Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Dimitris Chloupis]

there is intersection afterall interactive documentation is the holy grail
of documentation. I would love to have that. I was thinking making my
Prometheas project not just a a bunch of pillar files but also an internal
tool inside pharo that can show you titles of chapters of documentation
which will link to the htmls produced by pillar in several books and open a
web browser so the pharo users seens the very latest of documentation in a
application he is very familiar with web browser. That should be easy
enough to do.

Your approach and tools can play the role of interactive tutorials , like
ProfStef but of course with far more flexibility. So I would love to be
kept up to date to your progress and I am definetly very interested. Thank
you for bringing this to my attention I will definetly include it in
Prometheus.

On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 12:16 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <
offray.l...@mutabit.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Nice to see this efforts.
>
> I will try to help with my interactive notebook documentation project for
> reproducible/open research and by making visualization for more diverse
> fields, mainly data activism: Panama Papers[1], Political
> discourses[2](should be updated), but also medicines [3]. Also I'm making
> some builders to make more easy specific domain visualizations and
> re-reading, this time deeply, the Agile Visualization book and making some
> comments (i.e [4][5])
>
> [1] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1
> [2]
> http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/visualizing-politicianspolitical-discourses-on-twitter.html
> [3] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed
> [4]
> https://hyp.is/8hHnlCHzEeaIfiOOWSL11w/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html
> [5]
> https://hyp.is/44eZbiHxEeaykduI7FzoXQ/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html
>
> I just tell this because at some point could be an
> intersection/complementarity from the documentation point and helps to have
> this overview of where people is focused and trying to contribute. I don't
> know if there is a place where interested can find where other people is
> doing that is not properly software (or is not integrated yet into
> software)... kind of related project/interest in Pharo.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
> On 24/05/16 15:55, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> WOW I did not expect so many replies
>
> Its amazing you guys work on a minimal image, since that is the case I
> will wait for you experts to deliver and instead as you advise me Esteban I
> will focus my effort on documentation, it looks like I have come to a
> decision to contribute to pharo in 3 ways
>
> 1) Make a theme for pharo which is very modern flexible and super easy to
> customise to whatever one wants, a theme to rule them all -> Nireas (its
> there but needs a lot of improvement)
> 2) Make an API for Blender that will allow pharo developers to take
> advantage of Blender awesome graphics capabilities -> Ephestos (same as
> above)
> 3) Contribute to documentation both via pillar and class and method
> comments. -> Prometheas (same as above)
>
> I am sure the minimal image that you will provide will be perfect for my
> needs. I dont mind size per se, just system complexity.
>
> I agree again with you Esteban that it would be better to let the
> maintaince of a minimal image to pharo devs since I think we are all in the
> same page and instead tackle areas of my expertise like graphics, theme and
> documentation.
>
> I was just thinking how I could help Pharo the best way and I think these
> 3 projects are more than enough to keep me occupied.
>
> The linked image you posted does not open after I download it and unzip
> it. Does it require a special VM or is it something else ?
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:28 PM Thierry Goubier 
> wrote:
>
>> 2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano :
>>
>>>
>>> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>>>
 Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted
 it to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
 correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
 that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
 majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
 have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
 is currently for Blender.

 My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that
 is simple, and easy to use and learn.

 So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
 being a dream for Ephestos.

 By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is
 there any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?

>>>
>>> There is a minimal image, whic

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,

Nice to see this efforts.

