Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
That's right, I forgot about the red vinyl DV series of RCA classical records! I know quite a few labels pressed on vinyl for radio releases, RCA in particular, but I've never known where those fell in the timeline. > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:31:19 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > I also believe that RCA's pre-grooved discs were purely vinyl. I bought a > box of new ones a few years ago, and tried to make a recording off of the > sir on the RCA 381 phono combo I have. The result was, that there was a > recording on the disc (using the proper styli, of course), but since the > disc was hardened from age. I had to drive the slats out of that pichup > head to get a signal on the disc. > > The only way to get a decent disc recording would be to get some freshly > lacquered blank discs, or get one of the old disc recorders and cut a > master on the big wax cake, and ...let's not be silly. > I have several blank discs. I've tried to cut a new recording on one, but > the groove is so screechy, it's ridiculous to even try, and that's on a > Presto K-8! > > Anyway, the stories tell that, since shellac had been a critical material > during WW II, Victor and a few others began to resort to vinyl as a > substitute. Vinyl is cheaper that shellac. and made quiter surfaces, so RCA > pressed quite a few of their classical records on transparent red vinyl, > and called them "Red Seal Deluxe" and charged double the price of the > sheelac discs. It wasn't long after that that Dr. Goldmark (CBS) launched > his LP discs. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Robert Wright > > To: Phono L > > Date: 11/20/2010 12:01:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > > > Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl > in every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's > records. And those were what, 1929? Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other > branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other, > and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but > they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl. Meanwhile, the V-Discs > from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. > Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember. > > > > > > > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > > > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP > > > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those > Program > > > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was > supposed to > > > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where > the > > > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were > made > > > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been > around, > > > in one form or another. > > > > > > ___ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I also believe that RCA's pre-grooved discs were purely vinyl. I bought a box of new ones a few years ago, and tried to make a recording off of the sir on the RCA 381 phono combo I have. The result was, that there was a recording on the disc (using the proper styli, of course), but since the disc was hardened from age. I had to drive the slats out of that pichup head to get a signal on the disc. The only way to get a decent disc recording would be to get some freshly lacquered blank discs, or get one of the old disc recorders and cut a master on the big wax cake, and ...let's not be silly. I have several blank discs. I've tried to cut a new recording on one, but the groove is so screechy, it's ridiculous to even try, and that's on a Presto K-8! Anyway, the stories tell that, since shellac had been a critical material during WW II, Victor and a few others began to resort to vinyl as a substitute. Vinyl is cheaper that shellac. and made quiter surfaces, so RCA pressed quite a few of their classical records on transparent red vinyl, and called them "Red Seal Deluxe" and charged double the price of the sheelac discs. It wasn't long after that that Dr. Goldmark (CBS) launched his LP discs. > [Original Message] > From: Robert Wright > To: Phono L > Date: 11/20/2010 12:01:23 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl in every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's records. And those were what, 1929? Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other, and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl. Meanwhile, the V-Discs from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember. > > > > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP > > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those Program > > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed to > > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where the > > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were made > > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been around, > > in one form or another. > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I'd be willing to bet that was a Victor Home Recording disc. They were 6" with white label or 10" with a yellow/golden label. http://www.phonozoic.net/recordio/victor1.jpg http://www.phonozoic.net/recordio/victor2.jpg http://www.phonozoic.net/recordio/victor3.jpg I have a bunch of 6" and one 10". Can't hear what's recorded on any of them really. > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:17:21 -0800 > From: smst...@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > I may it wrong but years ago over at Bob Olson's house we were picking thru' > Bob's records as he was down sizing. The Record Ranger picked up a 7" victor > that was flexible. Teasing me to get it first Vinyl he says and rare. The > label was from the 20's. Could be wrong about any or all of it. Damn I > wanted that record. > Mike > Oldcranky > > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Robert Wright wrote: > > > > > Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl in > > every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's > > records. And those were what, 1929? Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other > > branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other, > > and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but > > they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl. Meanwhile, the V-Discs > > from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. > > Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember. > > > > > > > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > > > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP > > > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those > > Program > > > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed > > to > > > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where > > the > > > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were > > made > > > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been > > around, > > > in one form or another. > > > > > > ___ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I may it wrong but years ago over at Bob Olson's house we were picking thru' Bob's records as he was down sizing. The Record Ranger picked up a 7" victor that was flexible. Teasing me to get it first Vinyl he says and rare. The label was from the 20's. Could be wrong about any or all of it. Damn I wanted that record. Mike Oldcranky On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Robert Wright wrote: > > Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl in > every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's > records. And those were what, 1929? Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other > branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other, > and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but > they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl. Meanwhile, the V-Discs > from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. > Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember. > > > > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP > > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those > Program > > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed > to > > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where > the > > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were > made > > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been > around, > > in one form or another. > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
