RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
[snip] With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. No matter what, you have to break something open to add code -- if nothing else, the script. [/snip] The base class would (should?) be contained in its own script space. For instance you might have the customer class in a file called class.customer.php. You do not have to open this script to add another class or extend this class, you would just add another file like class.customerCommercial.php that extends the customer class. Since autoload is available now (http://www.php.net/autoload) you would not even have to open the 'calling' script to add an include line. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On 10/15/07, Jay Blanchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. No matter what, you have to break something open to add code -- if nothing else, the script. [/snip] The base class would (should?) be contained in its own script space. For instance you might have the customer class in a file called class.customer.php. You do not have to open this script to add another class or extend this class, you would just add another file like class.customerCommercial.php that extends the customer class. Since autoload is available now (http://www.php.net/autoload) you would not even have to open the 'calling' script to add an include line. furthermore using a delegation technique like Stut demonstrated, you may not even need to edit a file to instantiate the class and call a method. -nathan
RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
At 5:42 AM -0500 10/15/07, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. No matter what, you have to break something open to add code -- if nothing else, the script. [/snip] The base class would (should?) be contained in its own script space. For instance you might have the customer class in a file called class.customer.php. You do not have to open this script to add another class or extend this class, you would just add another file like class.customerCommercial.php that extends the customer class. Since autoload is available now (http://www.php.net/autoload) you would not even have to open the 'calling' script to add an include line. I understand the class concept. But, I am not familiar with autoload. Stut also made mention of that, so I shall investigate post haste. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On 10/15/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand the class concept. But, I am not familiar with autoload. Stut also made mention of that, so I shall investigate post haste. __autoload is pretty tight; but if you dont want to have all your class files in the same directory, i suggest you implement something custom. ive seen several implementations where class names basically have filesystem paths embedded in them; ugh.. i think thats what those buxa project guys are doing, but im not certain. also, the __autoload() function has to be available for it to be called, which means you will have to include the file that defines it in every file that would use it. since my php code is heavily oop; i just use the php.ini auto_prepend_file directive. oh; btw, Tedd, autoload is for classes only; if you like what you see maybe that will be the excuse youve been looking for to get into oop w/ php :) -nathan
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On Monday 15 October 2007, Nathan Nobbe wrote: On 10/15/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand the class concept. But, I am not familiar with autoload. Stut also made mention of that, so I shall investigate post haste. __autoload is pretty tight; but if you dont want to have all your class files in the same directory, i suggest you implement something custom. ive seen several implementations where class names basically have filesystem paths embedded in them; ugh.. i think thats what those buxa project guys are doing, but im not certain. also, the __autoload() function has to be available for it to be called, which means you will have to include the file that defines it in every file that would use it. since my php code is heavily oop; i just use the php.ini auto_prepend_file directive. oh; btw, Tedd, autoload is for classes only; if you like what you see maybe that will be the excuse youve been looking for to get into oop w/ php :) -nathan __autoload() is also not recommended. :-) You can only have one per script. Instead, use spl_autoload_register(). That way you can stack multiple autoload routines cleanly. (At least that's what the php-internals folks were saying the last time the topic came up.) http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.spl-autoload-register.php -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On 10/15/07, Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 15 October 2007, Nathan Nobbe wrote: On 10/15/07, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand the class concept. But, I am not familiar with autoload. Stut also made mention of that, so I shall investigate post haste. __autoload is pretty tight; but if you dont want to have all your class files in the same directory, i suggest you implement something custom. ive seen several implementations where class names basically have filesystem paths embedded in them; ugh.. i think thats what those buxa project guys are doing, but im not certain. also, the __autoload() function has to be available for it to be called, which means you will have to include the file that defines it in every file that would use it. since my php code is heavily oop; i just use the php.ini auto_prepend_file directive. oh; btw, Tedd, autoload is for classes only; if you like what you see maybe that will be the excuse youve been looking for to get into oop w/ php :) -nathan __autoload() is also not recommended. :-) You can only have one per script. Instead, use spl_autoload_register(). That way you can stack multiple autoload routines cleanly. (At least that's what the php-internals folks were saying the last time the topic came up.) http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.spl-autoload-register.php neat; i didnt know about that, but i had checked out spl_autoload() before. ive defined a singleton that has a method for loading of classpaths. when __autoload is called, it delegates to the singleton to see if the classpath is valid. if theres a match it loads it, otherwise it chokes. i cant imagine having multiple __autoload methods, but perhaps if there was a third party lib that was also using autoload() theirs could be stacked on top of yours and that way they could both live together. i might give that a shot. -nathan
