the > other > > code in the composed image? > > > > I am a big believer in the MIT/BSD license and not a big fan of the GPL. > > However, there is software out there that I have avoided looking at the > > source code or attempting to port it to Pharo because it is GPL. I would > > sincerely love if I could now port such a library and license it under > the > > GPL as required, and it not affect any other code outside of that > specific > > library. > > > > I am not a lawyer. Nor do I know any lawyers. Is is possible for someone > to > > get a reasonably definitive answer on this question? > > > > I am sure I am not the only one who has had this desire. I am also sure > that > > I am not the only one who will have this question in the future. So it > would > > be nice to have a proper legal response that could possibly be explicitly > > stated somewhere on the website or on an FAQ or something. > > > > Regardless of the answer, yes or no. It does need to be a settled issue > for > > Pharo. That way someone could know if GPL/LGPL or whatever software > could be > > in the catalog. > > > > Just wanted to put that out there to the community. I look forward to the > > answer, should one be or become available. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Jimmie > > > > > > > >
Re: [Pharo-users] PlotMorph on Pharo 6.1
On 16-09-17 09:29, Stephane Ducasse wrote: I'm on 10.12.6. too I downloaded Pharo 32 using the link. And I loaded from Catalog and I cannot get the problem. May be there is a problem with a setting in the compiler. I will talk to the guys monday. Meta6, 7 and PlotMorph repos Name: ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.6 Author: StephanEggermont Time: 16 September 2017, 3:39:18.049684 pm UUID: 246e825f-b015-0d00-a8c8-7793003b8086 Ancestors: ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.5 No longer assign to block parameters in Pharo 6 and 7 Name: PlotMorph-StephanEggermont.9 Author: StephanEggermont Time: 16 September 2017, 3:26:48.762733 pm UUID: e138d932-b015-0d00-a8c9-885a003b8086 Ancestors: PlotMorph-StephanEggermont.8 No longer assign to block parameters
Re: [Pharo-users] UFFI problem / doubt
Hi Stephan, Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think. Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this. What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?. 2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse : > Hi alvaro > > Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on > UFFI let us know. > I will let esteban anwser because I do not know. > BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings? > > Stef > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno > wrote: > > Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library . > > I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to > it. > > I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer. > > > > This is the "new " ffiCall : > > self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i)) > > > > And this is a "seter" ffiCall: > > > > self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ). > > > > I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating. > > I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a > problem > > with what i have in Pharo. > > Any suggestion? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Alvaro Piorno > >
Re: [Pharo-users] New chapter for coming book: Messages
Stephane
Thank you for the reminder in the chapter that classes are cheap!
If I have a class hierarchy with 300 classes (for example builder
classes) but they all implement just one method (#build) then that is
not complex at all.
Another thing:
I assume you will have a chapter on visitors as well. Do you have an
outline / draft for that?
--Hannes
On 9/11/17, Stephane Ducasse wrote:
> tx for the feedback!
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:18 PM, H. Hirzel wrote:
>> Hello Stephane
>>
>> I like the emphasis of the chapter that implementing same selector
>> several times at the proper place in a couple of classes is more
>> important than to rely on inheritance.
>>
>> In particular the conclusion
>>
>>
>> What is important to realise is that classes are cheap. It is better
>> to write 5 little classes than a huge one. Some (even smart) people
>> got confused by measuring complexity of a system using number of
>> classes. Having many classes representing good abstractions with a
>> single responsibility is much much better than having a single class
>> exhibiting multiple responsibilities.
>>
>>
>> Suggestion: put it into a 'Note' box.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> And replace
>>
>> 'got confused'
>>
>> with:
>>
>>'get confused'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Replace:
>>
>> Now the choices can be made over multiple tenth of classes.
>>
>> 'multiple tenth' is an uncommon expression
>>
>> Suggestion:
>> Now the choices can be made over dozens of classes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> However
>> 'Sending a message is making a choice!'
>> takes the view point of the mechanism which does the late binding.
>>
>> If I write
>>
>> aNode emitHTML: aStream
>>
>> I do not make the choice. There are different types of nodes and they
>> all do the same in the sense that they produce HTML code.
>>
>> In any case to drive the point home more examples are needed.
>>
>> The Boolean example is the minimal example and as such is interesting.
>> But it is a borderline case which just illustrates that Smalltalk goes
>> a long way to implement the object and message pattern consistently.