I will try to help with my interactive notebook documentation project 
for reproducible/open research and by making visualization for more 
diverse fields, mainly data activism: Panama Papers[1], Political 
discourses[2](should be updated), but also medicines [3]. Also I'm 
making some builders to make more easy specific domain visualizations 
and re-reading, this time deeply, the Agile Visualization book and 
making some comments (i.e [4][5])


[1] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1
[2] 
http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/visualizing-politicianspolitical-discourses-on-twitter.html

[3] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed
[4] 
https://hyp.is/8hHnlCHzEeaIfiOOWSL11w/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html
[5] 
https://hyp.is/44eZbiHxEeaykduI7FzoXQ/dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/AgileVisualization/QuickStart/0101-QuickStart.html


I just tell this because at some point could be an 
intersection/complementarity from the documentation point and helps to 
have this overview of where people is focused and trying to contribute. 
I don't know if there is a place where interested can find where other 
people is doing that is not properly software (or is not integrated yet 
into software)... kind of related project/interest in Pharo.


Cheers,

Offray

On 24/05/16 15:55, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:

WOW I did not expect so many replies

Its amazing you guys work on a minimal image, since that is the case I 
will wait for you experts to deliver and instead as you advise me 
Esteban I will focus my effort on documentation, it looks like I have 
come to a decision to contribute to pharo in 3 ways


1) Make a theme for pharo which is very modern flexible and super easy 
to customise to whatever one wants, a theme to rule them all -> Nireas 
(its there but needs a lot of improvement)
2) Make an API for Blender that will allow pharo developers to take 
advantage of Blender awesome graphics capabilities -> Ephestos (same 
as above)
3) Contribute to documentation both via pillar and class and method 
comments. -> Prometheas (same as above)


I am sure the minimal image that you will provide will be perfect for 
my needs. I dont mind size per se, just system complexity.


I agree again with you Esteban that it would be better to let the 
maintaince of a minimal image to pharo devs since I think we are all 
in the same page and instead tackle areas of my expertise like 
graphics, theme and documentation.


I was just thinking how I could help Pharo the best way and I think 
these 3 projects are more than enough to keep me occupied.


The linked image you posted does not open after I download it and 
unzip it. Does it require a special VM or is it something else ?


On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:28 PM Thierry Goubier 
mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:


2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>>:



On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier
mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:



2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis
mailto:kilon.al...@gmail.com>>:

Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also
always wanted it to be friendly to begineers . So nope ,
its same project. And you are correct its still focused
in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I
want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the
massive majority to give up the comforts of python but
for those that are curious I have to provide an
enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is
currently for Blender.

My goal is to provide a development enviroment for
Blender addons that is simple, and easy to use and learn.

So providing a minimal pharo image that is self
documented has always being a dream for Ephestos.

By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo
image ? Is there any work done to provide a minimal pharo
image ?


There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is,
except that what you want is something in between the minimal
image (no gui, no tools) and a full image, and that is a bit
complex to set-up.

I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place
with baselines I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main
repository and load the right packages), but Pharo5 changed
the way external projects are included, and my approach
wasn't good anymore.

I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from
such an effort; it would exercise all the planned mechanisms
for the modular image, in maybe an easier way than a modular
full image, and with someone motivated to debug and maintain

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Dimitris Chloupis]

WOW I did not expect so many replies

Its amazing you guys work on a minimal image, since that is the case I will
wait for you experts to deliver and instead as you advise me Esteban I will
focus my effort on documentation, it looks like I have come to a decision
to contribute to pharo in 3 ways

1) Make a theme for pharo which is very modern flexible and super easy to
customise to whatever one wants, a theme to rule them all -> Nireas (its
there but needs a lot of improvement)
2) Make an API for Blender that will allow pharo developers to take
advantage of Blender awesome graphics capabilities -> Ephestos (same as
above)
3) Contribute to documentation both via pillar and class and method
comments. -> Prometheas (same as above)

I am sure the minimal image that you will provide will be perfect for my
needs. I dont mind size per se, just system complexity.

I agree again with you Esteban that it would be better to let the
maintaince of a minimal image to pharo devs since I think we are all in the
same page and instead tackle areas of my expertise like graphics, theme and
documentation.

I was just thinking how I could help Pharo the best way and I think these 3
projects are more than enough to keep me occupied.

The linked image you posted does not open after I download it and unzip it.
Does it require a special VM or is it something else ?

