[Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel sabine.knoe...@gmail.com: Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Hi Norbert, thank you very much for the clarification. I had to read it several times but now I understand and I know what to change in my model for this (something with references to objects which have been deleted by the user). Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Greets Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] ml-node+s1294792n4725577...@n4.nabble.com wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725577i=0: Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725577.html To start a new topic under Pharo Smalltalk Users, email ml-node+s1294792n1310670...@n4.nabble.com To unsubscribe from Mongo cache vs database objects, click herehttp://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_codenode=4725554code=c2FiaW5lLmtub2VmZWxAZ21haWwuY29tfDQ3MjU1NTR8MTA0OTM5MTYx . NAMLhttp://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewerid=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.namlbase=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespacebreadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725585.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Am 27.11.2013 um 14:05 schrieb Sabine Knöfel sabine.knoe...@gmail.com: Hi Norbert, thank you very much for the clarification. I had to read it several times but now I understand and I know what to change in my model for this (something with references to objects which have been deleted by the user). Yep, it _is_ a horrible explanation but the only one I can come up in a short timeframe :) Making it easily readably and clear would talk some more time. Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Uh? I’ve never seen a documentation about Johan. That is a nice idea! I was always thinking about how to use him! Norbert Greets Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] [hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]: Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725577.html To start a new topic under Pharo Smalltalk Users, email [hidden email] To unsubscribe from Mongo cache vs database objects, click here. NAML View this message in context: Re: Mongo cache vs database objects Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Hi Norbert, ooh sorry, it was absolutely NOT my intention to critisize your explanation I wanted to say it is complicated for my small brain ;-) I am very happy about your quick answer which helped me finding a solution for my problem!!! sorry! This was the post FROM Johan about the documentation: http://forum.world.st/Cleaning-up-Voyage-Documentation-td4723834.html LOL now, after writing the answer I understand the joke ;-) (of Johan, from johan) Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] ml-node+s1294792n4725590...@n4.nabble.com wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 14:05 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725590i=0 : Hi Norbert, thank you very much for the clarification. I had to read it several times but now I understand and I know what to change in my model for this (something with references to objects which have been deleted by the user). Yep, it _is_ a horrible explanation but the only one I can come up in a short timeframe :) Making it easily readably and clear would talk some more time. Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Uh? I’ve never seen a documentation about Johan. That is a nice idea! I was always thinking about how to use him! Norbert Greets Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] a href=x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725585amp;i=0 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725577i=0 : Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725577.html To start a new topic under Pharo Smalltalk Users, email a href=x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725585amp;i=1 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] To unsubscribe from Mongo cache vs database objects, click here. NAMLhttp://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewerid=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.namlbase=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespacebreadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml -- View this message in context: Re: Mongo cache vs database objectshttp://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725585.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
Am 27.11.2013 um 14:28 schrieb Sabine Knöfel sabine.knoe...@gmail.com: Hi Norbert, ooh sorry, it was absolutely NOT my intention to critisize your explanation I wanted to say it is complicated for my small brain ;-) I am very happy about your quick answer which helped me finding a solution for my problem!!! sorry! No pun taken. In fact _I_ was criticizing my explanation because it sucks :) So now let’s stop it because we are germans not canadians. No more sorrys needed. This was the post FROM Johan about the documentation: http://forum.world.st/Cleaning-up-Voyage-Documentation-td4723834.html LOL now, after writing the answer I understand the joke ;-) (of Johan, from johan) Ah, the other Johan! It is good to know because I did some changes to MongoTalk so I see what I can add. Norbert Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] [hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 14:05 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]: Hi Norbert, thank you very much for the clarification. I had to read it several times but now I understand and I know what to change in my model for this (something with references to objects which have been deleted by the user). Yep, it _is_ a horrible explanation but the only one I can come up in a short timeframe :) Making it easily readably and clear would talk some more time. Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Uh? I’ve never seen a documentation about Johan. That is a nice idea! I was always thinking about how to use him! Norbert Greets Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] a href=x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725585amp;i=0 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]: Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725577.html To start a new topic under Pharo Smalltalk Users, email a href=x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725585amp;i=1 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] To unsubscribe from Mongo cache vs database objects, click here. NAML View this message in context: Re: Mongo cache vs database objects Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725590.html To start a new topic under Pharo
