php-general Digest 22 Aug 2013 02:56:29 -0000 Issue 8339
php-general Digest 22 Aug 2013 02:56:29 - Issue 8339 Topics (messages 321937 through 321943): Re: PHP vs JAVA 321937 by: georg chambert 321938 by: Sebastian Krebs 321939 by: Stuart Dallas 321940 by: Curtis Maurand 321942 by: Sebastian Krebs 321943 by: Curtis Maurand Off the wall - sub-domain question 321941 by: Jim Giner Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: php-general-digest-subscr...@lists.php.net To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: php-general-digest-unsubscr...@lists.php.net To post to the list, e-mail: php-gene...@lists.php.net -- ---BeginMessage--- Hi, my I shake the subject a little; Ive been doing some PHP and found it ok to work with not so much fuss, but that was PHP4, what about PHP5 ? Dont really checked the difference but made a short-scan and found that it had be screwed around with ? Any think, should I change to 5 ? BR georg - Original Message - From: Tim Streater t...@clothears.org.uk To: PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com; php-gene...@lists.php.net Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- 2013/8/21 georg chambert georg.chamb...@telia.com Hi, my I shake the subject a little; Ive been doing some PHP and found it ok to work with not so much fuss, but that was PHP4, what about PHP5 ? Dont really checked the difference but made a short-scan and found that it had be screwed around with ? Any think, should I change to 5 ? ehm ... serious? http://php.net/eol.php BR georg - Original Message - From: Tim Streater t...@clothears.org.uk To: PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com; php-gene...@lists.php.net Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to
[PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
Hi, my I shake the subject a little; Ive been doing some PHP and found it ok to work with not so much fuss, but that was PHP4, what about PHP5 ? Dont really checked the difference but made a short-scan and found that it had be screwed around with ? Any think, should I change to 5 ? BR georg - Original Message - From: Tim Streater t...@clothears.org.uk To: PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com; php-general@lists.php.net Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
2013/8/21 georg chambert georg.chamb...@telia.com Hi, my I shake the subject a little; Ive been doing some PHP and found it ok to work with not so much fuss, but that was PHP4, what about PHP5 ? Dont really checked the difference but made a short-scan and found that it had be screwed around with ? Any think, should I change to 5 ? ehm ... serious? http://php.net/eol.php BR georg - Original Message - From: Tim Streater t...@clothears.org.uk To: PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com; php-general@lists.php.net Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim --**--** -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- github.com/KingCrunch
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
On 21 Aug 2013, at 15:01, georg chambert georg.chamb...@telia.com wrote: my I shake the subject a little; Ive been doing some PHP and found it ok to work with not so much fuss, but that was PHP4, what about PHP5 ? Dont really checked the difference but made a short-scan and found that it had be screwed around with ? Any think, should I change to 5 ? Yes, even if it's only because PHP4 hasn't been supported in any way, including security fixes, since August 7th, 2008! This fact alone makes it pretty dangerous to be using it on a public site, and that's without getting into all of the improvements that PHP5 has introduced over the past five years! -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
Sorry in advance for the top post. Use the right tool for the Job. I've use Java, C# and PHP. 1. I hate the Perl-like object calls in PHP. I'd rather use . notation in C# and Java. It saves a lot of wear and tear on my left pinky finger. 2. Java and C# are both typed languages. Say what you want, but I have working with a string like 02 and have PHP convert that to an integer. sometimes I want that zero in front. If I want that to be an integer in Java it's int myInteger = Integer.parseInt(02); 3. Java development environments (Eclipses, NetBeans, IBM RAD) are pretty horrible. Visual Studio is hands down a better envrionment, even the older versions of it. I've hooked Visual Studio into SVN in the past and it works well. 4 PHP development environments are many and varied and all of them suck at web debugging. I've used PHPEdit, Zend, Bluefish, Eclipse and a couple others. Bluefish works better on Linux than it does on Windows. Use the tool for the job at hand. Just my $0.02 worth. cheers, Curtis Tim Streater wrote: On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Off the wall - sub-domain question
I have a main domain (of course) and a sub domain. I'm really trying to steer my personal stuff away from the main one and have focused all of my php development to the sub-domain. Lately I noticed that google catalogs my sub-domain site stuff under the main domain name and the links that come up lead to that domain name with the path that takes the user to the sub-domain's home folder and beyond. Is there something that php (apache??) can do to control either google's robots or the user's view (url) so that it appears as a page of my sub-domain? I'm really new at this stuff and know nothing. I'm lucky that google is even finding my site! IN advance - I apologize for this off-topic question, but this place is a source of much knowledge, so I just threw in a quick interlude here to pick someone's brain. :) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
