Re: [FIG 3.0] Need clarifications about core committee

['Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework Interoperability Group]

Well, clarity of the document. It takes time to find what you need so maybe 
wording or structure could be improved for better comprehension, 
cross-linking introduced etc.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 1:07:40 AM UTC+3, Alessandro Lai wrote:
>
> Well, the vote has now been canceled. I've just now finished reading again 
> the full diff, and I've found clarifications about possible tie votes: 
> majority must be +1 with 50%: 
> https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/pull/752/files#diff-a7e6254aa839471064951898e0ebb021R17
>
> So basically no tie is possible. 
>
> Are there any other doubts to be settled? 
>
>

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Re: [Discussion][Internals] Remove the Interface suffix from PSR naming conventions

[Art Hundiak]

I find it a bit amusing that exact same discussion is taking place here: 
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/329098/naming-issues-should-isomething-be-renamed-to-something
>
>
Different language and I prefix vs Interface suffix but the exact same 
arguments.

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Re: [Discussion][Internals] Remove the Interface suffix from PSR naming conventions

[Larry Garfield]

On 08/24/2016 07:58 AM, Art Hundiak wrote:

I find it a bit amusing that exact same discussion is taking place here:
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/329098/naming-issues-should-isomething-be-renamed-to-something 




Different language and I prefix vs Interface suffix but the exact same 
arguments.


This discussion has been going on since the mid-90s when Java was 
released, at least.  (Maybe longer, but that's when I first encountered 
it.)  It's a tabs-vs-spaces class of issue.


--Larry Garfield

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Re: [FIG 3.0] Need clarifications about core committee

[Larry Garfield]

Can you note anything in particular that is clumsy to read?  We were 
aiming for explicitness and lack of vagueness, which in prose does tend 
to lead to verbosity.  To me it still reads fairly well, but as the 
author I am of course biased on that front. :-)


--Larry Garfield

On 08/24/2016 05:27 AM, 'Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework 
Interoperability Group wrote:
Well, clarity of the document. It takes time to find what you need so 
maybe wording or structure could be improved for better comprehension, 
cross-linking introduced etc.


On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 1:07:40 AM UTC+3, Alessandro Lai wrote:

Well, the vote has now been canceled. I've just now finished
reading again the full diff, and I've found clarifications about
possible tie votes: majority must be +1 with 50%:

https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/pull/752/files#diff-a7e6254aa839471064951898e0ebb021R17




So basically no tie is possible.

Are there any other doubts to be settled?



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Re: [FIG 3.0] Need clarifications about core committee

['Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework Interoperability Group]

I'll try to re-read it and make a pull request with changes or at least a 
list of suggestions.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:51:27 PM UTC+3, Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> Can you note anything in particular that is clumsy to read?  We were 
> aiming for explicitness and lack of vagueness, which in prose does tend to 
> lead to verbosity.  To me it still reads fairly well, but as the author I 
> am of course biased on that front. :-)
>
> --Larry Garfield
>
> On 08/24/2016 05:27 AM, 'Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework 
> Interoperability Group wrote:
>
> Well, clarity of the document. It takes time to find what you need so 
> maybe wording or structure could be improved for better comprehension, 
> cross-linking introduced etc.
>
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 1:07:40 AM UTC+3, Alessandro Lai wrote: 
>>
>> Well, the vote has now been canceled. I've just now finished reading 
>> again the full diff, and I've found clarifications about possible tie 
>> votes: majority must be +1 with 50%: 
>> https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/pull/752/files#diff-a7e6254aa839471064951898e0ebb021R17
>>  
>>
>> So basically no tie is possible. 
>>
>> Are there any other doubts to be settled?
>>
>
>

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Re: [FIG 3.0] Need clarifications about core committee

[Alessandro Lai]

Larry, it think that the part about vote rounding is not clear enough; it's 
understandable through the examples, but the rule is somewhat "implicit" in 
there.