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:28 PM Thierry Goubier 
wrote:

> 2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano :
>
>>
>> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>>
>>> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it
>>> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
>>> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
>>> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
>>> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
>>> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
>>> is currently for Blender.
>>>
>>> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that
>>> is simple, and easy to use and learn.
>>>
>>> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
>>> being a dream for Ephestos.
>>>
>>> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is
>>> there any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>>>
>>
>> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what
>> you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a
>> full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.
>>
>> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines
>> I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the
>> right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included,
>> and my approach wasn't good anymore.
>>
>> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort;
>> it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in
>> maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated
>> to debug and maintain the process: you!
>>
>>
>> honestly, I wouldn’t.
>> working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I know
>> something about keeping an image going).
>>
>
> Well, I am technically working in a parallel image for the past ... 3
> years ? So, no, as long as you handle a changing minimal image and a well
> mastered set of slow changing packages over it, it is doable.
>
> The base Pharo isn't changing much. As long as you don't use what is
> changing a lot, then this is doable. Maintaining changes all over all the
> fast moving packages that are in the full Pharo, then I agree with you,
> Esteban.
>
>
>> Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who should be
>> working in one-two months, with that, building custom images will be
>> finally a reality…from there you might want to give it a try.
>>
>
> This, given the timeframe, is both an excellent suggestion and good to
> know :)
>
>
>> But I would better invest on document (something that you have been doing
>> very well and I’m very thankful for that) than in keeping alive what is, in
>> fact, a fork.
>>
>
> Racing to document all the fast moving packages in Pharo can really be a
> challenge, still.
>
> Thierry
>
>
>>
>> cheers,
>> Esteban
>>
>>
>> Thierry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>>>
 On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
  wrote:
 > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
 Torsten
 > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which
 has
 > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
 commented
 > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
 tool.
 

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Thierry Goubier]

2016-05-24 16:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano :

>
> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>
>> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it
>> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
>> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
>> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
>> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
>> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
>> is currently for Blender.
>>
>> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is
>> simple, and easy to use and learn.
>>
>> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
>> being a dream for Ephestos.
>>
>> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there
>> any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>>
>
> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what
> you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a
> full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.
>
> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines
> I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the
> right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included,
> and my approach wasn't good anymore.
>
> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort;
> it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in
> maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated
> to debug and maintain the process: you!
>
>
> honestly, I wouldn’t.
> working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I know something
> about keeping an image going).
>

Well, I am technically working in a parallel image for the past ... 3 years
? So, no, as long as you handle a changing minimal image and a well
mastered set of slow changing packages over it, it is doable.

The base Pharo isn't changing much. As long as you don't use what is
changing a lot, then this is doable. Maintaining changes all over all the
fast moving packages that are in the full Pharo, then I agree with you,
Esteban.


> Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who should be
> working in one-two months, with that, building custom images will be
> finally a reality…from there you might want to give it a try.
>

This, given the timeframe, is both an excellent suggestion and good to know
:)


> But I would better invest on document (something that you have been doing
> very well and I’m very thankful for that) than in keeping alive what is, in
> fact, a fork.
>

Racing to document all the fast moving packages in Pharo can really be a
challenge, still.

Thierry


>
> cheers,
> Esteban
>
>
> Thierry
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>>>  wrote:
>>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
>>> Torsten
>>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which
>>> has
>>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
>>> commented
>>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
>>> tool.
>>> >
>>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to
>>> make
>>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
>>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>>> >
>>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via
>>> Github.
>>> >
>>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>>> >
>>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier
>>> (improve
>>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have
>>> everything
>>> > commented and self documented.
>>> >
>>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the
>>> park
>>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as
>>> good as
>>> > any
>>>
>>> Did this project not pane out?...
>>>
>>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>>>
>>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>>>
>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:22, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 24 May 2016, at 16:16, Dimitris Chloupis > > wrote:
>> 
>> thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ?
> 
> 
> Pharo 6.0 minimal image 
> 
… but since the shrinking process is not working, it has the same size as the 
full version :)

> 
> Esteban 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:16, Dimitris Chloupis  wrote:
> 
> thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ?


