Re: [Phono-L] early molded records

[Thomas Edison]

Steve,7000 series is what I have seen. I think that flat enders were made until 
about 1903,and yes, the surface is very thin, with thick ribs, the ribs on the 
cylinders. Are made. With a special knife, and this was done when the record 
was still expanded in the mold, and the record hot, however cool enough to 
retain the shape. And when they had sat a few days the ribs were  Reamed to fit 
the taper of a phonograph mandrel. The comp was changed about 1904 for the 
round end records. Ebonite (which was melted at 350 degrees). And wet copper 
powder added to this, then stearic, soda aluminate, ceresin and pine pitch. 
What ebonite actually  is, is a mystery, I do not think it is hard rubber, as 
ebonite is called for other purposes, but may have been a trade name of montan 
wax . The formula says you can sub caranauba with "Ebonite", and montan has 
properties similar to carnauba, and you do not smell rubber when you melt a 
1905 era GM record, you can shure smell the pine tar. 
  
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[Phono-L] MBSI ARTICLE

[zonophone2006]

HI ALL
There is a good article by larry karp in the new mbsi journal on the chocolate 
records and the machine
good reference to to renee if anyone else is a member
zono

 

 


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[Phono-L] Edison NHP Presentation "Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice"

[mark lynch]

A fascinating presentation at the Edison NHP next Saturday. Read below for free 
reservations. 

Hope to see some of you there.

Best,
Mark

"Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice" - David Giovannoni at Thomas 
Edison NHP, November 6, 7:00 pm

Thomas Edison NHP News Release
Contact: Karen Sloat-Olsen
Phone: 973-736-0550 x17
Reservations:  973-736-0550 x89

Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice 
Historian David Giovannoni Presentation

WEST ORANGE, NJ - On Saturday evening, November 6, 2010, at 7:00 pm, Thomas 
Edison National Historical Park welcomes historian David Giovannoni who will 
give a 75-minute illustrated presentation titled "Humanity's First Recordings 
of its Own Voice."  The program will be held at the Laboratory Complex at 211 
Main Street. Admission to the program is free.  Seating is limited and 
reservations are required. Reservations can be made by calling 973-736-0550, 
ext.89. 
Thomas Edison's tinfoil phonograph of 1877 is rightly considered one of the 
marvels of the nineteenth century.  But in mid-nineteenth-century France, 
amateur inventor Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville conceived of a rather 
similar machine.  Between 1854 and 1860 he experimented with focusing airborne 
sounds of speech and music onto paper.  His phonautograph bore a striking 
resemblance to Edison's phonograph of 20 years later.  But his recordings, 
unlike Edison's, were meant to be read by the eye, not heard by the ear.

For a century-and-a-half his experiments lay quietly in the venerable French 
archives in which he deposited them.  Then in 2007 a few audio historians 
hypothesized there was a real possibility that modern technology could develop 
these experimental recordings like dormant photographic plates.  Instead of 
exposing images, however, these would bear sounds – perhaps even humanity's 
first recordings of its own voice!

In this presentation David Giovannoni recounts how he and his colleagues have 
identified dozens of these forgotten documents and coaxed several to talk and 
to sing.  A principal in their discovery and recovery, Giovannoni is the first 
person since Scott de Martinville to personally examine every recording.  He'll 
explain how they were made and how they are played.  He'll discuss Scott de 
Martinville experiments, his reception in established scientific circles, and 
his early descent into an unmarked grave.

For more information or directions please call 973-736-0550 ext. 11 or visit 
our website at www.nps.gov/edis.  

-NPS-

National Park Service
U.S. Department of the Interior Thomas Edison
National Historical Park 
211 Main Street
West Orange, NJ 07052



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Re: [Phono-L] early molded records

[AllenAmet]

 
In a message dated 10/28/2010 4:58:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
edisonphonowo...@hotmail.com writes:

Steve,7000 series is what I have seen. I think that flat enders were  made 
until about 1903,and yes, the surface is very thin, with thick ribs, the  
ribs on the cylinders. Are made. 



 Since the white titles on the rims were not added to Edison 2-min  black 
wax molded records (sloped rims) until August 1904, the presumption  is that 
the first style cylinders were made until then, without rim title, etc.  The 
# is indeed visible, if barely, on the land next to grooves.
 
  The first NEW (whitened) title molded black Edison wax cylinder  was 
#8003 and the (new) price was 35 cents each.
   
