Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Richard Lynch wrote: On Wed, August 17, 2005 2:05 am, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 8/15/05, Miles Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with PHP 5 is that the ISP's have to be so conservative. There's no tagging mechanism which says process these files with PHP5, use PHP 4 for everything else. Does anyone here remember that on php 3 the file extensions were .php3? That made moving to php4 easy- files ending in .php3 was parsed as 3, and files ending in .php were parsed as 4. Why not do something similar when moving to 5 or 6? The .php3 extension was more of a pain in the ass than it saved... It was also possible to compile PHP3 and PHP4 in the same Apache - I do not think you can do that with 4/5. However, Rasmus posted a lovely explanation in this forum for EXACTLY how to have both 4 5 running on the same box. Search for Rasmus Lerdorf and proxy server and it should come up. Maybe like 3 or 4 months ago? actually he posted (an update?) a full on explanation (again!) just 5 days ago (on the 14th August 2005) on how to do it in reply to this thread! and he makes it sound so easy :-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On 8/19/05, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually he posted (an update?) a full on explanation (again!) just 5 days ago (on the 14th August 2005) on how to do it in reply to this thread! I had to read your post twice to understand to which _he_ you are referring. Then I reread the subject (You are the OP, Jochem, right?) and figured it out. and he makes it sound so easy :-) Well, that's how he got the single-quoted title, no? Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/167/doors.php The Doors Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On Wed, August 17, 2005 2:05 am, Dotan Cohen wrote: On 8/15/05, Miles Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with PHP 5 is that the ISP's have to be so conservative. There's no tagging mechanism which says process these files with PHP5, use PHP 4 for everything else. Does anyone here remember that on php 3 the file extensions were .php3? That made moving to php4 easy- files ending in .php3 was parsed as 3, and files ending in .php were parsed as 4. Why not do something similar when moving to 5 or 6? The .php3 extension was more of a pain in the ass than it saved... It was also possible to compile PHP3 and PHP4 in the same Apache - I do not think you can do that with 4/5. However, Rasmus posted a lovely explanation in this forum for EXACTLY how to have both 4 5 running on the same box. Search for Rasmus Lerdorf and proxy server and it should come up. Maybe like 3 or 4 months ago? -- Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On 8/18/05, Richard Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The .php3 extension was more of a pain in the ass than it saved... It was also possible to compile PHP3 and PHP4 in the same Apache - I do not think you can do that with 4/5. However, Rasmus posted a lovely explanation in this forum for EXACTLY how to have both 4 5 running on the same box. Search for Rasmus Lerdorf and proxy server and it should come up. Maybe like 3 or 4 months ago? Like Music? http://l-i-e.com/artists.htm Thanks, Richard. I was considering which version to install at home. I'll just do both! Dotan http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/202/fleetwood_mac.php Fleetwood Mac Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On 8/15/05, Miles Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with PHP 5 is that the ISP's have to be so conservative. There's no tagging mechanism which says process these files with PHP5, use PHP 4 for everything else. Does anyone here remember that on php 3 the file extensions were .php3? That made moving to php4 easy- files ending in .php3 was parsed as 3, and files ending in .php were parsed as 4. Why not do something similar when moving to 5 or 6? Dotan Cohen http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/118/chumbawamba.php Chumbawamba Song Lyrics -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Not only that, but as time goes by, community support (this list for instance) for 4 will likely diminish as others move on to later releases. Not only will the die-hard PHP4 users find it harder to get answers to their questions, but their answers to others will become less relevant to newer-version users. I can speak form experience here, not PHP as this is such a wonderful community, but Lasso. I used Lasso v3 from 2001-2005, hooking a FileMaker solution to the web for a relatively small but complex UK-wide university service and didn't need to upgrade to v5 when that rolled out (it wasn't broke etc etc). As I developed the PHP/MySQL solution that has now replaced it, I still needed to maintain and improve the existing Lasso site. I found that I was one of the only v3 users on the list and started getting nil responses to pleas for help. If you have the time, it's worth going with the flow, if not, then consider jumping at say - every two years (at most) to keep up to date. Just my 2p (no cents in England) George in Oxford -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
l0t3k wrote: not only encoding support, but internationalized date/time/number formatting support (including spellout), collation, breakiteration and transliteration. in many respects we'll be on par with Java I18N support. To see what will be available, see http://icu.sourceforge.net/userguide/ thanks for the link l0t3k. :-) and look at the topics on the left l0t3k Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] the biggest gain in php6 will be transparent unicode support - that is awesome, a really big plus - I'm crap at encoding et al and would really love it if php could handle all those funny characters without me having to think about it too much (and without having to using mb_string or iconv) - I run a couple of multi-lingual sites - right now I just pray every night that nobody asks me to implement japanese, or something, there ;-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : snip anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. /snip I'm (we're) still using PHP4. Mainly because there's been no reason for us to upgrade. ie, we're not doing anything that requires PHP5 (and if there is no feature in PHP6 that we have to have, we won't be upgrading to that either). -- John C. Nichel ÜberGeek KegWorks.com 716.856.9675 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
