Re: [Pharo-users] The Grapher charting engine
Hi Stef, On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 8:52 PM, stepharo wrote: > > > Le 21/3/15 13:58, Tudor Girba a écrit : > >> Hi, >> >> I fully agree with your API suggestions, but I do not quite understand >> why you say that it is because of the scripting that the API does not look >> like this. It's the opposite I think. >> >> When you "script" you want as succinct as possible (so, no moveBehind: >> and stuff). And you want to gradually add details and not be forced to >> specify them from the very beginning (so, good defaults). In fact, the rule >> of thumb that I argue for is that a good scripting (and in fact any API) >> interface is one that allows you to make a difference with any new line of >> code. That means that, ideally, we would want every line to be able to live >> on its own and not require another one. It's obviously not always possible, >> but I find it helps me when I grow an API. >> > > use the technique you want but to not dillute my point. I do not care how > you do it. > I care about having details away. > To me the feel that roassal gives me is that this is a tool to make demo to > impress audience > as to grow something, while I think that it could be a killer app with two > faces: > predefined compact api and a scripting way where you open the trunk and > build your own. A long script will not impress any audience. These are the same goals, not different. The idea of builders (Grapher is such a builder) is supposed to provide those levels (the basic engine can do everything, and the builder provides a more constrained higher level API). I fully agree that the current builders are not expressive enough. And I also agree that we need a dedicated effort to just making them more compact. We are fully in sync and I do not dilute your point, but I do not want to leave the impression that "scripting" is something bad, or secondary :). Cheers, Doru > > S. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
Re: [Pharo-users] The Grapher charting engine
Le 21/3/15 13:58, Tudor Girba a écrit : Hi, I fully agree with your API suggestions, but I do not quite understand why you say that it is because of the scripting that the API does not look like this. It's the opposite I think. When you "script" you want as succinct as possible (so, no moveBehind: and stuff). And you want to gradually add details and not be forced to specify them from the very beginning (so, good defaults). In fact, the rule of thumb that I argue for is that a good scripting (and in fact any API) interface is one that allows you to make a difference with any new line of code. That means that, ideally, we would want every line to be able to live on its own and not require another one. It's obviously not always possible, but I find it helps me when I grow an API. use the technique you want but to not dillute my point. I do not care how you do it. I care about having details away. To me the feel that roassal gives me is that this is a tool to make demo to impress audience as to grow something, while I think that it could be a killer app with two faces: predefined compact api and a scripting way where you open the trunk and build your own. S.
Re: [Pharo-users] The Grapher charting engine
Hi,
I fully agree with your API suggestions, but I do not quite understand why
you say that it is because of the scripting that the API does not look like
this. It's the opposite I think.
When you "script" you want as succinct as possible (so, no moveBehind: and
stuff). And you want to gradually add details and not be forced to specify
them from the very beginning (so, good defaults). In fact, the rule of
thumb that I argue for is that a good scripting (and in fact any API)
interface is one that allows you to make a difference with any new line of
code. That means that, ideally, we would want every line to be able to live
on its own and not require another one. It's obviously not always possible,
but I find it helps me when I grow an API.
Cheers,
Doru
On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:23 PM, stepharo wrote:
> Alex
>
> Roassal is really cool now I have one question
> why we cannot say
>
> serie1pointsAndVariations :- given
> series2pointsAndVariations := given
>
> RGrapher new
> axisX; axisY;
> seriesWithDeviation: {serie1pointsAndVariations .
> serie2pointsAndVariations};
> maxXAxis: 100;
>
> My point is why the line connection is not hidden from the user.
> I think that roassal is a cool scripting engine but it got ***trapped***
> there.
>
> A primary user wants to have abstractions
> Then in a second time he wants to open the trunk and script its own.
>
>
> also why don't you have nice default
>
> dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
> dec moveBehind;
> desviation: 0.5;
> color: (c alpha: 0.3);
> points: pts.
>
> =>
>
> dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
> desviation: 0.5;
> color: c;
> points: pts.
>
> why the decorator should be added to the builder?
>
> So see what I mean why do you expose to the user all the design challenges?
>
> I strongly suggest that during 1 month you stop to think in term of script.
> Imagine that you do not have a workspace anymore.
>
> Stef
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Mar 2015, at 22:18, Alexandre Bergel
> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> As many of you know, Grapher is a über-cool charting engine, part of
> Roassal.
> For people who do not know what Grapher is, here is a (compelling we hope)
> example:
>
> Which is obtained by the following script:
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> | b colors points ds pts dec lb |
> b := RTGrapher new.
> colors := Array with: Color red with: Color blue.
> points := OrderedCollection new.
>
> colors do: [ :c |
> ds := RTStackedDataSet new.
> pts := ((1 to: 100) collect: [ :i | 50 atRandom - 25 ]) cumsum.
> points add: pts.
> ds points: pts.
> dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
> dec moveBehind;
> desviation: 0.5;
> color: (c alpha: 0.3);
> points: pts.
> ds connectUsing: (RTLine new color: (c alpha: 0.5); width: 1 ).
> b add: ds.
> b addDecorator: dec.
> ].
>
> b axisX; axisY.
> b build.
>
> lb := RTLegendBuilder new.
> lb view: b view.
> colors doWithIndex: [ :c :i |
> lb addColor: c text: 'Series ', i printString ].
> lb build.
> b view @ RTZoomableView.
> b view
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
> In our grand vision of making Roassal the best visualizing engine of the
> Universe (we also know to be modest time to time, but not today :-),
> Grapher will play a very important role. We would like to stabilize Grapher
> and make it sure it happily fits everybody needs. You can help on it:
>
> - When you are tempted to look at the dark side of the planet (this is
> where R, JFreeChart, gnuplot, D3 and all their friends live), let us know.