>>
>> The Pillar example is fine but too terse.
>> For people who already understand the issue just a reference is fine.
>> But for people new to the concept of replacing a case statement with a
>> class hierarchy it is too short.
>>
>> Elaborate!
>>
>>
>> E.g. have a diagram for a subset of the hierarchy
>>
>> PRObject #(''properties'')
>> PRDocumentItem #(''counter'')
>> PRDocumentGroup #(''children'')
>> PRDocument #()
>> PRHeader #(''level'')
>> PRList #()
>> PROrderedList #()
>> PRUnorderedList #()
>> PRParagraph #()
>> PRReference #(''reference''
>> ''parameters'')
>> PRFigure #()
>> PRSlide #(''title'' ''label'')
>> PRText #(''text'')'
>>
>> And show all the emitHTML: messages.
>>
>>
>> And go for a third example, e.g. from Morphic or Bloc
>>
>>
>> position:
>> extent:
>> color:
>> owner:
>> submorphs:
>> drawOn: aCanvas
>>
>>
>> Meaning of last sentence is not clear.
>>
>>
>> Remember that when we execute a method (and also write it), one key
>> information we get is that the receiver from this class or one of its
>> subclasses as we will later.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Hannes
>>
>> On 9/11/17, Ricardo Pacheco wrote:
>>> Looks Great, congratulations!! I just read it and has a couple of
>>> mistakes
>>> in the first figures. The return value of the false (2.3, 2.4).
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Ricardo
>>>
>>> El sept. 11, 2017 12:12 AM, "Stephane Ducasse"
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> after this crazy esug I took a long bus and I wrote one missing
>>> chapter for the forhtcoming bus.
>>> I plan to have a first full version for 1 of October :)
>>>
>>> I reorganised and massively clean the book contents.
>>>
>>> Comments are welcome in any form.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/LearningOOPWithPharo
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: [Pharo-users] UFFI problem / doubt
Hi alvaro Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on UFFI let us know. I will let esteban anwser because I do not know. BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings? Stef On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno wrote: > Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library . > I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it. > I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer. > > This is the "new " ffiCall : > self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i)) > > And this is a "seter" ffiCall: > > self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ). > > I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating. > I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem > with what i have in Pharo. > Any suggestion? > Thanks in advance. > > Alvaro Piorno
Re: [Pharo-users] PlotMorph on Pharo 6.1
I'm on 10.12.6. too I downloaded Pharo 32 using the link. And I loaded from Catalog and I cannot get the problem. May be there is a problem with a setting in the compiler. I will talk to the guys monday. Stef On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Mark Bestley wrote: > Stephane Ducasse > wrote: > >> --001a113fc0fc9da22e05592a9f54 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> Hi mark >> >> live is chaotic here with two or three meetings in parallel, visitors, >> and a lecture to finish >> Now I tested. I took a Pharo 6.1 32 bits and loaded PlotMorph from the >> catalog >> It load Stefaneggermont.8 >> >> Can you tell us how to reproduce your problem? >> > > I get this on both 32 and 64 bit Pharo on OSX 10.12.6 > > Loaded a new Pharo from https://pharo.org/web/download and removed > previous Preferences > > Then from Calalog Browser > Install Stable Version > > Then get > >> > >> > Fetched -> ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.5 --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo60/main/ --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo60/main/ >> > Loaded -> ConfigurationOfPlotMorph-StephanEggermont.5 --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo60/main/ --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo60/main/ >> > Loading 1.1 of ConfigurationOfPlotMorph... >> > Fetched -> PlotMorph-StephanEggermont.8 --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/PharoExtras/PlotMorph/main/ --- >> > http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/PharoExtras/PlotMorph/main/ >> > OCStoreIntoReadOnlyVariableError: Cannot store into >> > PlotMorphGrid >> > drawGridOn: aCanvas >> > | gridColor lighter darker baseColor bounds | >> > baseColor := plot baseColor alpha: 1. >> > lighter := baseColor twiceLighter. >> > darker := baseColor twiceDarker. >> > gridColor := (lighter diff: baseColor) > (darker