Actually, the Victor Home Recordings discs are straight up modern vinyl in every perceivable way -- exactly as flexible and plasticky as today's records. And those were what, 1929? Vitrolac, MGM's Metrolite, and other branded fomulations were part vinyl, part shellac-type something-or-other, and were certainly more flexible (less breakable) than shellac discs, but they were still more like shellac than pure vinyl. Meanwhile, the V-Discs from WWII (many of them but not all) were fully PVC like modern records. Vinyl didn't become common until the LP in 1949 as far as I remember. > From: cdh...@earthlink.net > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:52:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP > discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those Program > Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed to > have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where the > Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were made > of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been around, > in one form or another. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I was surprised a few years ago to see that RCA used Vinyl on their LP discs of the early thirties. In many places, the material for those Program Transcriptions was identified as "Victrolite" whatever that was supposed to have been. But, I have the RCA Victor dealer fact book from 1932, where the Long Playing records were anounced, and they said that the discs were made of "Vinylite". It's really interesting how vinyl plastics ahve been around, in one form or another. > [Original Message] > From: Robert Wright > To: Phono L > Date: 11/19/2010 12:53:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > Yup, the vinyl modern records are made from has been around way longer than Victor picture discs, and BFGoodrich got it to be fully functional in 1926, see below: > PVC was accidentally discovered at least twice in the 19th century, first in 1835 by Henri Victor Regnault and in 1872 by Eugen Baumann. On both occasions the polymer appeared as a white solid inside flasks of vinyl chloride that had been left exposed to sunlight. In the early 20th century the Russian chemist Ivan Ostromislensky and Fritz Klatte of the German chemical company Griesheim-Elektron both attempted to use PVC (polyvinyl chloride) in commercial products, but difficulties in processing the rigid, sometimes brittle polymer blocked their efforts. Waldo Semon and the B.F. Goodrich Company developed a method in 1926 to plasticize PVC by blending it with various additives. The result was a more flexible and more easily processed material that soon achieved widespread commercial use. > Wiki can be a wonderful (if not reliably trustworthy) thing! > > > > > From: esrobe...@hotmail.com > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:49:04 + > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > > > I think the Victor picture discs had something more durable than what the HotW discs used. It's like a clear/hazy vinyl surface, easy to see and get a feel for if you have a broken Victor PD. Vinyl certainly existed in the 30's, didn't it? > > > > > > > From: maxbu...@wowway.com > > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:42:03 -0600 > > > Subject: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > > > I was under the impression that vinyl came along some time after picture > > > discs came on the scene. I always thought they were laminated with Durium, > > > the clear surface that coated Hit of the Week records. > > > Bruce M. > > > > > > ___ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > ___ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
Yup, the vinyl modern records are made from has been around way longer than Victor picture discs, and BFGoodrich got it to be fully functional in 1926, see below: PVC was accidentally discovered at least twice in the 19th century, first in 1835 by Henri Victor Regnault and in 1872 by Eugen Baumann. On both occasions the polymer appeared as a white solid inside flasks of vinyl chloride that had been left exposed to sunlight. In the early 20th century the Russian chemist Ivan Ostromislensky and Fritz Klatte of the German chemical company Griesheim-Elektron both attempted to use PVC (polyvinyl chloride) in commercial products, but difficulties in processing the rigid, sometimes brittle polymer blocked their efforts. Waldo Semon and the B.F. Goodrich Company developed a method in 1926 to plasticize PVC by blending it with various additives. The result was a more flexible and more easily processed material that soon achieved widespread commercial use. Wiki can be a wonderful (if not reliably trustworthy) thing! > From: esrobe...@hotmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:49:04 + > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > I think the Victor picture discs had something more durable than what the > HotW discs used. It's like a clear/hazy vinyl surface, easy to see and get a > feel for if you have a broken Victor PD. Vinyl certainly existed in the > 30's, didn't it? > > > > From: maxbu...@wowway.com > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:42:03 -0600 > > Subject: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > > > I was under the impression that vinyl came along some time after picture > > discs came on the scene. I always thought they were laminated with Durium, > > the clear surface that coated Hit of the Week records. > > Bruce M. > > > > ___ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I think the Victor picture discs had something more durable than what the HotW discs used. It's like a clear/hazy vinyl surface, easy to see and get a feel for if you have a broken Victor PD. Vinyl certainly existed in the 30's, didn't it? > From: maxbu...@wowway.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:42:03 -0600 > Subject: [Phono-L] Really Vinyl? > > I was under the impression that vinyl came along some time after picture > discs came on the scene. I always thought they were laminated with Durium, > the clear surface that coated Hit of the Week records. > Bruce M. > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Really Vinyl?
I was under the impression that vinyl came along some time after picture discs came on the scene. I always thought they were laminated with Durium, the clear surface that coated Hit of the Week records. Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