> We will make sure to make you are happy again.
>
> - Share your wishlist with us. We already have a long todo list, but
> your opinion does matter and will take it seriously
>
> - we are open to contributions, which could be financial, bug fixe,
> enhancement, or simply encouragement.
>
> I am very happy to be surrounded by very smart engineers. Your
> encouragement are making them happy :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Alexandre, in the name of the Object Profile Team
>
> NB: sorry for the cross-list posting, but this email is very important for
> us, and for you we hope.
>
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
>
>
>
> ___
> vwnc mailing list
> v...@cs.uiuc.edu
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>
>
--
www.tudorgirba.com
"Every thing has its own flow"
[Pharo-users] The Grapher charting engine
Alex
Roassal is really cool now I have one question
why we cannot say
serie1pointsAndVariations :- given
series2pointsAndVariations := given
RGrapher new
axisX; axisY;
seriesWithDeviation: {serie1pointsAndVariations .
serie2pointsAndVariations};
maxXAxis: 100;
My point is why the line connection is not hidden from the user.
I think that roassal is a cool scripting engine but it got ***trapped***
there.
A primary user wants to have abstractions
Then in a second time he wants to open the trunk and script its own.
also why don't you have nice default
dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
dec moveBehind;
desviation: 0.5;
color: (c alpha: 0.3);
points: pts.
=>
dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
desviation: 0.5;
color: c;
points: pts.
why the decorator should be added to the builder?
So see what I mean why do you expose to the user all the design challenges?
I strongly suggest that during 1 month you stop to think in term of script.
Imagine that you do not have a workspace anymore.
Stef
On 20 Mar 2015, at 22:18, Alexandre Bergel wrote:
Dear all,
As many of you know, Grapher is a über-cool charting engine, part of
Roassal.
For people who do not know what Grapher is, here is a (compelling we
hope) example:
Which is obtained by the following script:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| b colors points ds pts dec lb |
b := RTGrapher new.
colors := Array with: Color red with: Color blue.
points := OrderedCollection new.
colors do: [ :c |
ds := RTStackedDataSet new.
pts := ((1 to: 100) collect: [ :i | 50 atRandom - 25 ]) cumsum.
points add: pts.
ds points: pts.
dec := RTDevVarDecorator new.
dec moveBehind;
desviation: 0.5;
color: (c alpha: 0.3);
points: pts.
ds connectUsing: (RTLine new color: (c alpha: 0.5); width: 1 ).
b add: ds.
b addDecorator: dec.
].
b axisX; axisY.
b build.
lb := RTLegendBuilder new.
lb view: b view.
colors doWithIndex: [ :c :i |
lb addColor: c text: 'Series ', i printString ].
lb build.
b view @ RTZoomableView.
b view
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
In our grand vision of making Roassal the best visualizing engine of the
Universe (we also know to be modest time to time, but not today :-),
Grapher will play a very important role. We would like to stabilize
Grapher and make it sure it happily fits everybody needs. You can help
on it:
- When you are tempted to look at the dark side of the planet (this
is where R, JFreeChart, gnuplot, D3 and all their friends live), let us
know. We will make sure to make you are happy again.
- Share your wishlist with us. We already have a long todo list,
but your opinion does matter and will take it seriously
- we are open to contributions, which could be financial, bug fixe,
enhancement, or simply encouragement.
I am very happy to be surrounded by very smart engineers. Your
encouragement are making them happy :-)
Cheers,
Alexandre, in the name of the Object Profile Team
NB: sorry for the cross-list posting, but this email is very important
for us, and for you we hope.
--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
___
vwnc mailing list
v...@cs.uiuc.edu
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
[Pharo-users] The Grapher charting engine
Dear all, As many of you know, Grapher is a über-cool charting engine, part of Roassal. For people who do not know what Grapher is, here is a (compelling we hope) example: Which is obtained by the following script: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | b colors points ds pts dec lb | b := RTGrapher new. colors := Array with: Color red with: Color blue. points := OrderedCollection new. colors do: [ :c | ds := RTStackedDataSet new. pts := ((1 to: 100) collect: [ :i | 50 atRandom - 25 ]) cumsum. points add: pts. ds points: pts. dec := RTDevVarDecorator new. dec moveBehind; desviation: 0.5; color: (c alpha: 0.3); points: pts. ds connectUsing: (RTLine new color: (c alpha: 0.5); width: 1 ). b add: ds. b addDecorator: dec. ]. b axisX; axisY. b build. lb := RTLegendBuilder new. lb view: b view. colors doWithIndex: [ :c :i | lb addColor: c text: 'Series ', i printString ]. lb build. b view @ RTZoomableView. b view -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= In our grand vision of making Roassal the best visualizing engine of the Universe (we also know to be modest time to time, but not today :-), Grapher will play a very important role. We would like to stabilize Grapher and make it sure it happily fits everybody needs. You can help on it: - When you are tempted to look at the dark side of the planet (this is where R, JFreeChart, gnuplot, D3 and all their friends live), let us know. We will make sure to make you are happy again. - Share your wishlist with us. We already have a long todo list, but your opinion does matter and will take it seriously - we are open to contributions, which could be financial, bug fixe, enhancement, or simply encouragement. I am very happy to be surrounded by very smart engineers. Your encouragement are making them happy :-) Cheers, Alexandre, in the name of the Object Profile Team NB: sorry for the cross-list posting, but this email is very important for us, and for you we hope. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