Allen
 
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[Phono-L] early GMs

[Thomas Edison]

Yes, Allen, the numbers are very hard to see, I have The Star Spangled Banner, 
and In the Shadow Of the Pine. The. Grooves almost go to the end of the record, 
and the numbers very faint.
  
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Re: [Phono-L] early molded records

[Steven Medved]

Shawn,
 
I always thought it was 1902 to 1904, but it was actually 1901 to 1904 I 
appreciate Allen letting us know the month.  I examined one of the records I 
have from 1904 and it appears to be just as thin.  I probably have at least 20 
of these, the ribs are very thick.  
 
I have also noted that intermittently from around 10100 to 10400 the wax ambero 
wax 2 minute records appear.  Are there more than three 2 minue wax formulas, 
the early no rim one, the one with rim and the wax amberol wax?  
 
The 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records I have are 8708 with a Patd 26, (and the 
26 is light like the catalog number on the 1901 to 1904 records with no titles) 
10120, 10146, 10262, 10278, 10303 .3 & ..6, 10374, 10377, 10395, and 10400.  
The 17 records I have from 104xx to 10562 are all the regular wax.  
 
As always I really appreciate your replies.
 
With regards to the brown wax blanks I have one that came in a box dated 1914, 
was the formula different on these?  It is a yellow box and I have seen some of 
these later boxes with an ICS machine.
 
Steve


 

> Steve,7000 series is what I have seen. I think that flat enders were made 
> until about 1903,and yes, the surface is very thin, with thick ribs, the ribs 
> on the cylinders. Are made. With a special knife, and this was done when the 
> record was still expanded in the mold, and the record hot, however cool 
> enough to retain the shape. And when they had sat a few days the ribs were 
> Reamed to fit the taper of a phonograph mandrel. The comp was changed about 
> 1904 for the round end records. Ebonite (which was melted at 350 degrees). 
> And wet copper powder added to this, then stearic, soda aluminate, ceresin 
> and pine pitch. What ebonite actually is, is a mystery, I do not think it is 
> hard rubber, as ebonite is called for other purposes, but may have been a 
> trade name of montan wax . The formula says you can sub caranauba with 
> "Ebonite", and montan has properties similar to carnauba, and you do not 
> smell rubber when you melt a 1905 era GM record, you can shure smell the pine 
> tar. 
> 
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> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
  
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record

[Jim Nichol]

The best known record of this type is the one by Monty Python in the 1970's. I 
was astounded when I bought it back then, and accidentally discovered that side 
2 had two different grooves.  It was called a "three-sided record".

http://www.snopes.com/music/media/groove.asp

Jim

On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPct-CiZK4 
> 
> Here is the Conundrum being demonstrated on Youtube. 
> 
> Bruce 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Douglas Houston"  
> To: "Antique Phonograph List"  
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:50:40 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
> 
> There seems to be lot of conjecture about exactly how many of those records 
> that Victor made. I always hear of the Conundrum, but never have seen/heard 
> it. I have the "Puzzle Record", which has three starts on each of two 
> sides. It's a 10 inch. Rust's "Victor Master Book" tells thyat some (not 
> all) of the tracks were done by the Mayfair Orchestra (England?). Audio 
> quality is very good. The stylus sure does go across the record in a hurry! 
> 
> 
>> [Original Message] 
>> From: Vinyl Visions  
>> To:  
>> Date: 10/27/2010 12:06:16 AM 
>> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm hoping that someone on the list might have some info on Victor 
> Puzzle Records. I picked one up the other day titled: "The Conundrum - What 
> Should I Play Next?". Anyone know how many of these were made or how scarce 
> they might be? I have only seen two of these - the one that I bought and 
> another by Jimmie Rodgers. Were these a demo of the then current 
> technology, or were they made for some other purpose? The selections on 
> this record are four different types of music, which play randomly, 
> depending on where or when you place the needle - very strange... 
>> 
>> Curt 

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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record

[Jim Nichol]

Wow! The odds of playing the 4 tracks successfully are 1 in 256, if I 
calculated correctly.  ( 4x4x4x4=256)

