RE: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
-Original Message- From: bruce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 12:00 PM To: 'Robert Cummings'; 'Stut' Cc: 'Nathan Rixham'; php-general@lists.php.net Subject: RE: [PHP] while-question curious qiestion to all on here who dabble in php... how many of you have actully gone to college, taken algorithm courses, microprocessor courses, design/architecture courses, etc.. or is the majority of the work here from people who've grabbed the tools and started programming... ? Currently in college seeking a Computer Information Systems degree (Bachelor of Science). I will then continue into the Masters' program. I've taken courses on Database Systems, Decision Support Systems and Warehouse Management, Programming and Algorithms, Advanced Algorithms, Assembly Language (Motorola 68000), Operating Systems (Win32/POSIX), Systems Analysis, and Software Engineering (I'm sure I'm missing a couple from early college and high school... Pascal, VB, etc., but whatev). When I get my first degree, I will have added Artificial Intelligence, Systems Design, and Distributed Computing to that list. However--I have not been taught one lick of PHP in college. Then again, I think the language has very little to do with the program's power; it's mostly up to the programmer and his/her methods. Todd Boyd Web Programmer -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
who says PHP means programming? All I see is script code, unless you write your own extension or you contribute to php-internal -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
At 11:23 AM -0800 11/17/08, Yeti wrote: who says PHP means programming? Who says it doesn't? I can program with rocks -- and do a good job of it. I can make a one that can stand for a couple of thousand years. Show me code that can last longer. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 11:23 -0800, Yeti wrote: who says PHP means programming? All I see is script code, unless you write your own extension or you contribute to php-internal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_program Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
-Original Message- From: Yeti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:23 PM To: Boyd, Todd M.; PHP General Mailing List Subject: Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question) who says PHP means programming? All I see is script code, unless you write your own extension or you contribute to php-internal Well, now, you're just splitting hairs. Programming, scripting, coding--whatever you want to call it. They all involve similar methods. I made a program in VB.NET that takes a text file list of phone numbers and creates a geocoded XML tree by state, areacode, prefix, and finally extension. I compiled it into an executable. That was programming, yes? I then took that exact same code (the only part that changed was the output--it streams as an XML attachment instead of creating the output file on the local file system), and created an ASP.NET web site out of it. That wasn't programming? Todd Boyd Web Programmer -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
Ok, ok I admit it. PHP is a programming language. I guess I drank too much assembly code today. By the way ... Motorola 68000! Those were to good old days. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
On 17 Nov 2008, at 19:43, Yeti wrote: Ok, ok I admit it. PHP is a programming language. I guess I drank too much assembly code today. By the way ... Motorola 68000! Those were to good old days. And my penis is way bigger than yours, but I digress. Seriously tho, I define programming / coding / software development as writing instructions for a computer to follow. I don't care whether you do it in Perl, PHP, C, C++, Ruby, Python, COBOl or assembly, you're programming. If you feel that you need to demote people using certain languages to less than programmers then 1) don't ever expect a job from me, and 2) get over yourself and try living in the real world where the problem that matters more than the solution. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
At 8:20 PM + 11/17/08, Stut wrote: On 17 Nov 2008, at 19:43, Yeti wrote: Ok, ok I admit it. PHP is a programming language. I guess I drank too much assembly code today. Seriously tho, I define programming / coding / software development as writing instructions for a computer to follow. I don't care whether you do it in Perl, PHP, C, C++, Ruby, Python, COBOl or assembly, you're programming. If you feel that you need to demote people using certain languages to less than programmers then 1) don't ever expect a job from me, and 2) get over yourself and try living in the real world where the problem that matters more than the solution. -Stut And the computer does not have to be electronic nor the language written. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 20:20 +, Stut wrote: On 17 Nov 2008, at 19:43, Yeti wrote: Ok, ok I admit it. PHP is a programming language. I guess I drank too much assembly code today. By the way ... Motorola 68000! Those were to good old days. And my penis is way bigger than yours, but I digress. Seriously tho, I define programming / coding / software development as writing instructions for a computer to follow. I don't care whether you do it in Perl, PHP, C, C++, Ruby, Python, COBOl or assembly, you're programming. If you feel that you need to demote people using certain languages to less than programmers then 1) don't ever expect a job from me, and 2) get over yourself and try living in the real world where the problem that matters more than the solution. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ So just trolling here, but do conditional comments in HTML make it a programming language? :p Sorry, I couldn't resist. I deserve the wrath you lot bring down! ;) Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:30:34 -0500, tedd.sperling wrote: I can program with rocks -- and do a good job of it. I can make a one that can stand for a couple of thousand years. http://xkcd.com/505/ -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water; After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water - Wu Li -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
At 10:49 PM + 11/17/08, Ashley Sheridan wrote: So just trolling here, but do conditional comments in HTML make it a programming language? :p Why not? Sure, it's a mark-up language but if you don't program it right, it will screw up -- it's just more forgiving than most. Also, CSS is a programming language and it doesn't have any conditional branching other than browser hacks. If you think either of those two are not languages, then I think you're underestimating their power. I think the division between what is/isn't a computer language is somewhat blurred today as compared as to what it used to be. I remember we had the types who said that if you weren't programming on a mainframe, then you weren't programming. Others said if it's not compiled, then it's not a real application either. Both statement were equally lame. There has always been (probably always will be) those who want to separate people into different camps based upon their opinion -- but so what? Who cares? I don't. Over the years, I've had an assortment of clients who knew nothing about computer languages, but insisted on a specific language because of their limited understanding. I even had one client where I provided the end application that did everything he wanted, but he refused to consider it because if was written in a language that his friends thought too basic. Yes it was BASIC, but it worked better than the C++ crap that his programmers eventually developed two years later. My position -- give me a problem and get out of my way while I solve it. Some clients have problems with that and other don't. The ones that don't usually get a better product. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
At 11:40 AM +1100 11/18/08, Ross McKay wrote: On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:30:34 -0500, tedd.sperling wrote: I can program with rocks -- and do a good job of it. I can make a one that can stand for a couple of thousand years. http://xkcd.com/505/ Ross: That's super and fits. The only difference in the comic was the programmer was using zeros (absence of rock). That technical advancement came after I started programming. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Experience (was: while-question)
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:43:31 -0800, Yeti wrote: Ok, ok I admit it. PHP is a programming language. I guess I drank too much assembly code today. By the way ... Motorola 68000! Those were to good old days. 680x0 was the nicest machine I ever met - especially nice when writing for OS-9/68000. Yup, them was the daze... My perspective: scripting can be programming light (or lite, if you're illiterate and/or in marketing), but can just as easily be serious programming. This is especially so, now that many scripting languages support OO to some degree. Equally, I've seen some C code that I'd be somewhat reticent to call programming. Programming isn't all about stacks of procedural code either; consider declarative programming. (Yes, Ash, XHTML and CSS are effectively a form of declarative programming!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarative_programming The trick with languages is to: * pick the one (or more) appropriate for the task * pick the design approach appropriate to the language (and other tools) To be a decent web developer, with database-driven pages, one often has to manage a design that spans multiple languages and sometimes more than one programming paradigm. Consider a simple HTML input form sending information to a database: * (X)HTML for the page, including the input form * CSS for managing layout and styling, even active menus etc. * maybe some JavaScript for smart validation or field management * server-side programming for accepting the form post * maybe some database programming (SQL) for updating the database Compound that with some mostly-declarative XSLT, Flash, Java, .htaccess etc. and you've got a relatively complicated toolset that traditional programmers scratch their heads over when initially making the switch from their one-language development environment. (Frameworks strive to clean that up for developers) So, is PHP programming? :) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain - Wizard of Oz -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
