Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread Sean P. DeNigris 
Marcus Denker-4 wrote
> I personally would even go back to the single key press ones...
> 
> But lets discuss that *after* we finish the release… ;-)

+1 to both



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread stepharo 
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:27 PM, stepharo > wrote:


As soon as Pharo 5.0 is out it will get in :)
Again we will do videos and I do not want to have to work at that
time on it.

We will have to fix all the shortcuts also because we still have
Cmd + m and Cmd b+m

;)



I'm presuming you mean its a problem having both, and I guess the 
move is towards having only the double-keypress?  I'm going to 
overreact here and say DO NOT REMOVE SINGLE KEYPRESS #IMPLEMENTORS.


I do not have any preconceived point of view except that this is plain 
bad to have two differents and inconsistent ways.
If cmd M would work in addition to cmd b + M why not but this exclusive 
behavior is terrible.




I personally would even go back to the single key press ones...


:)


But lets discuss that *after* we finish the release… ;-)


Yes.

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread Marcus Denker 

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 13:49, Ben Coman  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:27 PM, stepharo  > wrote:
> As soon as Pharo 5.0 is out it will get in :)
> Again we will do videos and I do not want to have to work at that time on it.
> 
> We will have to fix all the shortcuts also because we still have
> Cmd + m and Cmd b+m
> 
> ;)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm presuming you mean its a problem having both, and I guess the move is 
> towards having only the double-keypress?  I'm going to overreact here and say 
> DO NOT REMOVE SINGLE KEYPRESS #IMPLEMENTORS.
> 

I personally would even go back to the single key press ones...

But lets discuss that *after* we finish the release… ;-)

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread Ben Coman 
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 3:27 PM, stepharo  wrote:

> As soon as Pharo 5.0 is out it will get in :)
> Again we will do videos and I do not want to have to work at that time on
> it.
>
> We will have to fix all the shortcuts also because we still have
> Cmd + m and Cmd b+m
>
> ;)
>
>
>
I'm presuming you mean its a problem having both, and I guess the move is
towards having only the double-keypress?  I'm going to overreact here and
say DO NOT REMOVE SINGLE KEYPRESS #IMPLEMENTORS.

So what actually is the plan here?  Obviously there are different contexts
(Browser Navigation; Browser Code Pane; Workspace/Playground; Debugger).
Single-keypress-implementors is gone from Browser Navigation. Where else
would consider eliminating single-keypress-implementors?

Maybe its a very personal thing, but I still need to be convinced that
double key combinations works better.  I'm living with it, but it occurred
to me recently that I'm using the mouse to select from menus more than I
used to, and this seems a cause.   Maybe I'm just slow to adapt and
remember the double keypress combinations.  This would be a particularly
good area to gather some instrumented user UI data.

Also, remind me what was the driver for double-keypress?

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread Marcus Denker 

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 08:27, stepharo  wrote:
> 
> As soon as Pharo 5.0 is out it will get in :)
> Again we will do videos and I do not want to have to work at that time on it.
> 

Yes, but of course Pharo will change in the future… the idea that it will stay
as it is now should not be the goal...

> We will have to fix all the shortcuts also because we still have
>Cmd + m and Cmd b+m
> 
Yes, for Pharo5 we need to tackle the shortcut - unification.

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread stepharo 

As soon as Pharo 5.0 is out it will get in :)
Again we will do videos and I do not want to have to work at that time 
on it.


We will have to fix all the shortcuts also because we still have
Cmd + m and Cmd b+m

;)

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-22 Thread Marcus Denker 

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 00:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> 
> But seriously, for 4.0 ?
> Now ?
> 

No, for Pharo5 of course. If you check the issue, it has explicit the Milestone 
“Later”.

For Pharo4, we need to be careful: there are still 57 open issues, and it will 
be a challenge
to fix them in one week…

Marcus

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-21 Thread Sven Van Caekenberghe 
But seriously, for 4.0 ?
Now ?

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 00:04, Nicolai Hess  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2015-03-21 23:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo :
> Hi
> 
> I want to clean Nautilus and to simplify its code and functionality.
> In addition I want to reduce to student load in the context of the Mooc we 
> will start to work on.
> So I want to remove the lock mechanism and the multiple methods. This was an 
> experience that did not
> really work. It was nice to try but it is time to remove that.
> 
> +1 (I never understood how to use this lock)
> 
> 
>  
> So I hope that not many people use this feature.
> 
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15199
> 
> After I will start to clean the group to keep a consistent and useful subset.
> 
> Stef
> 
> 
>

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Cleaning/Simplifying Nautilus

2015-03-21 Thread Nicolai Hess 
2015-03-21 23:02 GMT+01:00 stepharo :

> Hi
>
> I want to clean Nautilus and to simplify its code and functionality.
> In addition I want to reduce to student load in the context of the Mooc we
> will start to work on.
> So I want to remove the lock mechanism and the multiple methods. This was
> an experience that did not
> really work. It was nice to try but it is time to remove that.
>

+1 (I never understood how to use this lock)




> So I hope that not many people use this feature.
>
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15199
>
> After I will start to clean the group to keep a consistent and useful
> subset.
>
> Stef
>
>
>