Jim

On Oct 27, 2010, at 10:14 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Thanks for the link on YouTube. Strangely enough when I first played my 
> record, I hit each variation with the first four tries - since then, that 
> feat is impossible to reproduce.
> 
> Curt
> 
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:52:45 +
>> From: bruce78...@comcast.net
>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPct-CiZK4 
>> 
>> Here is the Conundrum being demonstrated on Youtube. 
>> 
>> Bruce 
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Douglas Houston"  
>> To: "Antique Phonograph List"  
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:50:40 AM 
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
>> 
>> There seems to be lot of conjecture about exactly how many of those records 
>> that Victor made. I always hear of the Conundrum, but never have seen/heard 
>> it. I have the "Puzzle Record", which has three starts on each of two 
>> sides. It's a 10 inch. Rust's "Victor Master Book" tells thyat some (not 
>> all) of the tracks were done by the Mayfair Orchestra (England?). Audio 
>> quality is very good. The stylus sure does go across the record in a hurry! 
>> 
>> 
>>> [Original Message] 
>>> From: Vinyl Visions  
>>> To:  
>>> Date: 10/27/2010 12:06:16 AM 
>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm hoping that someone on the list might have some info on Victor 
>> Puzzle Records. I picked one up the other day titled: "The Conundrum - What 
>> Should I Play Next?". Anyone know how many of these were made or how scarce 
>> they might be? I have only seen two of these - the one that I bought and 
>> another by Jimmie Rodgers. Were these a demo of the then current 
>> technology, or were they made for some other purpose? The selections on 
>> this record are four different types of music, which play randomly, 
>> depending on where or when you place the needle - very strange... 
>>> 
>>> Curt 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
>>> Phono-L mailing list 
>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>> 
>> 
>> ___ 
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>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org 
>> ___
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> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Edison NHP Presentation "Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice"

[Jim Nichol]

I hope someone will make this available on video. I can't see making a 2nd trip 
back to the Site in 2010. I was there a few months ago.  (my previous trip was 
about 1966).

Jim

On Oct 28, 2010, at 10:16 AM, mark lynch wrote:

> 
> A fascinating presentation at the Edison NHP next Saturday. Read below for 
> free reservations. 
> 
> Hope to see some of you there.
> 
> Best,
> Mark
> 
> "Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice" - David Giovannoni at Thomas 
> Edison NHP, November 6, 7:00 pm
> 
> Thomas Edison NHP News Release
> Contact: Karen Sloat-Olsen
> Phone: 973-736-0550 x17
> Reservations:  973-736-0550 x89
> 
> Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice 
> Historian David Giovannoni Presentation
> 
> WEST ORANGE, NJ - On Saturday evening, November 6, 2010, at 7:00 pm, Thomas 
> Edison National Historical Park welcomes historian David Giovannoni who will 
> give a 75-minute illustrated presentation titled "Humanity's First Recordings 
> of its Own Voice."  The program will be held at the Laboratory Complex at 211 
> Main Street. Admission to the program is free.  Seating is limited and 
> reservations are required. Reservations can be made by calling 973-736-0550, 
> ext.89. 
> Thomas Edison's tinfoil phonograph of 1877 is rightly considered one of the 
> marvels of the nineteenth century.  But in mid-nineteenth-century France, 
> amateur inventor Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville conceived of a rather 
> similar machine.  Between 1854 and 1860 he experimented with focusing 
> airborne sounds of speech and music onto paper.  His phonautograph bore a 
> striking resemblance to Edison's phonograph of 20 years later.  But his 
> recordings, unlike Edison's, were meant to be read by the eye, not heard by 
> the ear.
> 
> For a century-and-a-half his experiments lay quietly in the venerable French 
> archives in which he deposited them.  Then in 2007 a few audio historians 
> hypothesized there was a real possibility that modern technology could 
> develop these experimental recordings like dormant photographic plates.  
> Instead of exposing images, however, these would bear sounds – perhaps even 
> humanity's first recordings of its own voice!
> 
> In this presentation David Giovannoni recounts how he and his colleagues have 
> identified dozens of these forgotten documents and coaxed several to talk and 
> to sing.  A principal in their discovery and recovery, Giovannoni is the 
> first person since Scott de Martinville to personally examine every 
> recording.  He'll explain how they were made and how they are played.  He'll 
> discuss Scott de Martinville experiments, his reception in established 
> scientific circles, and his early descent into an unmarked grave.
> 
> For more information or directions please call 973-736-0550 ext. 11 or visit 
> our website at www.nps.gov/edis.  
> 
> -NPS-
> 
> National Park Service
> U.S. Department of the Interior   Thomas Edison
> National Historical Park 
> 211 Main Street
> West Orange, NJ 07052
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record

[Vinyl Visions]

Wow... Monty Python - they were my favorites and I never heard of the three 
sided record.
 