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
Jay Blanchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and you will have no problem maintaining your code. One correction. What is being described is procedural or imperative programming. Functional programming is another beast entirely (closures, first-class functions, immutable variables, etc.). PHP is not a functional language by any stretch of the imagination. For functional programming, see Erlang, Haskel, ML, LISP, and to a lesser extent Javascript. [/snip] Thanks for the correction Larry, I knew the difference and just brain farted. Thanks guys, I will try to test some of this stuff for my new project... could be fun from what I have seen so far. Cheers! Chris -- - My baby's first words will be Hello World -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On 10/12/07, Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 11 October 2007, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask: Why would I want to use classes in PHP? I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would love to know what makes the classes so special... Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o) [/snip] Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question. First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and you will have no problem maintaining your code. One correction. What is being described is procedural or imperative programming. Functional programming is another beast entirely (closures, first-class functions, immutable variables, etc.). PHP is not a functional language by any stretch of the imagination. For functional programming, see Erlang, Haskel, ML, LISP, and to a lesser extent Javascript. That's not a knock against PHP, mind you; I'm just pointing out that functional programming is something different than what you are describing. It's a common point of confusion because in a procedural language (traditional PHP, C, etc.) you do everything with functions, so it's functional. The difference is that a function is not a base data type, which is a key component of a functional language. an aspect that makes working with javascript rather interesting. i get my fill of it there and enjoy php for what it is; and because its more familiar to me ;) -nathan
Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
tedd wrote:
function customer($whatWas, $customertype, $whatAdditional)
{
/* do what was (i.e., common to all) */
/* then do what's additional unique to type */
switch(1)
{
case $customertype =='Commercial':
commercialCustomer($whatAdditional);
break;
.. and so on
}
function commercialCustomer($whatAdditional)
{
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
*/
}
function militaryCustomer($whatAdditional)
{
/*
*only code unique to military customers
*/
}
In either case, I still have to write more code to accommodate scaling.
And, if I have more customer types, then it's a simple matter to add
more customer functions and addition case statements to the initial
customer function. I don't see the benefit in using a class. At this
point, it just looks like a different way of doing things.
You can limit the need to add more code like so...
function customer($whatWas, $customertype, $whatAdditional)
{
/* do what was (i.e., common to all) */
/* then do what's additional unique to type */
$func = strtolower($customertype).'Customer';
$func($whatAdditional);
}
You could do (and I have done) something similar with classes.
For me the biggest benefit of using OOP is __autoload(). It makes life
so much easier.
-Stut
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Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On 10/12/07, Jay Blanchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt. (are you by chance continuing the other argument, re: interfaces?), but you have to break open the original tested function, add code to it, test it, etc. Every time you add a new case you have to break open the existing function to add that case. After a while, say if you need to drop a customer type you would have to (not really, you can leave it there and never exercise the case) break open the original code and delete the un-used code. Any way that you slice it the original customer function becomes more and more like spaghetti every day. Documentation for the function has to change each time as well. With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. Stut has demonstrated an example of delegation. when used with objects, inheritance is not necessary, but it can be used if desired. use your polymorphic mechanism of choice :) -nathan
RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
[snip] First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and you will have no problem maintaining your code. One correction. What is being described is procedural or imperative programming. Functional programming is another beast entirely (closures, first-class functions, immutable variables, etc.). PHP is not a functional language by any stretch of the imagination. For functional programming, see Erlang, Haskel, ML, LISP, and to a lesser extent Javascript. [/snip] Thanks for the correction Larry, I knew the difference and just brain farted. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
[snip] Yes, but I could do that procedurally from within the customer function by simply adding a customer type (needed regardless) and using a switch to direct and collect the additional data needed. In either case, I still have to write more code to accommodate scaling. And, if I have more customer types, then it's a simple matter to add more customer functions and addition case statements to the initial customer function. I don't see the benefit in using a class. At this point, it just looks like a different way of doing things. [/snip] No doubt. (are you by chance continuing the other argument, re: interfaces?), but you have to break open the original tested function, add code to it, test it, etc. Every time you add a new case you have to break open the existing function to add that case. After a while, say if you need to drop a customer type you would have to (not really, you can leave it there and never exercise the case) break open the original code and delete the un-used code. Any way that you slice it the original customer function becomes more and more like spaghetti every day. Documentation for the function has to change each time as well. With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
At 7:36 AM -0500 10/11/07, Jay Blanchard wrote:
[snip]
okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask:
Why would I want to use classes in PHP?
I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all
the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would
love to know what makes the classes so special...
Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o)
[/snip]
Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question.
First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional
programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and
may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites and
applications. Document well and you will have no problem maintaining
your code.
OOP (object oriented programming) is especially useful when the
application you have created needs to scale. A quick example; you
have sold your products to the consumer market for a long time but
now the commercial market has become interested. Commercial
customers are different than non-commercial customers, different
data, different credit requirements, different shipping, etc. but
they still have a lot in common, If you had a class Customer you
could extended that class to include commercial customers and only
have to code for the unique qualities of that kind of customer. Then
if another type of customer crops up, say a military contract, you
could extend again;
class Customer {
}
class CommercialCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
class MilitaryCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to military customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
Jay:
Yes, but I could do that procedurally from within the customer
function by simply adding a customer type (needed regardless) and
using a switch to direct and collect the additional data needed.
function customer($whatWas, $customertype, $whatAdditional)
{
/* do what was (i.e., common to all) */
/* then do what's additional unique to type */
switch(1)
{
case $customertype =='Commercial':
commercialCustomer($whatAdditional);
break;
.. and so on
}
function commercialCustomer($whatAdditional)
{
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
*/
}
function militaryCustomer($whatAdditional)
{
/*
*only code unique to military customers
*/
}
In either case, I still have to write more code to accommodate
scaling. And, if I have more customer types, then it's a simple
matter to add more customer functions and addition case statements to
the initial customer function. I don't see the benefit in using a
class. At this point, it just looks like a different way of doing
things.
Cheers,
tedd
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Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
At 2:44 PM +0100 10/12/07, Stut wrote:
You can limit the need to add more code like so...
function customer($whatWas, $customertype, $whatAdditional)
{
/* do what was (i.e., common to all) */
/* then do what's additional unique to type */
$func = strtolower($customertype).'Customer';
$func($whatAdditional);
}
That's something I haven't seen before (in this language) -- that's slick.
Thanks,
tedd
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RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
At 9:03 AM -0500 10/12/07, Jay Blanchard wrote: tedd said: In either case, I still have to write more code to accommodate scaling. And, if I have more customer types, then it's a simple matter to add more customer functions and addition case statements to the initial customer function. I don't see the benefit in using a class. At this point, it just looks like a different way of doing things. [/snip] No doubt. (are you by chance continuing the other argument, re: interfaces?) No, I didn't really understand the argument anyway. An interface to me currently is what the user uses to trigger my scripts. , but you have to break open the original tested function, add code to it, test it, etc. Every time you add a new case you have to break open the existing function to add that case. After a while, say if you need to drop a customer type you would have to (not really, you can leave it there and never exercise the case) break open the original code and delete the un-used code. Any way that you slice it the original customer function becomes more and more like spaghetti every day. Documentation for the function has to change each time as well. Every time you add more code, the documentation should change regardless. Every time you add more code, you have to test it anyway. Spaghetti is not caused by adding more code, but by poor design. With a class you can inherit all of the base class functionality into a new customer type. You do not have to break open the base class to add a case, you just have to create an extension class. Documentation is unique to each class. No matter what, you have to break something open to add code -- if nothing else, the script. I do see and understand the methodology afforded by OOP, but, I don't see an overwhelming reason to use it. Maybe in my next decade of programming I'll get with the program. After all, I don't keypunch anymore and that's progress. :-) Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Classes - Dumb question
Howdy fellas, okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask: Why would I want to use classes in PHP? I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would love to know what makes the classes so special... Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o) Cheerio, and thanks in advance for any answers. Chris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
[snip]
okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask:
Why would I want to use classes in PHP?
I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all
the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would
love to know what makes the classes so special...
Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o)
[/snip]
Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question.
First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming.
There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick
and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and
you will have no problem maintaining your code.