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
ok:-) btw and ot: http://adam-fletcher.co.uk/howtobegerman/ recommend! On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] ml-node+s1294792n4725604...@n4.nabble.com wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 14:28 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725604i=0 : Hi Norbert, ooh sorry, it was absolutely NOT my intention to critisize your explanation I wanted to say it is complicated for my small brain ;-) I am very happy about your quick answer which helped me finding a solution for my problem!!! sorry! No pun taken. In fact _I_ was criticizing my explanation because it sucks :) So now let’s stop it because we are germans not canadians. No more sorrys needed. This was the post FROM Johan about the documentation: http://forum.world.st/Cleaning-up-Voyage-Documentation-td4723834.html LOL now, after writing the answer I understand the joke ;-) (of Johan, from johan) Ah, the other Johan! It is good to know because I did some changes to MongoTalk so I see what I can add. Norbert Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] a href=x-msg://257/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725597amp;i=0 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 14:05 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725590i=0 : Hi Norbert, thank you very much for the clarification. I had to read it several times but now I understand and I know what to change in my model for this (something with references to objects which have been deleted by the user). Yep, it _is_ a horrible explanation but the only one I can come up in a short timeframe :) Making it easily readably and clear would talk some more time. Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Uh? I’ve never seen a documentation about Johan. That is a nice idea! I was always thinking about how to use him! Norbert Greets Sabine On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Norbert Hartl [via Smalltalk] a href=a href=x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;amp;node=4725585amp;amp;i=0x-msg://256/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodeamp;node=4725585amp;i=0 target=_top rel=nofollow link=external[hidden email] wrote: Am 27.11.2013 um 13:20 schrieb Sabine Knöfel [hidden email]http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=4725577i=0 : Hi Esteban, all, I work with mongo daily an it works fine, I am very happy with it. As you told me, with VORepository current reset. I can force re loading all objects from database and resetting the cache completely. This is helpful for development eg. after changing the magritte descriptions. Indeed. You need to flush/reset the repository in order to have new descriptions to take effect. My question: Is there a possibility to make a query and tell voyage that THIS query should be done within the database and NOT within the cached objets? And that all objects and the child objects from this query are loaded freshly from database into the cache. All queries go to the database. The cache is just used at resolve time. And it is necessary to have identical objects. Meaning you query the database directly and then objects are materialized. If the object is already in the cache the cached one is returned. Otherwise you would lose identity because having two requests containing the same object as a result would lead to two objects instead of one. You could only load trees instead of a graph. My concrete situation: I want that if the user logs in, his objects are loaded from database and NOT from cache. This means the person, his trips etc. And the question coming along with this: How long does the cache keeps objects/when are they reseted (except the VORepository current reset)? If I would never take a new image and never make a reset, would all objects remain in the image (and the database objects wold never be read)? In this case what about the size of the image? I’m not sure on this one. I think the cache does not clean anything. The thing about being able to load a graph I wrote above has also the constraint that all loaded objects that are still participating in the active graph need to be in the cache. But then the cache is a weak dictionary meaning that all objects leaving the active graph are removed from the cache (well at GC time, I think) Norbert Regards Sabine -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.comhttp://nabble.com/ . -- If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below: http://forum.world.st/Mongo-cache-vs-database-objects-tp4725554p4725577.html To start a new topic under Pharo Smalltalk Users, email a href=a
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Perhaps your answer is also interesting for the documentation of Johan. Uh? I’ve never seen a documentation about Johan. That is a nice idea! I was always thinking about how to use him! How to use me is easy apparently, just ask my wife how she does it :-P Otherwise you can always pay me with beers ;-) --- Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org --- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
Re: [Pharo-users] Mongo cache vs database objects
In general, any comments/observations/additions are welcome of course! Latest version of the docs are always online and built by the pharo CI. On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:48 AM, Norbert Hartl norb...@hartl.name wrote: Ah, the other Johan! It is good to know because I did some changes to MongoTalk so I see what I can add. Norbert --- Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org --- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile
