Re: [PHP] PHP includes
Virgilio Quilario wrote: I'm working on learning php and have been toying with includes, and I am trying to figure the advantages/disadvantages to using them. I know that using them eliminates the need to "put" the files once altered as with a template, however, is that the only advantage. My particular concerns are with SEO and if the search engines and the bots can read the page if it is made completely on includes? Any and all comments would be appreciated. hi Gary, It doesn't matter to SEO because search engines and the bots reads the output of your php scripts. whatever you see when you browse your page, same thing bots would see. Includes is a way to modularize your scripts instead of monolithic or repeated codes everywhere in your php file. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com everybody is correct, "include" = "server side include" - all happens on the server, client never knows -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP includes
> I'm working on learning php and have been toying with includes, and I am > trying to figure the advantages/disadvantages to using them. > > I know that using them eliminates the need to "put" the files once altered > as with a template, however, is that the only advantage. > > My particular concerns are with SEO and if the search engines and the bots > can read the page if it is made completely on includes? > > Any and all comments would be appreciated. > hi Gary, It doesn't matter to SEO because search engines and the bots reads the output of your php scripts. whatever you see when you browse your page, same thing bots would see. Includes is a way to modularize your scripts instead of monolithic or repeated codes everywhere in your php file. Virgil http://www.jampmark.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP includes
At 1:06 PM -0400 3/8/09, Gary wrote: I'm working on learning php and have been toying with includes, and I am trying to figure the advantages/disadvantages to using them. I know that using them eliminates the need to "put" the files once altered as with a template, however, is that the only advantage. My particular concerns are with SEO and if the search engines and the bots can read the page if it is made completely on includes? Any and all comments would be appreciated. Gary Gary: A demo might help: http://sperling.com/examples/include-demo/ As for SEO, includes neither help nor hurt. Includes deliver code as requested for both bot and human alike. They are completely transparent to whatever/whomever are requesting them. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP includes
Right. There are several advantages to using included files. You can write routines that you're going to use repeatedly and just include the file with the code, instead of re-inventing the wheel, as they say. Consistency is another advantage. So, if you design your header, sidebar and footer and just include them then you don't need to edit every stinking page on your site when you want to make a change. There's a handful of include-type statements. Include, include_one, require, require_once, etc. I'd read about those four before making a choice about which to use. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Gary wrote: > I'm working on learning php and have been toying with includes, and I am > trying to figure the advantages/disadvantages to using them. > > I know that using them eliminates the need to "put" the files once altered > as with a template, however, is that the only advantage. > > My particular concerns are with SEO and if the search engines and the bots > can read the page if it is made completely on includes? > > Any and all comments would be appreciated. > > Gary > > > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: [PHP] PHP includes
Gary wrote: I'm working on learning php and have been toying with includes, and I am trying to figure the advantages/disadvantages to using them. I know that using them eliminates the need to "put" the files once altered as with a template, however, is that the only advantage. My particular concerns are with SEO and if the search engines and the bots can read the page if it is made completely on includes? It really does not matter to search engines and bots. They see the output of your PHP scripts not the code. They won't know whether your PHP script used include. Just the way you see web pages with some content and not the PHP code that generated it. Any and all comments would be appreciated. Gary -- With warm regards, Sudheer. S Business: http://binaryvibes.co.in, Tech stuff: http://techchorus.net, Personal: http://sudheer.net -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] PHP Includes and Echoes in Head Sections and Search Engines
