Re: [Fwd: Re: [PHP] PHP Developer Required]
Some people just have to whine. It's too bad people on this list have to put up with this behaviour. We do have a position available for someone who wants to work, and climb the ladder into what could be a lifelong career working with a leading edge group of developers. It is a foot in the door position, with potential to turn into a staff position, as most of these positions do, and a secure, well paying career with many benefits. You can find out more about some of the work undertaken at the centre by visiting the Web site. http://atrc.utoronto.ca/index.php?option=com_contenttask=blogcategoryid=26Itemid=109 greg mlists wrote: A university, which hypes the need for an education, charges a fortune for it (causing people to go into massive debt to get it), and then turns around an offers less than a living wage is hypocritical. Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are competivitive with the going rates. So for the first couple of years you get taken advantage of and then, maybe, you will get paid more! That is just not fair. On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 14:28 -0400, Greg Gay wrote: Rob/mlists You're certainly not encouraging PHP programmers to get involved with paid open source projects. That's a guaranteed $50,000 a yr, a little low perhaps by industry standards, but it is a reasonable starting rate, and gets your foot in the door. You should have a look at who the employer is, and what they do. They (we) are looking for a person who has done their research. This is more than just a job. It has the potential to introduce applicants to a world of experience, not just code crunching, but getting involved with the groups who introduce new technologies and working on leading edge projects (groups like the W3C, IMS, ISO, AICC, and many others) . Experiences you won't get as a programmer for your average software developer. The ATRC is involved with most standards bodies around the world, and has dozen of open source projects on the go. Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are competivitive with the going rates. Not to mention a full set of benefits, pension, excellent working environment, including flexible working hours, travel benefits, free university course (get a masters or phd for nothing) etc. Most staff start on a casual/contract basis before being moved into the main stream. Our established programmers do earn in the 90-100G per year, with benefits on top of that. All included, that's somewhere in the $60/hr range, with $0 expenses. You're auto machanic btw, has overhead included in that rate, so that's a rather poor comparison. How much do you think he really makes an hour, after paying expenses out of that $99? And of course 4% isn't a bonus. Contract workers are paid that weekly, while staff accumulate it so they can take holidays and get paid. greg Robert Cummings wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 13:47 -0400, mlists wrote: Wow! Spend $100K on a university degree in computer science, work successfully for five years with all the major technologies, and then get paid $25 per hour? The poster didn't mention anything about being competent. My auto mechanic charges an average of $99 per hour. Sounds like a great deal for the university. Maybe the successful candidate can work off his student loans. Well 100k is a bit high for a 4 year program. And then again it depends on whether you had to move away from your parents to attend university. If you live within commute range of your university then you can get away with 20 to 30k expenses in Canada (depending on University). If you have to cover rent then it's a different story :) That said, Toronto is one of the most expensive cities in Canada in which to live. IMHO he still thinks the tech sector is in a depression and developers with 5 years experience can be had for a pittance. What made me laugh was the 4% vacation pay. That's a legal requirement in Canada for full time employment. Not a bonus. Cheers, Rob. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [Fwd: Re: [PHP] PHP Developer Required]
Dan Shirah wrote: My only question is.is that $50,000 Canadian dollars or American? :) It's in Canadian dollars. Though there's not much difference between Canadian and American dollars any more. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[Fwd: Re: [PHP] PHP Developer Required]
Rob/mlists You're certainly not encouraging PHP programmers to get involved with paid open source projects. That's a guaranteed $50,000 a yr, a little low perhaps by industry standards, but it is a reasonable starting rate, and gets your foot in the door. You should have a look at who the employer is, and what they do. They (we) are looking for a person who has done their research. This is more than just a job. It has the potential to introduce applicants to a world of experience, not just code crunching, but getting involved with the groups who introduce new technologies and working on leading edge projects (groups like the W3C, IMS, ISO, AICC, and many others) . Experiences you won't get as a programmer for your average software developer. The ATRC is involved with most standards bodies around the world, and has dozen of open source projects on the go. Becoming university staff takes a couple years, after which salaries are competivitive with the going rates. Not to mention a full set of benefits, pension, excellent working environment, including flexible working hours, travel benefits, free university course (get a masters or phd for nothing) etc. Most staff start on a casual/contract basis before being moved into the main stream. Our established programmers do earn in the 90-100G per year, with benefits on top of that. All included, that's somewhere in the $60/hr range, with $0 expenses. You're auto machanic btw, has overhead included in that rate, so that's a rather poor comparison. How much do you think he really makes an hour, after paying expenses out of that $99? And of course 4% isn't a bonus. Contract workers are paid that weekly, while staff accumulate it so they can take holidays and get paid. greg Robert Cummings wrote: On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 13:47 -0400, mlists wrote: Wow! Spend $100K on a university degree in computer science, work successfully for five years with all the major technologies, and then get paid $25 per hour? The poster didn't mention anything about being competent. My auto mechanic charges an average of $99 per hour. Sounds like a great deal for the university. Maybe the successful candidate can work off his student loans. Well 100k is a bit high for a 4 year program. And then again it depends on whether you had to move away from your parents to attend university. If you live within commute range of your university then you can get away with 20 to 30k expenses in Canada (depending on University). If you have to cover rent then it's a different story :) That said, Toronto is one of the most expensive cities in Canada in which to live. IMHO he still thinks the tech sector is in a depression and developers with 5 years experience can be had for a pittance. What made me laugh was the 4% vacation pay. That's a legal requirement in Canada for full time employment. Not a bonus. Cheers, Rob. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP Developer Required
Title: Web Applications Developer Open August 30, 2007, Closing September 14, 2007 Formal Education: University Degree in computer science/engineering or related discipline Employer: University of Toronto, Faculty of Information Studies, Adaptive Technology Resource Centre, Description: Under the direction of the Project Manager, the successful applicant will take a leading role in the development of PHP web applications, and participate through these projects in a number of open source communities, assisting with community support, assisting clients developing functional specifications, and assisting with development and maintenance of a number of open source community Web sites. Opportunities will also be available to participate in a broad range of development projects under taken at the centre, working with international and local groups, government, corporate, health care, and not for profit sectors, among others. Experience: At least five years experience working in team programming environment. Advanced knowledge of PHP web application development. Working knowledge of SQL, Javascript, AJAX, JAVA, XML, SOAP, HTML, CSS and working in a distributed programming environment using Subversion. Comfortable working in both Windows and Linux environments. Working knowledge of Apache and Tomcat. Understanding of Web accessibility and working in open source development projects would be an asset Other: Flexibility, initiative and the ability to work and learn independently. Excellent communication skills and an ability to communicate technical details courteously and clearly to non-technical users. Starting Rate: $25/hr/CAD + 4% vacation pay Appointment Type: One year renewable contract Percentage of FTE: 100 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Forward Resume to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