> From: jnic...@fuse.net
> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:52:19 -0400
> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record
> 
> The best known record of this type is the one by Monty Python in the 1970's. 
> I was astounded when I bought it back then, and accidentally discovered that 
> side 2 had two different grooves. It was called a "three-sided record".
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/music/media/groove.asp
> 
> Jim
> 
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote:
> 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPct-CiZK4 
> > 
> > Here is the Conundrum being demonstrated on Youtube. 
> > 
> > Bruce 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Douglas Houston"  
> > To: "Antique Phonograph List"  
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:50:40 AM 
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
> > 
> > There seems to be lot of conjecture about exactly how many of those records 
> > that Victor made. I always hear of the Conundrum, but never have seen/heard 
> > it. I have the "Puzzle Record", which has three starts on each of two 
> > sides. It's a 10 inch. Rust's "Victor Master Book" tells thyat some (not 
> > all) of the tracks were done by the Mayfair Orchestra (England?). Audio 
> > quality is very good. The stylus sure does go across the record in a hurry! 
> > 
> > 
> >> [Original Message] 
> >> From: Vinyl Visions  
> >> To:  
> >> Date: 10/27/2010 12:06:16 AM 
> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Victor Puzzle Record 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I'm hoping that someone on the list might have some info on Victor 
> > Puzzle Records. I picked one up the other day titled: "The Conundrum - What 
> > Should I Play Next?". Anyone know how many of these were made or how scarce 
> > they might be? I have only seen two of these - the one that I bought and 
> > another by Jimmie Rodgers. Were these a demo of the then current 
> > technology, or were they made for some other purpose? The selections on 
> > this record are four different types of music, which play randomly, 
> > depending on where or when you place the needle - very strange... 
> >> 
> >> Curt 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Phono-L] Edison NHP Presentation "Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice"

[Ron Cowen]

can't stay away the whole weekend but thanks. Hope they video the presentation. 
Have a great time, Ron



From: mark lynch [mailto:markely...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thu 10/28/2010 10:16 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: [Phono-L] Edison NHP Presentation "Humanity's First Recordings of its 
Own Voice"




A fascinating presentation at the Edison NHP next Saturday. Read below for free 
reservations.

Hope to see some of you there.

Best,
Mark

"Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice" - David Giovannoni at Thomas 
Edison NHP, November 6, 7:00 pm

Thomas Edison NHP News Release
Contact: Karen Sloat-Olsen
Phone: 973-736-0550 x17
Reservations:  973-736-0550 x89

Humanity's First Recordings of its Own Voice
Historian David Giovannoni Presentation

WEST ORANGE, NJ - On Saturday evening, November 6, 2010, at 7:00 pm, Thomas 
Edison National Historical Park welcomes historian David Giovannoni who will 
give a 75-minute illustrated presentation titled "Humanity's First Recordings 
of its Own Voice."  The program will be held at the Laboratory Complex at 211 
Main Street. Admission to the program is free.  Seating is limited and 
reservations are required. Reservations can be made by calling 973-736-0550, 
ext.89.
Thomas Edison's tinfoil phonograph of 1877 is rightly considered one of the 
marvels of the nineteenth century.  But in mid-nineteenth-century France, 
amateur inventor Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville conceived of a rather 
similar machine.  Between 1854 and 1860 he experimented with focusing airborne 
sounds of speech and music onto paper.  His phonautograph bore a striking 
resemblance to Edison's phonograph of 20 years later.  But his recordings, 
unlike Edison's, were meant to be read by the eye, not heard by the ear.

For a century-and-a-half his experiments lay quietly in the venerable French 
archives in which he deposited them.  Then in 2007 a few audio historians 
hypothesized there was a real possibility that modern technology could develop 
these experimental recordings like dormant photographic plates.  Instead of 
exposing images, however, these would bear sounds - perhaps even humanity's 
first recordings of its own voice!

In this presentation David Giovannoni recounts how he and his colleagues have 
identified dozens of these forgotten documents and coaxed several to talk and 
to sing.  A principal in their discovery and recovery, Giovannoni is the first 
person since Scott de Martinville to personally examine every recording.  He'll 
explain how they were made and how they are played.  He'll discuss Scott de 
Martinville experiments, his reception in established scientific circles, and 
his early descent into an unmarked grave.

For more information or directions please call 973-736-0550 ext. 11 or visit 
our website at www.nps.gov/edis. 

-NPS-

National Park Service
U.S. Department of the Interior Thomas Edison
National Historical Park
211 Main Street
West Orange, NJ 07052



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