OOP (object oriented programming) is especially useful when the application you
have created needs to scale. A quick example; you have sold your products to
the consumer market for a long time but now the commercial market has become
interested. Commercial customers are different than non-commercial customers,
different data, different credit requirements, different shipping, etc. but
they still have a lot in common, If you had a class Customer you could extended
that class to include commercial customers and only have to code for the unique
qualities of that kind of customer. Then if another type of customer crops up,
say a military contract, you could extend again;
class Customer {
}
class CommercialCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
class MilitaryCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to military customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/object-oriented-php
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RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 07:36 -0500, Jay Blanchard wrote:
[snip]
okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask:
Why would I want to use classes in PHP?
I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all
the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would
love to know what makes the classes so special...
Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o)
[/snip]
Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question.
First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming.
There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick
and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and
you will have no problem maintaining your code.
OOP (object oriented programming) is especially useful when the application
you have created needs to scale. A quick example; you have sold your products
to the consumer market for a long time but now the commercial market has
become interested. Commercial customers are different than non-commercial
customers, different data, different credit requirements, different shipping,
etc. but they still have a lot in common, If you had a class Customer you
could extended that class to include commercial customers and only have to
code for the unique qualities of that kind of customer. Then if another type
of customer crops up, say a military contract, you could extend again;
class Customer {
}
class CommercialCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
class MilitaryCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to military customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/object-oriented-php
Another good reason is for function/data grouping. By using a class you
don't have to worry about name collisions for your functions, although
you can still have class name collisions. Also, data related to any
operations can be tracked via the object rather than cluttering the
global namespace between function calls.
Cheers,
Rob.
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Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On Oct 11, 2007, at 8:36 AM, Jay Blanchard wrote:
[snip]
okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask:
Why would I want to use classes in PHP?
I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal
functions all
the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now
I would
love to know what makes the classes so special...
Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o)
[/snip]
Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question.
First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional
programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and
may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites
and applications. Document well and you will have no problem
maintaining your code.
OOP (object oriented programming) is especially useful when the
application you have created needs to scale. A quick example; you
have sold your products to the consumer market for a long time but
now the commercial market has become interested. Commercial
customers are different than non-commercial customers, different
data, different credit requirements, different shipping, etc. but
they still have a lot in common, If you had a class Customer you
could extended that class to include commercial customers and only
have to code for the unique qualities of that kind of customer.
Then if another type of customer crops up, say a military contract,
you could extend again;
class Customer {
}
class CommercialCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to commercial customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
class MilitaryCustomer extends Customer {
/*
*only code unique to military customers
* inherits from Customer other variables
* and functions that are common
*/
}
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/object-oriented-php
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Not trying to hijack the thread... Hopefully this is related enough,
if not I apologize. Would a good use of a class be to write a generic
database connection script? and then feed in the different variables,
such as customer login, database, stuff like that?
something like class DBConnect {
// Connect to database
mysql_connect($server, $login, $password, $database);
}
or no?
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www.raoset.com
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RE: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
[snip]
Not trying to hijack the thread... Hopefully this is related enough,
if not I apologize. Would a good use of a class be to write a generic
database connection script? and then feed in the different variables,
such as customer login, database, stuff like that?
something like class DBConnect {
// Connect to database
mysql_connect($server, $login, $password, $database);
}
or no?
[/snip]
I don't think so because it is inefficient...wrapping an existing stand-alone
function is sort of redundant. If you were writing a database abstraction layer
that would be a horse of a different color.
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Re: [PHP] Classes - Dumb question
On Thursday 11 October 2007, Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] okay, this is really (!) embarassing, but I have to ask: Why would I want to use classes in PHP? I have been using PHP for years now and writing the normal functions all the time. I have never even bothered working with classes, but now I would love to know what makes the classes so special... Please go easy on me ;o) Just trying to make another step :o) [/snip] Do not be embarrassed, this is a very good question. First of all what you call normal is procedural or functional programming. There is nothing wrong with doing things this way and may be especially quick and efficient when doing basic web sites and applications. Document well and you will have no problem maintaining your code. One correction. What is being described is procedural or imperative programming. Functional programming is another beast entirely (closures, first-class functions, immutable variables, etc.). PHP is not a functional language by any stretch of the imagination. For functional programming, see Erlang, Haskel, ML, LISP, and to a lesser extent Javascript. That's not a knock against PHP, mind you; I'm just pointing out that functional programming is something different than what you are describing. It's a common point of confusion because in a procedural language (traditional PHP, C, etc.) you do everything with functions, so it's functional. The difference is that a function is not a base data type, which is a key component of a functional language. /semantic nitpick -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 6817012 If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. -- Thomas Jefferson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
