[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
The idea is, I have been a software engineer for the past three decades. I REALLY love my profession (even though now, it’s pretty much sitting in meetings all day), but I love it. I have a few projects I always wanted to do, because I just want to do them because they are useful to me. I have architected and coded hundreds of giant projects. At this point, building anything with the big web frameworks just seems exhausting. I have decided to bring each of these pet projects to fruition and then document how and why i made each decision. Every project will be using smalltalk as the data store. If the project is a website, I will use seaside as the web framework. Otherwise, I’ll use the teapot as an API interface. The series of articles I will write will be aimed at people in my position. People who are familiar with software development, and would like to read about it at a higher than tutorial level. In the end, I’ll end up with: - an application of some sort that scratches my own itch - a pile of articles outlining how i designed the tool set for the application. and in reality, it’s gonna be thinly veiled Smalltalk evangelism. But i think it might be worthwhile to talk about this stuff in a pubilc platform. > On Jan 18, 2024, at 10:34 AM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > > Can you sketch out the complexity aspects of your five projects? Is this all > for learning, or are they “production” applications? Do you want to gain > experience with different ways to persist data, or are you just thinking that > you have to use different ways due to project complexity? It might be peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
Can you sketch out the complexity aspects of your five projects? Is this all for learning, or are they “production” applications? Do you want to gain experience with different ways to persist data, or are you just thinking that you have to use different ways due to project complexity? It might be that Soil database could handle all your use cases, so you could avoid working through a bunch of databases, unless you want to. On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 8:56 AM sergio ruiz wrote: > I figured Gemstones would be SUPER heavy handed for this application, but > I have a list of five projects, each increasing in complexity that I want > to launch and document. So, sooner or later, I will need a more robust > solution. > > Thanks! > > > > On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > GemStone is a huge thing to tame. I would not say the above and GemStone > are alternatives. GemStone is a lot to install and learn but you get > something that makes it hard to corrupt your data. So you have requirements > that make it fit into GemStone or you have requirements that make it a fit > for STON. Between both there is no overlap but rather a huge gap between > the applicability of each. > > > > peace, > sergio > photographer, journalist, visionary > > Public Key: > https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 > #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV > @sergio_101@mastodon.social > https://sergio101.com > http://www.codeandmusic.com > http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 > http://www.facebook.com/sergio101 > >
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
> Am 18.01.2024 um 14:54 schrieb sergio ruiz :
>
> Using this Will my links remain viable using this method?
>
> Meaning that an event has a theater. That theater is also in the
> OrderedCollection of Theaters.
>
> If the name of he theater changed in the Theaters collection, will that name
> change occur in the event theater object?
>
> After bringing these collections back in via STON, will all of these
> relationships remain intact?
If with relationship you mean that one object event has a reference to a
theater object then yes. STON serializes the graph as objects and all
references will be reestablished on materialization.
Norbert
>
>
>
>> On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>>
>> If you have three classes with class side collections you can have a make
>> e.g. a dictionary and put the collections from the class side into it like
>>
>> model := {
>>#theaters -> Theater instances.
>>#movies -> Movie instances.
>>#event -> Event instances.
>> } asDictionary.
>>
>
>
>
>
> peace,
> sergio
> photographer, journalist, visionary
>
> Public Key:
> https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2
> #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV
> @sergio_101@mastodon.social
> https://sergio101.com
> http://www.codeandmusic.com
> http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101
> http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
>
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
I figured Gemstones would be SUPER heavy handed for this application, but I have a list of five projects, each increasing in complexity that I want to launch and document. So, sooner or later, I will need a more robust solution. Thanks! > On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > GemStone is a huge thing to tame. I would not say the above and GemStone are > alternatives. GemStone is a lot to install and learn but you get something > that makes it hard to corrupt your data. So you have requirements that make > it fit into GemStone or you have requirements that make it a fit for STON. > Between both there is no overlap but rather a huge gap between the > applicability of each. peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
Using this Will my links remain viable using this method?