John Nichel wrote: Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : snip anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. /snip I'm (we're) still using PHP4. Mainly because there's been no reason for us to upgrade. ie, we're not doing anything that requires PHP5 (and if there is no feature in PHP6 that we have to have, we won't be upgrading to that either). my gut feeling is that php4 will remain on most large hosting systems for now, ... that php 5 is for people who enjoy the bleeding edge just a little and what to play/use newer functionality... by the time php6 comes out and has stabilized the majors will be more interested in moving direct to 6 from 4. pyschologically its also in line with the way the linux kernel is numbered - i.e. 2.x where x is even indicates a 'truely' stable/production release. that said php5 is in my mind a great improvement - I really enjoy the new OO functionality and speed increase bue to object referencing - that said I have most of my code aimed specifically at php5. the biggest gain in php6 will be transparent unicode support - that is awesome, a really big plus - I'm crap at encoding et al and would really love it if php could handle all those funny characters without me having to think about it too much (and without having to using mb_string or iconv) - I run a couple of multi-lingual sites - right now I just pray every night that nobody asks me to implement japanese, or something, there ;-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Jochem Maas wrote: John Nichel wrote: snip I'm (we're) still using PHP4. Mainly because there's been no reason for us to upgrade. ie, we're not doing anything that requires PHP5 (and if there is no feature in PHP6 that we have to have, we won't be upgrading to that either). my gut feeling is that php4 will remain on most large hosting systems for now, ... that php 5 is for people who enjoy the bleeding edge just a little and what to play/use newer functionality... by the time php6 comes out and has stabilized the majors will be more interested in moving direct to 6 from 4. pyschologically its also in line with the way the linux kernel is numbered - i.e. 2.x where x is even indicates a 'truely' stable/production release. /snip The thing that is probably going to push us from 4 to 5 or 6 will be MySQL. We just hired a new CEO here who is very into advancing our backend (to describe how much of a cluster-f**k it is would take twenty emails). One of our moves in the next year or so will be moving from MySQL 4.0 to 4.1 or greater. snip the biggest gain in php6 will be transparent unicode support - that is awesome, a really big plus - I'm crap at encoding et al and would really love it if php could handle all those funny characters without me having to think about it too much (and without having to using mb_string or iconv) - I run a couple of multi-lingual sites - right now I just pray every night that nobody asks me to implement japanese, or something, there ;-) /snip Yeah, that will probably be a big gain for us in the future too. The tiny bit of encoding we do is just merely a pain right now, but when we branch out to selling to the rest of Europe (we just sell to the UK and Canada outside of the US right now), the unicode support will come in real handy. -- John C. Nichel ÜberGeek KegWorks.com 716.856.9675 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
I'm (we're) still using PHP4. Mainly because there's been no reason for us to upgrade. ie, we're not doing anything that requires PHP5 (and if there is no feature in PHP6 that we have to have, we won't be upgrading to that either). I don't see the problem with this, unless it will be more difficult to upgrade from PHP4 to PHP6, than from PHP5 to PHP6. What I mean is, will upgrading to 5 now make the upgrade to 6 (or 7, or 9, or 11) easier in the future. So 5 has no features that I need right now. 6 probably doesn't either. But when PHP11 comes out and I must have it, will I be able to easily upgrade from 4? Will I expend less time/effort/risk making each upgrade as it is released that I would making a 5 version jump? Maybe its worth the time and effort to upgrade even if I don't need the features in the new release, just to make it easier to upgrade to the next one(s) down the line. Not only that, but as time goes by, community support (this list for instance) for 4 will likely diminish as others move on to later releases. Not only will the die-hard PHP4 users find it harder to get answers to their questions, but their answers to others will become less relevant to newer-version users. Just my .02 JM -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
not only encoding support, but internationalized date/time/number formatting support (including spellout), collation, breakiteration and transliteration. in many respects we'll be on par with Java I18N support. To see what will be available, see http://icu.sourceforge.net/userguide/ and look at the topics on the left l0t3k Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] the biggest gain in php6 will be transparent unicode support - that is awesome, a really big plus - I'm crap at encoding et al and would really love it if php could handle all those funny characters without me having to think about it too much (and without having to using mb_string or iconv) - I run a couple of multi-lingual sites - right now I just pray every night that nobody asks me to implement japanese, or something, there ;-) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