diff: baseColor) >> > ifTrue: [ lighter ] >> > ifFalse: [ darker ]. >> > bounds := plot drawBounds. >> > (bounds left to: bounds right by: (self bestStep: bounds width)) >> > do: [ :x | >> > x := x rounded. >> > aCanvas line: x @ bounds top to: x @ bounds bottom color: >> > gridColor ]. >> > (bounds top to: bounds bottom by: (self bestStep: bounds height)) >> > do: [ :y | >> > y := y rounded. >> > aCanvas line: bounds left @ y to: bounds right @ y color: >> > gridColor ] >> > OCStoreIntoReadOnlyVariableError: Cannot store into >> > PlotMorphGrid >> > drawGridOn: aCanvas >> > | gridColor lighter darker baseColor bounds | >> > baseColor := plot baseColor alpha: 1. >> > lighter := baseColor twiceLighter. >> > darker := baseColor twiceDarker. >> > gridColor := (lighter diff: baseColor) > (darker diff: baseColor) >> > ifTrue: [ lighter ] >> > ifFalse: [ darker ]. >> > bounds := plot drawBounds. >> > (bounds left to: bounds right by: (self bestStep: bounds width)) >> > do: [ :x | >> > x := x rounded. >> > aCanvas line: x @ bounds top to: x @ bounds bottom color: >> > gridColor ]. >> > (bounds top to: bounds bottom by: (self bestStep: bounds height)) >> > do: [ :y | >> > y := y rounded. >> > aCanvas line: bounds left @ y to: bounds right @ y color: >> > gridColor ] >> > OCStoreIntoReadOnlyVariableError: Cannot store into >> > AxesMorph >> > drawGridOn: aCanvas >> > | gridColor right bottom width height lighter darker baseColor | >> > baseColor := self baseColor. >> > lighter := baseColor twiceLighter. >> > darker := baseColor twiceDarker. >> > gridColor := (lighter diff: baseColor) > (darker diff: baseColor) >> > ifTrue: [ lighter ] >> > ifFalse: [ darker ]. >> > right := self bounds width - margin. >> > width := self bounds width - (margin * 2). >> > bottom := self bounds height - margin. >> > height := self bounds height - (margin * 2). >> > (margin to: right by: width / 10) >> > do: [ :x | >> > x := x rounded. >> > aCanvas line: x @ margin to: x @ bottom color: gridColor ]. >> > (margin to: bottom by: height / 10) >> > do: [ :y | >> > y := y rounded. >> > aCanvas line: margin @ y to: right @ y color: gridColor ] >> > OCStoreIntoReadOnlyVariableError: Cannot store into >> > AxesMorph >> > drawGridOn: aCanvas >> > | gridColor right bottom width height lighter darker baseColor | >> > baseColor := self baseColor. >> > lighter := baseColor twiceLighter. >> > darker := baseColor twiceDarker. >> > gridColor := (lighter diff: baseColor) > (darker diff: baseColor) >> > ifTrue: [ lighter ] >> > ifFalse: [ darker ]. >> > right := self bounds width - margin. >> > width := self bounds width - (margin * 2). >> > bottom := self bounds height - margin. >> > height := self bounds height - (margin * 2). >> > (margin to: right by: width / 10)
Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question
I do not think that the bootstrap changed anything. :) We will stay away from GPL. May be you can talk to the people of the libraries you want to use and see if they are interested in a dual license. Stef On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > Hello, > > Pharo 7 to my understanding fundamentally changes Pharo. It is my > understanding that Pharo 7 starts with a core Pharo kernel and like many > languages out there, imports or adds code from a variety of external sources > to the image being built. > > With that understanding, I am curious if that would allow for inclusion of a > specific library/module to be licensed as GPL? And it not affect the other > code in the composed image? > > I am a big believer in the MIT/BSD license and not a big fan of the GPL. > However, there is software out there that I have avoided looking at the > source code or attempting to port it to Pharo because it is GPL. I would > sincerely love if I could now port such a library and license it under the > GPL as required, and it not affect any other code outside of that specific > library. > > I am not a lawyer. Nor do I know any lawyers. Is is possible for someone to > get a reasonably definitive answer on this question? > > I am sure I am not the only one who has had this desire. I am also sure that > I am not the only one who will have this question in the future. So it would > be nice to have a proper legal response that could possibly be explicitly > stated somewhere on the website or on an FAQ or something. > > Regardless of the answer, yes or no. It does need to be a settled issue for > Pharo. That way someone could know if GPL/LGPL or whatever software could be > in the catalog. > > Just wanted to put that out there to the community. I look forward to the > answer, should one be or become available. > > Thanks. > > > Jimmie > > >
