Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Explaining Spec2 and why Bloc is on the roadmap
Thanks for the background info Steph. On Thu, 2 May 2019 at 17:28, ducasse wrote: > Spec 2.0 revisits fundamentally Spec. > - adds much better layouts (we will deprecate the interpreter design) A very long time ago that I was debugging a Spec app was that debugging INTO the framework from application code would take 30 odd steps before it got to evaluate the block passed by the application code. Sorry thats a bit vague, but I'm hoping deprecating the interpreter will improve such experience. As a general comment also, architectures using stored blocks for configuration rather than passing in an "object with defined methods" seems a lot "less live". Changing the code inside the block doesn't change the behaviour of existing elements. But maybe the "methods" way has its own issues. cheers -ben
Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Explaining Spec2 and why Bloc is on the roadmap
Stef, Exciting news all around. Is this s good opportunity to revisit theming? I made a good attempt to wrap my head around themes about a year ago or so, but it's quite complex. If now's not (understandably) the time, how will themes work with this new multiple-backend approach? On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 11:45 AM Alexandre Bergel via Pharo-users < pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > Thanks for this email. Spec 2 really looks great. > It is also great to foresee an integration of Bloc/Brick in Pharo. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On May 2, 2019, at 5:27 AM, ducasse wrote: > > > > Dear Pharoers > > > > We would like to explain what is Spec 2.0 and how Bloc is on the Pharo > roadmap. > > > > Spec is a way to support a way to express and reuse application > interaction logic. > > Spec was first developed by Benjamin van Ryseghem and others while > supervised > > by Stéphane Ducasse. > > Over the years we cleaned Spec, but we never took the time to really > revisit it, and Spec > > was never stressed outside the scope of Pharo tools (even if there is > some people who > > used it in their projects, this was not the general case). There was a > need to deeply rethink > > the way we express and reuse interaction application logic. > > > > Spec 2.0 revisits fundamentally Spec. The consortium wants to > acknowledge the strong financial > > support of Schmidt in this new development. Here is a list of points we > are working on to support companies > > to build modern applications with Pharo. > > > > - adding support for many widgets and at the same time improving > existing widgets such as fasttable > > - adds much better layouts (we will deprecate the interpreter > design) > > - introducing a new way to architecture an application: > > Spec20 introduces the notion of application to better handle > resources and window flow > > - revisiting the internal logic of Spec (to remove useless parts > and enhance the ones that works) > > - adding many tests > > > > In addition we want that Spec 2.0 is not tight anymore with Morphic. > > Why? Because we want to make sure that: > > - companies can deploy desktop applications > > - we can reuse all the tools logic of Pharo with new widgets sets > such as Brick (widgets on top of Bloc) > > without having to rewrite everything. > > > > This is why Spec2.0 can optionally render using Gtk3.0. It also means > that in the future we can have native widgets. > > > > Now that Bloc/Brick is finally reaching a point where it can be tried > and eventually adopted, we want to > > make sure the transition to it will not force us to throw away the tools > we developed last ten years. > > We think that Bloc needs some effort to clean and structure it and > Spec2.0 gives the time to let Bloc and Brick > > mature. Also, we want to make sure that in the future we will be able to > adopt other backends in case we > > decide it (Remember new now is old tomorrow and while Bloc/Brick is new > and modern, it will not remain > > new and modern forever). > > > > Brick needs to be ready for Pharo consumption, and to make it possible > we need to move the image to converge. > > With Spec 2.0, in future versions we will just need to define a new > backend to get all our tools working. > > > > The Pharo Board > > > > > > > > > -- Eric
Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Explaining Spec2 and why Bloc is on the roadmap
--- Begin Message --- Hi Stef, Thanks for this email. Spec 2 really looks great. It is also great to foresee an integration of Bloc/Brick in Pharo. Cheers, Alexandre > On May 2, 2019, at 5:27 AM, ducasse wrote: > > Dear Pharoers > > We would like to explain what is Spec 2.0 and how Bloc is on the Pharo > roadmap. > > Spec is a way to support a way to express and reuse application interaction > logic. > Spec was first developed by Benjamin van Ryseghem and others while supervised > by Stéphane Ducasse. > Over the years we cleaned Spec, but we never took the time to really revisit > it, and Spec > was never stressed outside the scope of Pharo tools (even if there is some > people who > used it in their projects, this was not the general case). There was a need > to deeply rethink > the way we express and reuse interaction application logic. > > Spec 2.0 revisits fundamentally Spec. The consortium wants to acknowledge the > strong financial > support of Schmidt in this new development. Here is a list of points we are > working on to support companies > to build modern applications with Pharo. > > - adding support for many widgets and at the same time improving > existing widgets such as fasttable > - adds much better layouts (we will deprecate the interpreter design) > - introducing a new way to architecture an application: > Spec20 introduces the notion of application to better handle resources > and window flow > - revisiting the internal logic of Spec (to remove useless parts and > enhance the ones that works) > - adding many tests > > In addition we want that Spec 2.0 is not tight anymore with Morphic. > Why? Because we want to make sure that: > - companies can deploy desktop applications > - we can reuse all the tools logic of Pharo with new widgets sets such > as Brick (widgets on top of Bloc) > without having to rewrite everything. > > This is why Spec2.0 can optionally render using Gtk3.0. It also means that in > the future we can have native widgets. > > Now that Bloc/Brick is finally reaching a point where it can be tried and > eventually adopted, we want to > make sure the transition to it will not force us to throw away the tools we > developed last ten years. > We think that Bloc needs some effort to clean and structure it and Spec2.0 > gives the time to let Bloc and Brick > mature. Also, we want to make sure that in the future we will be able to > adopt other backends in case we > decide it (Remember new now is old tomorrow and while Bloc/Brick is new and > modern, it will not remain > new and modern forever). > > Brick needs to be ready for Pharo consumption, and to make it possible we > need to move the image to converge. > With Spec 2.0, in future versions we will just need to define a new backend > to get all our tools working. > > The Pharo Board > > > --- End Message ---