Meaning that an event has a theater. That theater is also in the
OrderedCollection of Theaters.
If the name of he theater changed in the Theaters collection, will that name
change occur in the event theater object?
After bringing these collections back in via STON, will all of these
relationships remain intact?
> On Jan 18, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>
> If you have three classes with class side collections you can have a make
> e.g. a dictionary and put the collections from the class side into it like
>
> model := {
>#theaters -> Theater instances.
>#movies -> Movie instances.
>#event -> Event instances.
> } asDictionary.
>
peace,
sergio
photographer, journalist, visionary
Public Key:
https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2
#BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV
@sergio_101@mastodon.social
https://sergio101.com
http://www.codeandmusic.com
http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101
http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
OOH.. I like this idea. I’ll do a quick test on this and see if it works as expected.. For now, I want to store the data in the image. The trick is, I like to start with a fresh image every few days. So, I’d like to open a new Pharo, pull the source code, then pull the data. Thanks! > > If you are keeping data in a Pharo image then you could just save the image > instead of using STON. Alternatively, you could model your data in an > Application class with three instance variables: theaters, movies, and > events. Then you could dump the root application object and STON should > preserve the relationships (I expect). I prefer this model since it allows me > to create a test object that encapsulates all the data in one place (even if > it is referenced from a class variable). peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV @sergio_101@mastodon.social https://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
I think it depends how many objects you have and what your consistency
requirements are.
> Am 18.01.2024 um 05:48 schrieb sergio ruiz :
>
> I have been in the relational database world for decades. One of the things
> that is super simple is backing up and restoring data.
>
> Sometimes, it makes it makes sense to pull the production data into
> development. In the case of a catastrophe, it’s super simple to restore data
> from a backup.
>
> I am thinking of backup strategies for my data once again, and am wondering
> if things have changed since I was last using smalltalk.
>
> I am thinking of the following:
>
> STON
> I could dump all of my data into STON, but there is one slight twist. In this
> project, it’s just making a list of movie listings. There are three basic
> classes: Theater, Movie, Event. Each of these classes stores an
> OrderedCollection of items of that type on a class variable, as I’ll need to
> access each on their own.. so, if an event has a theater, I’ll need to access
> Theaters on their own, and Movies on their own.
>
> So, I would have to rebuild the list of Theaters from the Theaters in each
> event. Otherwise, I would lose the link between the Theaters on the Theater
> class variable and the Theater in the Event instance.
> Am I thinking about this incorrectly?
If you have three classes with class side collections you can have a make e.g.
a dictionary and put the collections from the class side into it like
model := {
#theaters -> Theater instances.
#movies -> Movie instances.
#event -> Event instances.
} asDictionary.
The model object you can use with STON or fuel to store it and on reading back
you store each of the values back on the class side variable. Simple and nice.
I would use STON for that because it is equivalent to fuel but fuel has
migration problems. Or better you need to load all your data, update fuel to a
newer version and write it again with the new fuel version. STON is more
reliable in that regard. Both have the problem that when objects change during
serialization you might corrupt the structure of your data,
>
> Gemstones
> I am totally into the idea of using gemstones. Is there a backup and restore
> for objects here? do the relationships remain?
>
GemStone is a huge thing to tame. I would not say the above and GemStone are
alternatives. GemStone is a lot to install and learn but you get something that
makes it hard to corrupt your data. So you have requirements that make it fit
into GemStone or you have requirements that make it a fit for STON. Between
both there is no overlap but rather a huge gap between the applicability of
each.
> Voyage
> This seems like a good solution, but I would rather stay in the smalltalk
> object store.
>
Absolutely. Voyage is good for some use cases but you have to deal with mongoDB
(not sure the small libraries work right now)
You could also consider using soil (https://github.com/ApptiveGrid/Soil)
I might be a bit biased here :) but for most use cases this is the best of all
the worlds described aboved. Even if there it has no release yet (coming soon)
it is quite stable.