Pharo 6.0 minimal image 

Esteban 

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Pavel Krivanek]

2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :

> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it
> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
> is currently for Blender.
>
> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is
> simple, and easy to use and learn.
>
> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
> being a dream for Ephestos.
>
> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there
> any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>

Hi,

work is in progress:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/6.0-SysConf/

The first image with GUI that is usable from the user point of view is
ConfigurationOfUI.

Give us few weeks to finish it...

-- Pavel


>
> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>>  wrote:
>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
>> Torsten
>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which
>> has
>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
>> commented
>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
>> tool.
>> >
>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to
>> make
>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>> >
>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via
>> Github.
>> >
>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>> >
>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier
>> (improve
>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
>> > commented and self documented.
>> >
>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the
>> park
>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good
>> as
>> > any
>>
>> Did this project not pane out?...
>>
>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>>
>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>>

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 24 May 2016, at 16:11, Thierry Goubier  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis  >:
> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it to 
> be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are correct 
> its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I 
> want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive majority to 
> give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I have to 
> provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is 
> currently for Blender. 
> 
> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is 
> simple, and easy to use and learn. 
> 
> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always being a 
> dream for Ephestos. 
> 
> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there any 
> work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
> 
> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what you 
> want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a full 
> image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.
> 
> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines I 
> could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the right 
> packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included, and my 
> approach wasn't good anymore.
> 
> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort; it 
> would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in maybe an 
> easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated to debug and 
> maintain the process: you!

honestly, I wouldn’t. 
working in a parallel image is too much work (believe me, I know something 
about keeping an image going).
Pavel and Christophe are working on the bootstrap process who should be working 
in one-two months, with that, building custom images will be finally a 
reality…from there you might want to give it a try.
But I would better invest on document (something that you have been doing very 
well and I’m very thankful for that) than in keeping alive what is, in fact, a 
fork.
 
cheers,
Esteban

> 
> Thierry
> 
> 
>  
> 
> I would hate to replicate what is already done. 
> 
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  > wrote:
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
> mailto:kilon.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten
> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has
> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented
> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool.
> >
> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make
> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
> > simplicity and ease of use.
> >
> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github.
> >
> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve
> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
> > commented and self documented.
> >
> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park
> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as
> > any
> 
> Did this project not pane out?...
> 
> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>  
> 
> 
> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Dimitris Chloupis]

thanks for the info Thierry where I can find the minimal image ?

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 5:12 PM Thierry Goubier 
wrote:

> 2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>
>> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it
>> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
>> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
>> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
>> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
>> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
>> is currently for Blender.
>>
>> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is
>> simple, and easy to use and learn.
>>
>> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
>> being a dream for Ephestos.
>>
>> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there
>> any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>>
>
> There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what
> you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a
> full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.
>
> I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines
> I could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the
> right packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included,
> and my approach wasn't good anymore.
>
> I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort;
> it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in
> maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated
> to debug and maintain the process: you!
>
> Thierry
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>>>  wrote:
>>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
>>> Torsten
>>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which
>>> has
>>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
>>> commented
>>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
>>> tool.
>>> >
>>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to
>>> make
>>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
>>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>>> >
>>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via
>>> Github.
>>> >
>>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>>> >
>>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier
>>> (improve
>>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have
>>> everything
>>> > commented and self documented.
>>> >
>>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the
>>> park
>>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as
>>> good as
>>> > any
>>>
>>> Did this project not pane out?...
>>>
>>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>>>
>>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>>>
>>> cheers -ben
>>>
>>>

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Thierry Goubier]

2016-05-24 15:18 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis :

> Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it
> to be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are
> correct its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation
> that if I want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive
> majority to give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I
> have to provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python
> is currently for Blender.
>
> My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is
> simple, and easy to use and learn.
>
> So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always
> being a dream for Ephestos.
>
> By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there
> any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?
>

There is a minimal image, which is I think usable as-is, except that what
you want is something in between the minimal image (no gui, no tools) and a
full image, and that is a bit complex to set-up.