At 11:59 AM 8/15/2005, Jim Moseby wrote: I'm (we're) still using PHP4. Mainly because there's been no reason for us to upgrade. ie, we're not doing anything that requires PHP5 (and if there is no feature in PHP6 that we have to have, we won't be upgrading to that either). I don't see the problem with this, unless it will be more difficult to upgrade from PHP4 to PHP6, than from PHP5 to PHP6. What I mean is, will upgrading to 5 now make the upgrade to 6 (or 7, or 9, or 11) easier in the future. So 5 has no features that I need right now. 6 probably doesn't either. But when PHP11 comes out and I must have it, will I be able to easily upgrade from 4? Will I expend less time/effort/risk making each upgrade as it is released that I would making a 5 version jump? Maybe its worth the time and effort to upgrade even if I don't need the features in the new release, just to make it easier to upgrade to the next one(s) down the line. Not only that, but as time goes by, community support (this list for instance) for 4 will likely diminish as others move on to later releases. Not only will the die-hard PHP4 users find it harder to get answers to their questions, but their answers to others will become less relevant to newer-version users. Just my .02 JM A good parallel is what happened with Visual FoxPro and with PageMaker. When VFP 3 came out it broke the mould of FoxPro development, and it was a huge leap to adjust; product was not really mature and VFP 5 was great. VFP6 was even better - but a leap from 3 to 6 was almost impossible because so much had been changed in the interface and feature set. At least MSFT is doing it properly now, and announcing that VFP10 will be it, then no more. PageMaker was worse, but it's so long ago now that my memory's faulty. I think it was around PM3 or PM4 that the file format changed; if you had the earlier version, PM4 and later could not read the older files, you had to obtain a crippled version of PM3, which could only open the old version and save in the new, and then work on those files in the newer version. Of course a lot of stuff got busted. And of course, there is Visual Basic - where development stopped at version 6 and a new .NET language, labelled Visual Basic was introduced. So much stuff in VB 6 was broken that moving the code to the .NET language named Visual Basic is well nigh impossible. The problem with PHP 5 is that the ISP's have to be so conservative. There's no tagging mechanism which says process these files with PHP5, use PHP 4 for everything else. So, based on experience, better to move early than later. I suspect a jump from PHP4 to PHP6 will be huge -- the problem is to move the ISPs. Regards - Miles -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Sebastian wrote: so i am 'afraid' of going with php5 in fear it will break my website. It's rather trivial to test it. Set up a second Apache server with php5 loaded that listens to port 81 or some other port and point it at the same document_root. Then you can switch back and forth by just changing the port number in the URL. Or, if you, or your application, doesn't like having :81 in the url everywhere, you can set up a VirtualHost on your port 80 server just like you set up virtualhosts for anything else and in it add a ProxyPass to port 81. Like this: VirtualHost * ServerName name1.yourdomain.com DocumentRoot /var/www/html ... other standard config lines... /VirtualHost VirtualHost * ServerName name2.yourdomain.com DocumentRoot /var/www/html ProxyPass / http://name2.yourdomain.com:81/ /VirtualHost In your httpd81.conf or whatever you call it you have your regular VirtualHost block for the name2.yourdomain.com. The only real difference is that at the top you have a Listen 81 line instead of Listen 80. So now you can point your browser at http://name1.yourdomain.com and you get the PHP4 version of your site and if you go to http://name2.yourdomain.com you get the PHP5 version. I typically run at least 2 versions of PHP on my main server, sometimes more. You have to fiddle a bit with whatever mechanism you use to start and stop your server so it will start and stop the different versions. I tend to just cheat and copy my /etc/init.d/apache to /etc/init.d/apache81 and edit it appropriately changing the name of the conf file and the pid file. So I can start and stop the different versions manually. Building multiple versions of PHP isn't very hard either. The only real trick is to use the --prefix configure flag. Something like --prefix=/usr/local/php5. Then when you make install it will not overwrite any of your PHP4 stuff, with the one exception that it will try to modify your main httpd.conf by adding a LoadModule mod_php5.c /usr/libexec/apache/libphp5.so (or some similar path). Just go abd get rid of that line after your make install and move it to the httpd81.conf file. Also remember to add something like: --with-config-file-path=/etc/php5 So you can have separate php.ini files. Someone also mentioned the lack of decent opcode acceleration for PHP5. pecl/apc has come a long way over the last couple of months. Give it a try. I'd love to get some more feedback on it. To install it: pear install apc Will work if you are lucky. I tend to prefer doing it a bit more manually: cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/repository login password: phpfi cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/repository co pecl/apc cd pecl/apc phpize ./configure --enable-apc-mmap --with-apxs --with-php-config=/usr/local/php5/bin/php-config make install Then add this to you /etc/php5/php.ini file: extension=apc.so apc.enabled=1 apc.shm_segments=1 apc.optimization=0 apc.shm_size=32 apc.num_files_hint=1000 apc.mmap_file_mask=/tmp/apc.XX Obviously you can do a make clean and run ./configure again but this time point it at your php4 php-config file and build yourself an apc.so that you can use for your PHP 4 setup as well. Then copy the apc.php script that is included to your document_root and point your browser at it. You may want to password protect it. Or edit the top of the script where you can