Hope this helps,
Norbert
> Ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> peace,
> sergio
> photographer, journalist, visionary
>
> Public Key:
> https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2
> #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV
> @sergio_101@mastodon.social
> https://sergio101.com
> http://www.codeandmusic.com
> http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101
> http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
>
[Pharo-users] Re: FUEL version migration
Solved! See the solution for FUEL migration issues here: https://github.com/theseion/Fuel/issues/289#issuecomment-1896454432 CheersDavide On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 07:48:47 PM GMT+1, Davide Varvello via Pharo-users wrote: Hi Guys,How can I migrate from Fuel version 3.0.2 to the latest one? This: https://theseion.github.io/Fuel/format-migration/ seems osbolete TIA Davide
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
+1 for Fuel, see here https://github.com/theseion/Fuel CheersDavide On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 09:37:21 AM GMT+1, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-users wrote: You want to look at Fuel, a serialization library. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 17, 2024, at 9:49 PM, sergio ruiz wrote: I have been in the relational database world for decades. One of the things that is super simple is backing up and restoring data. Sometimes, it makes it makes sense to pull the production data into development. In the case of a catastrophe, it’s super simple to restore data from a backup. I am thinking of backup strategies for my data once again, and am wondering if things have changed since I was last using smalltalk. I am thinking of the following: STONI could dump all of my data into STON, but there is one slight twist. In this project, it’s just making a list of movie listings. There are three basic classes: Theater, Movie, Event. Each of these classes stores an OrderedCollection of items of that type on a class variable, as I’ll need to access each on their own.. so, if an event has a theater, I’ll need to access Theaters on their own, and Movies on their own. So, I would have to rebuild the list of Theaters from the Theaters in each event. Otherwise, I would lose the link between the Theaters on the Theater class variable and the Theater in the Event instance. Am I thinking about this incorrectly? GemstonesI am totally into the idea of using gemstones. Is there a backup and restore for objects here? do the relationships remain? VoyageThis seems like a good solution, but I would rather stay in the smalltalk object store. Ideas? Thanks! peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key: https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV@sergio_101@mastodon.socialhttps://sergio101.com http://www.codeandmusic.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101
[Pharo-users] Re: Backing up data
You want to look at Fuel, a serialization library. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 17, 2024, at 9:49 PM, sergio ruiz wrote: > > I have been in the relational database world for decades. One of the things > that is super simple is backing up and restoring data. > > Sometimes, it makes it makes sense to pull the production data into > development. In the case of a catastrophe, it’s super simple to restore data > from a backup. > > I am thinking of backup strategies for my data once again, and am wondering > if things have changed since I was last using smalltalk. > > I am thinking of the following: > > STON > I could dump all of my data into STON, but there is one slight twist. In this > project, it’s just making a list of movie listings. There are three basic > classes: Theater, Movie, Event. Each of these classes stores an > OrderedCollection of items of that type on a class variable, as I’ll need to > access each on their own.. so, if an event has a theater, I’ll need to access > Theaters on their own, and Movies on their own. > > So, I would have to rebuild the list of Theaters from the Theaters in each > event. Otherwise, I would lose the link between the Theaters on the Theater > class variable and the Theater in the Event instance. > > Am I thinking about this incorrectly? > > Gemstones > I am totally into the idea of using gemstones. Is there a backup and restore > for objects here? do the relationships remain? > > Voyage > This seems like a good solution, but I would rather stay in the smalltalk > object store. > > Ideas? > > Thanks! > > > peace, > sergio > photographer, journalist, visionary > > Public Key: > https://pgp.key-server.io/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x69B08F58923AB3A2 > #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV > @sergio_101@mastodon.social > https://sergio101.com > http://www.codeandmusic.com > http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 > http://www.facebook.com/sergio101 >