2013/8/21 Curtis Maurand cur...@maurand.com Sorry in advance for the top post. Use the right tool for the Job. I've use Java, C# and PHP. 1. I hate the Perl-like object calls in PHP. I'd rather use . notation in C# and Java. It saves a lot of wear and tear on my left pinky finger. Actually the problem is, that the dot . is already in use. With $foo.bar() you cannot tell, if you want to call the method bar() on the object $foo, or if you want to concatenate the value of $foo to the result of the function bar(). There is no other way around this than a different operator for method calls. 2. Java and C# are both typed languages. Say what you want, but I have working with a string like 02 and have PHP convert that to an integer. sometimes I want that zero in front. If I want that to be an integer in Java it's int myInteger = Integer.parseInt(02); 3. Java development environments (Eclipses, NetBeans, IBM RAD) are pretty horrible. Visual Studio is hands down a better envrionment, even the older versions of it. I've hooked Visual Studio into SVN in the past and it works well. Ever tried the jetbrains products? :D (No, they don't pay me) 4 PHP development environments are many and varied and all of them suck at web debugging. I've used PHPEdit, Zend, Bluefish, Eclipse and a couple others. Bluefish works better on Linux than it does on Windows. I use PhpStorm and it works quite fine. Use the tool for the job at hand. Just my $0.02 worth. cheers, Curtis Tim Streater wrote: On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- github.com/KingCrunch
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
Sebastian Krebs wrote: 2013/8/21 Curtis Maurand cur...@maurand.com Sorry in advance for the top post. Use the right tool for the Job. I've use Java, C# and PHP. 1. I hate the Perl-like object calls in PHP. I'd rather use . notation in C# and Java. It saves a lot of wear and tear on my left pinky finger. Actually the problem is, that the dot . is already in use. With $foo.bar() you cannot tell, if you want to call the method bar() on the object $foo, or if you want to concatenate the value of $foo to the result of the function bar(). There is no other way around this than a different operator for method calls. I didn't think of that. It seems to me there could be an easier operator than - which sometimes will make me stop and look at what keys I'm trying to hit. Just a thought. I forgot about the concatenation operator which is + in Java/C# 2. Java and C# are both typed languages. Say what you want, but I have working with a string like 02 and have PHP convert that to an integer. sometimes I want that zero in front. If I want that to be an integer in Java it's int myInteger = Integer.parseInt(02); 3. Java development environments (Eclipses, NetBeans, IBM RAD) are pretty horrible. Visual Studio is hands down a better envrionment, even the older versions of it. I've hooked Visual Studio into SVN in the past and it works well. Ever tried the jetbrains products? :D (No, they don't pay me) I have not, but it looks interesting. I'll have to try it. 4 PHP development environments are many and varied and all of them suck at web debugging. I've used PHPEdit, Zend, Bluefish, Eclipse and a couple others. Bluefish works better on Linux than it does on Windows. I use PhpStorm and it works quite fine. Use the tool for the job at hand. Just my $0.02 worth. cheers, Curtis Tim Streater wrote: On 20 Aug 2013 at 23:59, PHP List phpl...@arashidigital.com wrote: While I don't have any references to back it up - my guess would be that Java may be seen as more versatile in general programming terms. A staggering number of enterprise level web applications are built with Java, add to that the possibility of writing Android apps with the same knowledge. To me the salient point is, does java has as extensive a library or set of interfaces to other packages (such as SQLite, mysql, etc)? I would say that, in general, the other teacher is incorrect speaking strictly in terms of web development. PHP has already won that crown many times over. That said, when I was in University, it was difficult to find a programming class that taught anything but Java - and that was 10yrs ago now. I chalked it up to the education bubble not being able to see what the rest of the world is actually doing. Was PHP OOP-capable at the time? Perhaps the edu-bubble was simply looking down its nose at PHP. There being lots of courses proves nothing in and of itself. 20 years ago, there were lots of PC mags you could buy, which caused some folks to say look how much better the PC is supported than other platforms. Truth was, at the time, such support was needed given the mess of 640k limits, DOS, IRQs and the like, most of which issues have ceased to be relevant. Anyway, why should one need a course to learn PHP, assuming you already know other languages. It's simple enough. -- Cheers -- Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- github.com/KingCrunch
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs JAVA
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Curtis Maurand cur...@maurand.com wrote: Sebastian Krebs wrote: Actually the problem is, that the dot . is already in use. With $foo.bar() you cannot tell, if you want to call the method bar() on the object $foo, or if you want to concatenate the value of $foo to the result of the function bar(). There is no other way around this than a different operator for method calls. I didn't think of that. It seems to me there could be an easier operator than - which sometimes will make me stop and look at what keys I'm trying to hit. Just a thought. I forgot about the concatenation operator which is + in Java/C# The PHP language developers were pretty stuck. Because of automatic string-to-numeric-conversion, they couldn't use + for string concatenation. Sadly, they chose . rather than .. which I believe one or two other languages use. If they had, . would have been available once objects rolled around in PHP 4/5. I suspect they chose - since that's used in C and C++ to dereference a pointer. Ever tried the jetbrains products? :D (No, they don't pay me) I have not, but it looks interesting. I'll have to try it. Those are very good products which have had a strong following for a decade. The free IDE NetBeans also has quite good support for both Java and PHP, and the latest beta version provides a web project that provides front- and back-end debugging of PHP + JavaScript. You can be stepping through JS code and hit an AJAX call and then seamlessly step through the PHP code that handles it. I use NetBeans for PHP/HTML/JS (though I am evaluating JetBrains' PHPStorm now) and Eclipse for Java. You can't beat Eclipse's refactoring support in a free tool, though I think NetBeans is close to catching up. I would bet IntelliJ IDEA for Java by JetBrains is on par at least. Peace, David