I started some work on doing that with Pharo4 (put a place with baselines I
could use to load the HEAD of the Pharo main repository and load the right
packages), but Pharo5 changed the way external projects are included, and
my approach wasn't good anymore.

I think the overall Pharo organisation could benefit from such an effort;
it would exercise all the planned mechanisms for the modular image, in
maybe an easier way than a modular full image, and with someone motivated
to debug and maintain the process: you!

Thierry




>
> I would hate to replicate what is already done.
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>>  wrote:
>> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from
>> Torsten
>> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which
>> has
>> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
>> commented
>> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
>> tool.
>> >
>> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to
>> make
>> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
>> > simplicity and ease of use.
>> >
>> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via
>> Github.
>> >
>> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>> >
>> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier
>> (improve
>> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
>> > commented and self documented.
>> >
>> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the
>> park
>> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good
>> as
>> > any
>>
>> Did this project not pane out?...
>>
>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>>
>> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
>> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>>

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Dimitris Chloupis]

Well technically the python part works fine, BUT I also always wanted it to
be friendly to begineers . So nope , its same project. And you are correct
its still focused in coding 3d graphics but I came to realisation that if I
want some people to use it, obviously i dont expect the massive majority to
give up the comforts of python but for those that are curious I have to
provide an enviroment thats is even easier to code in than python is
currently for Blender.

My goal is to provide a development enviroment for Blender addons that is
simple, and easy to use and learn.

So providing a minimal pharo image that is self documented has always being
a dream for Ephestos.

By the way whats the news on the matter of modular pharo image ? Is there
any work done to provide a minimal pharo image ?

I would hate to replicate what is already done.

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 3:59 PM Ben Coman  wrote:

> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>  wrote:
> > So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten
> > Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has
> > the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full
> commented
> > in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help
> tool.
> >
> > So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make
> > pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
> > simplicity and ease of use.
> >
> > I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github.
> >
> > But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve
> > theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
> > commented and self documented.
> >
> > Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the
> park
> > but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good
> as
> > any
>
> Did this project not pane out?...
>
> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/
>
> Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
> but is there a minor chance of confusion?
>
> cheers -ben
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
 wrote:
> So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten
> Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has
> the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented
> in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool.
>
> So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make
> pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
> simplicity and ease of use.
>
> I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github.
>
> But I am open to ideas and suggestions.
>
> My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve
> theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
> commented and self documented.
>
> Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park
> but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as
> any

Did this project not pane out?...

https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/ephestos-using-and-coding-blender-from-inside-pharo/

Seems you're quite attached to that name :)
but is there a minor chance of confusion?

cheers -ben

[Pharo-users] An Idea for a minimal self documented begineer friendly pharo image

[Dimitris Chloupis]

So I was reading the complains from Sven and got Inspiration from Torsten
Pharo image and CUIs and made me wonder what if we had an image which has
the least amount of libraries and every library inside it is full commented
in class, package and method and even has tutorial using inside help tool.

So I think I will give this project a try. I know there is a plan to make
pharo image more modular, but modularity does not equal minimalism ,
simplicity and ease of use.

I think I will follow the CUIs example and do the development via Github.

But I am open to ideas and suggestions.

My intention is to remove the excess fat, to make Pharo prettier (improve
theme support and make available several themes ) and to have everything
commented and self documented.

Obviously this will be a long term project and in no way a walk in the park
but I was looking for a nice project to name "Ephestos" :D seem as good as
any