set a password. You will end up with something that looks like this: http://buzz.progphp.com/apc.php I don't really do Windows, but most of this will work on Windows as well (I think). You can find APC builds for Windows on http://snaps.php.net. But save yourself some headaches and grab a spare PC and install Linux (I prefer Debian, but it is a hassle to install for newcomers, the Ubuntu installer makes life easier), FreeBSD, or heck even the newly available OpenSolaris-x86 (I need to do that soon so I can play with the ultra-cool DTrace they have). Long rambling email, but hopefully it will inspire a few people to go push the edges a bit. Don't forget to report any bugs you find. For APC bugs, report them here: http://pecl.php.net/bugs/report.php?package=APC For APC docs, see the INSTALL file in the source, or go to: http://livedocs.phpdoc.info/index.php?l=enq=ref.apc Which is mostly the same thing webified. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
In a message dated 8/14/2005 2:42:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's rather trivial to test it. Set up a second Apache server with php5 loaded that listens to port 81 or some other port and point it at the same document_root. Then you can switch back and forth by just changing the port number in the URL. Or, if you, or your application, doesn't like having :81 in the url everywhere, you can set up a VirtualHost on your port 80 server just like you set up virtualhosts for anything else and in it add a ProxyPass to port 81. Like this: VirtualHost * ServerName name1.yourdomain.com DocumentRoot /var/www/html ... other standard config lines... /VirtualHost VirtualHost * ServerName name2.yourdomain.com DocumentRoot /var/www/html ProxyPass / http://name2.yourdomain.com:81/ /VirtualHost In your httpd81.conf or whatever you call it you have your regular VirtualHost block for the name2.yourdomain.com. The only real difference is that at the top you have a Listen 81 line instead of Listen 80. What about XAMPP? It has a switch button that you can switch from PHP 4 to 5 really easy? Just a thought... It's what I use. _http://apachefriends.org/en/_ (http://apachefriends.org/en/) Features: Apache HTTPD 2.0.54, MySQL 4.1.12, PHP 5.0.4 + 4.3.11 + PEAR + Switch, MiniPerl 5.8.6, Openssl 0.9.7g, PHPMyAdmin 2.6.2-pl1, XAMPP Control Panel 1.0, eAccelerator 0.9.3, Webalizer 2.01-10, Mercury Mail Transport System für Win32 und NetWare Systems v4.01a, FileZilla FTP Server 0.9.8a, SQLite 2.8.15, ADODB 4.63, Zend Optimizer 2.5.7, XAMPP Security. For Windows 98, 2000, XP. - Clint
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: I don't really do Windows, but most of this will work on Windows as well (I think). You can find APC builds for Windows on http://snaps.php.net. But save yourself some headaches and grab a spare PC and install Linux (I prefer Debian, but it is a hassle to install for newcomers, the Ubuntu installer makes life easier), FreeBSD, or heck even the newly available OpenSolaris-x86 (I need to do that soon so I can play with the ultra-cool DTrace they have). I have the spare machine - but finding time to set it up and and re-learn 15 year old unix is proving difficult :( The main problem is windows runs Apache2/PHP5 out of the box, so I have not had to worry. The new version just goes on the 'eng' machine, and once I've had a few days clear operation all the other machines get switched. I've had to drop a PHP4 back on as well because of the problems 4.4.0 has created with working legacy sites - *THAT* should have been killed at birth and the lessons should be passed on to PHP6. Lets not have THREE version of PHP on the go at once ! Kill 4 before pushing 6 - but actually I see nothing in 6 that can't be properly added to 5 ? -- Lester Caine - L.S.Caine Electronic Services -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
* Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch i spent hundreds of hours building my site on php4, im not about to rewrite any of it to make it 'compatible' with php5. Don't rewrite it to make it compatible with PHP5 -- rewrite it to take advantage of PHP5's better performance and new features. Besides, you probably will not need to rewrite any code -- probably just do some cleanup and a few changes. More below. maybe my impressions of php5 are wrong, but last i heard apps built on php4 may or may not work right under php5 - meaning you would have to rewrite code. am i wrong? I've converted quite a bit of PHP4 code to PHP5, and I've had very few problems. Typically, I find that I get a few notices about deprecated functions or some warnings -- and the warnings are usually about things that should have generated warnings in PHP4, didn't, but now do in PHP5 (things like declaring a class property twice, for instance). The fixes for these are typically not rewrites, but, as I said, fixes -- if anything, they make the code better. Additionally, it's fairly easy to make such code backwards compatible with PHP4, if you feel the need to do so. so i am 'afraid' of going with php5 in fear it will break my website. The only way to find out if it will break is to try it. I'm willing to wager that your code, if written well, will not only *not* break, but likely perform better. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney Zend Certified Engineer http://weierophinney.net/matthew/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
* Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Sat, 2005-08-13 at 23:51, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) to cut it short for those to busy, or what not, Rasmus offered his his vision of php6 (which seems will be the version that will first bring the awesome unicode [and date?] functionality to the masses - hey thats us! :-) ) and there seems to be pretty much unanimous agreement on his main points (lots of discussion on more issues/ideas other people have brung up in response) the future's bright, the future is green. why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. While I've dabbled with PHP5 and made my framework compatible with it I haven't bothered to make a wholehearted leap into it. The following reasons basicly sum up why, and are probably common amongst those that aren't leaping into PHP5. - Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Many PHP developers have spent years using PHP4 and know it inside and out and have come to terms with all of it's deficiencies... as few as those may be once you learn how to adapt to them. This is a fear-based argument. Arguments like this prevent innovation. Yes, I know PHP4's deficiencies and quirks inside and out -- but that doesn't mean I should stick with them. If I were to use that argument, I would never have left perl for PHP. PHP5 actually *fixes* many of PHP4's deficiences and quirks -- such as how objects are passed, how errors are handled, etc. I jumped onto PHP5 because I wanted a PHP that worked *better*. - A multitude of code already exists that is known to work under PHP4 but can be expected to have quirks when run under PHP5. Explain. My experience, while limited, has shown that well-written PHP4 code generally works quite well under PHP5. - Much of the code written in PHP4 works without the new features of PHP5 and so there's no compelling reason to invest time and resources for 0 ROI other than compatibility with PHP5. Except that if you stay on an old version of PHP4, someday it will be deprecated and you'll *have* to upgrade. I, for one, would rather take smaller steps over time between versions than need to scrap an entire project and rewrite it from the ground up when the version reaches end-of-life. The ROI may be zero or small now, but priceless later. - PHP5 had a large focus on bringing missing OOP features to PHP that have little merit to those who write mostly procedural code. The OOP rewrite was only a portion of the changes brought into PHP5. What about exceptions, or the mysqli support, or the simplexml addition, or...? There's a lot of stuff in PHP5 that procedural programmers can utilize. - Accelerators for PHP5 are not particularly good at this time, so unless you've got cash to shell out to Zend (which can be expensive for the little guy) then why move from your trusty PHP4 accelerators that already get the job done satisfactorily. As Rasmus noted under separate cover, the APC project has made tremendous headway in the past few months, and is working fairly well with PHP5 at this time. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney Zend Certified Engineer http://weierophinney.net/matthew/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On Sun, 2005-08-14 at 13:52, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. While I've dabbled with PHP5 and made my framework compatible with it I haven't bothered to make a wholehearted leap into it. The following reasons basicly sum up why, and are probably common amongst those that aren't leaping into PHP5. - Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Many PHP developers have spent years using PHP4 and know it inside and out and have come to terms with all of it's deficiencies... as few as those may be once you learn how to adapt to them. This is a fear-based argument. Arguments like this prevent innovation. Yes, I know PHP4's deficiencies and quirks inside and out -- but that doesn't mean I should stick with them. If I were to use that argument, I would never have left perl for PHP. This may be a fear based argument, but it's also a perfectly adequate and common argument. While there's some degree of fear, moving into the realm of knowing PHP5 inside and out like many of us know PHP4 will require much of our time and resources, that perhaps many of us do not feel like investing right now. Undoubtedly as you have left perl for PHP there will come a time when the benefits of PHP5 or PHP6, or whatever, will seem compelling enough for many to make the leap. But just because it's a new version does not in any way dictate to us that we MUST make the leap now, just as when PHP4 first came out I doubt greatly you said to yourself holy crap PHP4, I must dump Perl immediately. In contrast when PHP4 came out, PHP3 sucked sufficiently for many of us to make the leap as fast as possible to take advantage of the better engine. PHP5 actually *fixes* many of PHP4's deficiences and quirks -- such as how objects are passed, how errors are handled, etc. I jumped onto PHP5 because I wanted a PHP that worked *better*. A PHP that works better is quite subjective. Sure PHP5 works better in some areas, especially how objects are handled, but if I run script A under PHP4 and I run it under PHP5 and there's no difference, then who cares? - A multitude of code already exists that is known to work under PHP4 but can be expected to have quirks when run under PHP5. Explain. My experience, while limited, has shown that well-written PHP4 code generally works quite well under PHP5. Yes, well written code generally works quite well under PHP5, whether my framework was written well or not is not for me to say, but I can attest to having only had to change very few lines of code to make it work. That said, I did have to change lines of code, and from what I recall they weren't erroneous lines of code, just things PHP5 decided it didn't like. Although admittedly I had to change some lines of code for PHP 4.4.0 also :) - Much of the code written in PHP4 works without the new features of PHP5 and so there's no compelling reason to invest time and resources for 0 ROI other than compatibility with PHP5. Except that if you stay on an old version of PHP4, someday it will be deprecated and you'll *have* to upgrade. I, for one, would rather take smaller steps over time between versions than need to scrap an entire project and rewrite it from the ground up when the version reaches end-of-life. The ROI may be zero or small now, but priceless later. Allow me to point to Apache 1 versus Apache 2. I don't see a mass migration to Apache 2. In fact I bet you're probably still using Apache 1. At any rate, as I've said I updated my framework, I'm not arguing