You are defining the vars after the header/title has already been processed, put it before the head.php, and it should work -Original Message- From: Freedomware [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] PHP Includes and Echoes in Head Sections and Search Engines I'm having a blast with PHP includes and echo functions; I never dreamed they could be so simple and effective. But I have a couple questions relating to head sections and search engines. Consider the following html code: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en" lang="en"> Welcome to ! * * * * * * * * * * And here's the html code from the include named head.php: Freedomware > versus Microsoft" /> * * * * * * * * * * I discovered that includes will apparently work just about anywhere, but echo functions apparently don't work with the tag and meta tags; at least, I can't see the word "Alaska" in those locations when I click View Source in my browser. So I wondered if there IS a way to make echo functions work in meta tags. Also, do you know if text derived from includes causes any problems with search engines? My guess is no, because I can see the included words just fine when I click View Source. Along similar lines, I wondered if there might be potential pitfalls if you import links to style sheets and javascripts as includes. Everything seems to work just fine so far. Thanks. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Includes and Echoes in Head Sections and Search Engines
From: "Freedomware" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I discovered that includes will apparently work just about anywhere, but > echo functions apparently don't work with the tag and meta tags; > at least, I can't see the word "Alaska" in those locations when I click > View Source in my browser. Look back over your code and you'll realize you set $statename _AFTER_ you include your file. So when the include file is "run", $statename doesn't have a value. :) > Also, do you know if text derived from includes causes any problems with > search engines? My guess is no, because I can see the included words > just fine when I click View Source. No, they won't. Search engines, just like browsers, only see the RESULT of your PHP code. So as long as the result is properly formatted HTML and META tags, you're fine. ---John Holmes... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Includes versus sloppy Dreamweaver code and split elements
Marek Kilimajer wrote: Sure you can, but I would not open a tag in one file, and close the tag in another. This makes code very unreadable, the errors are hard to find and also the code is not reusable. Hm That's a good point. Maybe I'll take another look at layers, as the table designs I've been working with don't really lend themselves to being chopped up between includes. Thanks for the tips. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Includes versus sloppy Dreamweaver code and split elements
Freedomware wrote: My first question is really trivial, but I noticed that Dreamweaver likes to display my PHP includes code like this... When I do a search and replace function, it often jumps onto another element's line, like this: I changed the code to this: and it seems to work just fine. But I just wondered if there's some potential problem or convention that I should be aware of. No, white space is ignored in both html and php. * * * * * * * * * * I also wondered if it's OK to include just a portion of another element, like a table or layer, in a PHP include, like this: First Row (The include would include the remainder of the table and div main's closing tag, ) Again, I tried it, and it seems to work just fine. I just wondered if there's something I should be warned about. Sure you can, but I would not open a tag in one file, and close the tag in another. This makes code very unreadable, the errors are hard to find and also the code is not reusable. Thanks! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP includes without access to the default directory
"Tom Rogers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hi,
>
> Friday, December 6, 2002, 11:06:36 AM, you wrote:
> G> I have a hosted account. As such, I am unable to use the default
location
> G> for files when used with the include command. So could somebody tell me
how
> G> I can either make it go to a different directory, or to link to
something
> G> (and how to add the variable as the filename)?
>
> G> Thank you in advance.
>
> If you still need access to the default include directory put this at the
top of
> each page:
>
> ini_set
("include_path","/path/to/local/includes:"ini_get("include_path"));
>
> Then no matter what directory you are in you can just include("filename");
>
> --
> regards,
> Tom
>
Thank you. This should work, but I have one question about the format of
that. this way I can make sure I do things right (getting a parse error
right now)
what did you mean by "include_path"?
/path/to/local/includes is just the path to the default includes folder?