Il giorno mercoledì 24 agosto 2016 15:51:27 UTC+2, Larry Garfield ha 
scritto:
>
> Can you note anything in particular that is clumsy to read?  We were 
> aiming for explicitness and lack of vagueness, which in prose does tend to 
> lead to verbosity.  To me it still reads fairly well, but as the author I 
> am of course biased on that front. :-)
>
> --Larry Garfield
>
> On 08/24/2016 05:27 AM, 'Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework 
> Interoperability Group wrote:
>
> Well, clarity of the document. It takes time to find what you need so 
> maybe wording or structure could be improved for better comprehension, 
> cross-linking introduced etc.
>
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 1:07:40 AM UTC+3, Alessandro Lai wrote: 
>>
>> Well, the vote has now been canceled. I've just now finished reading 
>> again the full diff, and I've found clarifications about possible tie 
>> votes: majority must be +1 with 50%: 
>> https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/pull/752/files#diff-a7e6254aa839471064951898e0ebb021R17
>>  
>>
>> So basically no tie is possible. 
>>
>> Are there any other doubts to be settled?
>>
>
>

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Re: [Discussion][Internals] Remove the Interface suffix from PSR naming conventions

[Josh Di Fabio]

Uncle Bob's opinion: http://stackoverflow.com/a/5817904/4498485

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 2:49 PM Larry Garfield 
wrote:

> On 08/24/2016 07:58 AM, Art Hundiak wrote:
>
> I find it a bit amusing that exact same discussion is taking place here:
>
> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/329098/naming-issues-should-isomething-be-renamed-to-something
>>
>>
> Different language and I prefix vs Interface suffix but the exact same
> arguments.
>
>
> This discussion has been going on since the mid-90s when Java was
> released, at least.  (Maybe longer, but that's when I first encountered
> it.)  It's a tabs-vs-spaces class of issue.
>
> --Larry Garfield
>
> --
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> 
> .
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>

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Re: [Discussion][Internals] Remove the Interface suffix from PSR naming conventions

[Daniel Plainview]

Sometimes suffix has influence in design decisions, because it hides some 
design issues which cannot be said about tabs-vs-spaces. This comparison is 
not correct.

On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:49:42 PM UTC+3, Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> On 08/24/2016 07:58 AM, Art Hundiak wrote:
>
> I find it a bit amusing that exact same discussion is taking place here:  
>
> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/329098/naming-issues-should-isomething-be-renamed-to-something
>  
>>
>>
> Different language and I prefix vs Interface suffix but the exact same 
> arguments.
>
>
> This discussion has been going on since the mid-90s when Java was 
> released, at least.  (Maybe longer, but that's when I first encountered 
> it.)  It's a tabs-vs-spaces class of issue.
>
> --Larry Garfield
>

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Re: [FIG 3.0] Need clarifications about core committee

[Michael Cullum]

Hi Alessandro,

Larry asked me to just jump in and clarify this (the legalese part of the
spec was mostly from me and this also relates to existing bylaws).

It's based on the current wording (and rounding rules) in the current
Voting Protocol where no tie is possible, the burden of proof, so to speak,
lies with the person calling for a motion to pass and rounding is clarified
through examples. This appears to be the easiest way to do it to be honest
without lots of verbosity which has the ability to hinder understanding
than improve it. If you have any alternative suggestions for wording they
would be most welcome although I suspect a similar discussion occurred when
the original Voting Protocol was written (PMJ: Perhaps you could confirm
this?).

I would draw note to the current voting protocol, in particular points 5
and 6:
https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/blob/master/bylaws/001-voting-protocol.md

--
Michael Cullum
FIG Secretary

On 24 August 2016 at 22:26, Alessandro Lai 
wrote:

> Larry, it think that the part about vote rounding is not clear enough;
> it's understandable through the examples, but the rule is somewhat
> "implicit" in there.
>
> Il giorno mercoledì 24 agosto 2016 15:51:27 UTC+2, Larry Garfield ha
> scritto:
>>
>> Can you note anything in particular that is clumsy to read?  We were
>> aiming for explicitness and lack of vagueness, which in prose does tend to
>> lead to verbosity.  To me it still reads fairly well, but as the author I
>> am of course biased on that front. :-)
>>
>> --Larry Garfield
>>
>> On 08/24/2016 05:27 AM, 'Alexander Makarov' via PHP Framework
>> Interoperability Group wrote:
>>
>> Well, clarity of the document. It takes time to find what you need so
>> maybe wording or structure could be improved for better comprehension,
>> cross-linking introduced etc.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 1:07:40 AM UTC+3, Alessandro Lai wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, the vote has now been canceled. I've just now finished reading
>>> again the full diff, and I've found clarifications about possible tie
>>> votes: majority must be +1 with 50%: https://github.com/php-fig/fig
>>> -standards/pull/752/files#diff-a7e6254aa839471064951898e0ebb021R17
>>>
>>> So basically no tie is possible.
>>>
>>> Are there any other doubts to be settled?
>>>
>>
>> --
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>
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