against the utility of upgrading, only that many programmers of legacy code, especially crappy legacy code, aren't going to feel compelled to upgrade. Also I'm sure there's plenty of code out there used by lots of people, but no longer maintained. - PHP5 had a large focus on bringing missing OOP features to PHP that have little merit to those who write mostly procedural code. The OOP rewrite was only a portion of the changes brought into PHP5. What about exceptions, or the mysqli support, or the simplexml addition, or...? There's a lot of stuff in PHP5 that procedural programmers can utilize. I'll be honest here... I could care less about exceptions, mysqli support or simplexml support. Everything in PHP4 was adequate for my needs and needs I see in the future. These features are nice to have, and I do make comments on the internals list for new features often enough (in the hopes that in the future when I finally do make the wholehearted move to PHP5 or even PHP6 only compatibility the features are already there), but they aren't compelling enough to make me make a break from PHP 4 compatibility just yet. And while I'm maintaining PHP4
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch i spent hundreds of hours building my site on php4, im not about to rewrite any of it to make it 'compatible' with php5. Don't rewrite it to make it compatible with PHP5 -- rewrite it to take advantage of PHP5's better performance and new features. Besides, you probably will not need to rewrite any code -- probably just do some cleanup and a few changes. More below. maybe my impressions of php5 are wrong, but last i heard apps built on php4 may or may not work right under php5 - meaning you would have to rewrite code. am i wrong? I've converted quite a bit of PHP4 code to PHP5, and I've had very few problems. Typically, I find that I get a few notices about deprecated functions or some warnings -- and the warnings are usually about things that should have generated warnings in PHP4, didn't, but now do in PHP5 (things like declaring a class property twice, for instance). The fixes for these are typically not rewrites, but, as I said, fixes -- if anything, they make the code better. Additionally, it's fairly easy to make such code backwards compatible with PHP4, if you feel the need to do so. so i am 'afraid' of going with php5 in fear it will break my website. The only way to find out if it will break is to try it. I'm willing to wager that your code, if written well, will not only *not* break, but likely perform better. The only thing I had to change to make my [3 lines of code, OOP] project PHP5 compatible was that I couldn't use the word exception, because it was reserved in PHP5. Right now I have better performance (around 50% better), and the system uses less memory [ probably caused by the fact that objects are passed by reference ] Maybe we can make a list of things you have to think about before migrating from PHP4 to 5. Right now the only ones I can think of are: * New reserved words * If you rely on PHP4's object passing behaviour, your code will break Anything else? Evert -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian wrote: i spent hundreds of hours building my site on php4, im not about to rewrite any of it to make it 'compatible' with php5. Don't rewrite it to make it compatible with PHP5 -- rewrite it to take advantage of PHP5's better performance and new features. Besides, you probably will not need to rewrite any code -- probably just do some cleanup and a few changes. More below. maybe my impressions of php5 are wrong, but last i heard apps built on php4 may or may not work right under php5 - meaning you would have to rewrite code. am i wrong? I've converted quite a bit of PHP4 code to PHP5, and I've had very few problems. Typically, I find that I get a few notices about deprecated functions or some warnings -- and the warnings are usually about things that should have generated warnings in PHP4, didn't, but now do in PHP5 (things like declaring a class property twice, for instance). The fixes for these are typically not rewrites, but, as I said, fixes -- if anything, they make the code better. Additionally, it's fairly easy to make such code backwards compatible with PHP4, if you feel the need to do so. so i am 'afraid' of going with php5 in fear it will break my website. The only way to find out if it will break is to try it. I'm willing to wager that your code, if written well, will not only *not* break, but likely perform better. explain better performance. if i have a script written on php4 and i run it on php5 i doubt its going to be any faster.. even so, i don't think there is much if at all any speed gain from php4 to php5... speculating of course, but i have yet to read any evidence php5 is faster than php4. a few extra features isn't enough to convince *most* to switch to php5. now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Sebastian wrote: Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: ... explain better performance. if i have a script written on php4 and i run it on php5 i doubt its going to be any faster.. even so, i don't think there is much if at all any speed gain from php4 to php5... speculating of course, but i have yet to read any evidence php5 is faster than php4. bloomin' try it for yourself. a few extra features isn't enough to convince *most* to switch to php5. now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) call me legion, we say php5 is 20% faster than php4. happy now. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On Sun, 2005-08-14 at 16:32, Jochem Maas wrote: Sebastian wrote: Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: ... explain better performance. if i have a script written on php4 and i run it on php5 i doubt its going to be any faster.. even so, i don't think there is much if at all any speed gain from php4 to php5... speculating of course, but i have yet to read any evidence php5 is faster than php4. bloomin' try it for yourself. a few extra features isn't enough to convince *most* to switch to php5. now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) call me legion, we say php5 is 20% faster than php4. happy now. Lies :) But it is very likely that if you have an app that makes heavy use of OOP that you might actually get a 20% speedup. Though that will depend on whether you passed your objects around by value or by reference. Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On 8/14/05, Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) Who is 'they' ? Go write a benchmark and see for yourself. -- Greg Donald Zend Certified Engineer MySQL Core Certification http://destiney.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Greg Donald wrote: On 8/14/05, Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) Who is 'they' ? Go write a benchmark and see for yourself. obviously coming from the developers.. i guess im more or less wanting to know exactly where the php5 performance gains are over php4, if any. sure i can do benchmarks, but again, would be nice to hear from the devs on certain performance gains as well as overall. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Sebastian wrote: Greg Donald wrote: On 8/14/05, Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: now if they say php5 is 20% faster than php4 than i would upgrade overnight ;) Who is 'they' ? Go write a benchmark and see for yourself. obviously coming from the developers.. i guess im more or less wanting to know exactly where the php5 performance gains are over php4, if any. sure i can do benchmarks, but again, would be nice to hear from the devs on certain performance gains as well as overall. As Robert said, if you have heavy Object Oriented applications (properly coded), PHP5 is likely to speed up your application, in some cases, remarkably. It also gains in other cases, such as when using certain template engines, where the cached templates are a lot faster, for instance Flexy and Sigma, which I've found were lots faster on PHP5. Regards, Torgny -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) to cut it short for those to busy, or what not, Rasmus offered his his vision of php6 (which seems will be the version that will first bring the awesome unicode [and date?] functionality to the masses - hey thats us! :-) ) and there seems to be pretty much unanimous agreement on his main points (lots of discussion on more issues/ideas other people have brung up in response) the future's bright, the future is green. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) I suppose I am halfbaked. Maybe even a bit burnt and crispy on the edges, Jochem. Greatest news I've heard in a long time. Remove register_globals and magic_quotes_*! Wow. Well, considering that they've been the cause for most of the simpler PHP hacks that could have been prevented had not register_globals been active. :P I am not so sure that removing function aliases and making identifiers case-sensitive is academic purity alone, though. I consider that a very good step towards more easily managed code, that way there's only one function, and no aliases, or case-specific variations thereof. After reading the responses to Rasmus' post I am delighted to see that most of the list has agreed to this as well, splendid. Some of these were what I had expected for 5.x though, so in part I am disappointed that they were not already removed/implemented. /Torgny -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Torgny Bjers wrote: Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) I suppose I am halfbaked. Maybe even a bit burnt and crispy on the edges, Jochem. :-) Greatest news I've heard in a long time. Remove register_globals and magic_quotes_*! Wow. Well, considering that they've been the cause for most of the simpler PHP hacks that could have been prevented had not register_globals been active. :P I am not so sure that removing function aliases and making identifiers case-sensitive is academic purity alone, though. I consider that a very good step towards more easily managed code, that way there's only one function, and no aliases, or case-specific variations thereof. After reading the responses to Rasmus' post I am delighted to see that most of the list has agreed to this as well, splendid. Some of these were what I had expected for 5.x though, so in part I am disappointed that they were not already removed/implemented. the problem is BC. given that so many massive changes are scheduled for what will become 6.0 that will entail BC breakage anyway the core guys seem to think its a good point to break some more. I think it's sensible, breaking BC is a dangerous thing to do and not to be taken lightly when you have a user base as massive as that of php. in the mean time we have a faster 'execution model' to look forward to in 5.1 - _faster_ OO code! yippee :-) /Torgny -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I will be out of the office until Monday 15th August. trust phil to be on holiday. Kind regards, Phil Ewington. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) to cut it short for those to busy, or what not, Rasmus offered his his vision of php6 (which seems will be the version that will first bring the awesome unicode [and date?] functionality to the masses - hey thats us! :-) ) and there seems to be pretty much unanimous agreement on his main points (lots of discussion on more issues/ideas other people have brung up in response) the future's bright, the future is green. why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. kinda of how apache2 hasn't been a real success over apache1. i just hope php doesn't end up being bloat-filled with the not-so-useful thing just taking up resources. i only been coding in php for a couple(3) years so maybe i have no idea what im talking about. maybe a 'php-lite' version ;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
* Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) to cut it short for those to busy, or what not, Rasmus offered his his vision of php6 (which seems will be the version that will first bring the awesome unicode [and date?] functionality to the masses - hey thats us! :-) ) and there seems to be pretty much unanimous agreement on his main points (lots of discussion on more issues/ideas other people have brung up in response) the future's bright, the future is green. why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. kinda of how apache2 hasn't been a real success over apache1. That's a completely different story. Apache2's internal structure adds thread support, and since many loadable modules are not necessarily threadsafe, using them with Apache2 often negatively impact performance (PHP, for instance, must be run non-threaded because many of the libraries against which it links are not threadsafe -- and thus running PHP on Apache2 is much less efficient than on Apache1). The differences between PHP4 and PH5 are much more trivial, and those people who choose to use the features of PHP5 are not going to lose performance or functionality -- actually, quite the opposite. i just hope php doesn't end up being bloat-filled with the not-so-useful thing just taking up resources. I think one of the things I like most about PHP is that you can easily compile it with *only* the features you need -- it only needs as much bloat as you need to use it. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney Zend Certified Engineer http://weierophinney.net/matthew/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On Sat, 2005-08-13 at 23:51, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Jochem Maas wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php IMHO every halfbaked php coder should read it ;-) to cut it short for those to busy, or what not, Rasmus offered his his vision of php6 (which seems will be the version that will first bring the awesome unicode [and date?] functionality to the masses - hey thats us! :-) ) and there seems to be pretty much unanimous agreement on his main points (lots of discussion on more issues/ideas other people have brung up in response) the future's bright, the future is green. why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch. While I've dabbled with PHP5 and made my framework compatible with it I haven't bothered to make a wholehearted leap into it. The following reasons basicly sum up why, and are probably common amongst those that aren't leaping into PHP5. - Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Many PHP developers have spent years using PHP4 and know it inside and out and have come to terms with all of it's deficiencies... as few as those may be once you learn how to adapt to them. - A multitude of code already exists that is known to work under PHP4 but can be expected to have quirks when run under PHP5. - Much of the code written in PHP4 works without the new features of PHP5 and so there's no compelling reason to invest time and resources for 0 ROI other than compatibility with PHP5. - PHP5 had a large focus on bringing missing OOP features to PHP that have little merit to those who write mostly procedural code. - Accelerators for PHP5 are not particularly good at this time, so unless you've got cash to shell out to Zend (which can be expensive for the little guy) then why move from your trusty PHP4 accelerators that already get the job done satisfactorily. I'm sure there's more reasons I just haven't bothered to think long enough about. These ones just came to the top of my head :) BTW I have no problem with the fact Zend charges for their accelerator, they are a business after all, I'm just arguing the case for those of limited resources. Cheers, Rob. -- .. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
On 8/13/05 5:31 PM, Jochem Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if you haven't seen it yet and are interested in the future of php you might be interested in the _big_ thread on php-internals that starts with the message: http://www.manucorp.com/archives/internals/200508/msg00398.php Maybe even on a website that handles threads a bit more gracefully :) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/mailing.www.php-dev/browse_frm/thread/26 8910860a3f8255/37654d19dafac8a9?lnk=stq=rasmus+lerdorf+6.0rnum=1hl=en#376 54d19dafac8a9 Or http://beeblex.com/lists/index.php/php.internals/17883 http://beeblex.com/lists/thread.php/363786 (RSS 2.0) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] 'God' has spoken... :-)
Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote: * Sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] : why php6 and not php5? look how long it took to get to php4 (with php5 just starting to rolling out) and people are already talking about php6? My observation was that more people jumped to PHP4 from PHP3 than have so far from PHP4 to PHP5. And PHP5 has hardly just started to roll out; the official 5.0.0 release was over a year ago. sure it is just a 'versioning' thing, but right now huge numbers of php users aren't using php5 (including me) on production environments, let alone start talking about php 6. And why aren't you using PHP5? Is there any specific reason? Is it because your service provider doesn't offer it? If so, ask them why -- and report it here. As soon as PHP5 hit stable, I started using it, and I've never looked back. Performance is better, and there are many features -- exceptions, the new OOP model, autoload, iterators, etc. -- that simply have no analogs in PHP4. anyway, i think i will be with php4 for a long time to come. Please tell the list why -- what does PHP4 offer over PHP5 for you? I honestly want to know, and I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see why people are not making the switch i spent hundreds of hours building my site on php4, im not about to rewrite any of it to make it 'compatible' with php5. maybe my impressions of php5 are wrong, but last i heard apps built on php4 may or may not work right under php5 - meaning you would have to rewrite code. am i wrong? so i am 'afraid' of going with php5 in fear it will break my website. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