and is include_path just the path to the includes folder that I use. And
with this, do I use the URL, or the file path (what I get whenever I get
errors)
and thank you again
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP includes without access to the default directory
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Gundamn wrote: > I have a hosted account. As such, I am unable to use the default location > for files when used with the include command. So could somebody tell me how > I can either make it go to a different directory, or to link to something > (and how to add the variable as the filename)? > > Thank you in advance. My usual approach is to have an includes/ directory, at the same level as the htdocs/ directory, and thus outside the webspace. In this includes/ directory I put an include.php file which includes any other files needed with include_once, like so: In htdocs/ I put another include.php, which basically says: In any subdirectories of htdocs/ I put a similar file, except one level deeper it'd be: For each subdir level, add a ../ to the define. On a hosted account, you may instead have to put your includes/ directory elsewhere. In this case, the include.php in htdocs/ would just be and the sub-directory scripts just Either way, the goal though is to have an include.php file in each directory of your webspace that references a single include.php file with relative (../) paths. Coupled with keeping your includes outside the webroot, this can make include files a lot less troublesome. A bit of overhead, true, but it keeps my configs, db passwords, and library code entirely out of the webspace. I've used it successfully in a large site (150 user-accessible scripts, 25 library scripts, totalling about 1M of php) One big warning about include files... PHP's include functions work counter-intuitively in that all relative paths are relative to the script that caught the user's request. Thus if you have a bunch of scripts in a lib/ directory, they can't include each other without taking into account the path from the calling script... Thus why I try to define INC_DIR as early as possible if it's relative. Hope this helps... -- Morgan Hughes C programmer and highly caffeinated mammal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 79293356 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
Template method clear_dynamic("loop2") I do not get the predicted
> result. The above situation is rather uncommon, and I work around it by
> including HTML code into the php page, and assigning the result to a
> fasttemplate variable. This special consideration works fine for the few
> pages that need the above nested loop, and the problem only appears if I
> need to clear() a nested loop, which is another rare thing. A good point
> though, but relatively rare in my experience. Even following my process for
> handling nested loops in php using fasttemplate, it is likely less
> complicated than attempting the same loop without fasttemplate.
>
> b) Extra Luggage
> Extra luggage, maybe, but would your prefer to stuff all your clothes into
> one suitcase, or organize them nicely into two? To further elaborate on the
> analogy, it sure would be a lot easier to travel with companion using two
> suitcases. Using a templating system, like FastTemplate, saves countless
> hours in a redesign, especially if all your doing is redesigning the HTML.
> The designers I work with are on the extreme end of the print design world,
> they need to see exactly what the page will look like. The fasttemplate
> {VARIABLES} have never been an issue.
>
> c) Implications of php4 output buffering control
> If you do not use CachedFastTemplate, then I would certainly look into using
> the buffered output for caching. Aside from cachinc, I have no further
> experience with output buffering.
>
> d) Dreaweaver library files/php includes
> This indeed will remain an awkward arrangement. Possible? Yes, of course,
> most things are, but awkward indeed.
>
> e) Making variable place holders more useful to designers
> This is a neat idea. If end up setting up php up pages to process the page,
> then echo variables, this sounds like a great idea.
>
> FINALLY)
> If you need up update the html pages from command line or basic text editor,
> you still can. Dreamweaver's library items remain consist across all of the
> applied pages, I just do a find on all open documents with EditPad, and the
> site is updated the same way Dreamweaver would have updated the pages.
>
> Robert V. Zwink
> http://www.zwink.net/daid.php
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of George Whiffen
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1:20 PM
> To: Robert V. Zwink
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
>
> Robert,
>
> Your time and trouble in going through the issues are much appreciated, and
> I'm starting to warm to the idea of FastTemplate. It seems DYNAMIC BLOCK is
> the answer
> to the itty bitty little html file problem, but I'm still not entirely
> happy..
>
> a) Nested Loops
> I notice the warnings about unpredictable results with nested DYNAMIC
> BLOCKs.
> Does that mean I can't have two levels of detail e.g. a list
> of invoices and their detail lines (if any) on the same page?
>
> b) Extra Luggage
> I have a strong preference for using as few tools as possible. This is why
> I like php so much and why I don't like Perl. With php 99% of the
> functionality
> is built-in to the the core and you don't have to worry about picking up
> extra utilities. I can't see the case for FastTemplate is overwhelming,
> given
> that php is ALREADY a templating language. Apart from an extra level of
> indirection that allows for cleaner tags in the html, I can't see that it
> adds
> that much. On the other hand it's clearly less powerful than "raw" php.
>
> c) Implications of php4 output buffering control
> I wonder if the new facilities for processing output buffers in php4 have
> an impact on the best approach for templating. Now that you have full
> control
> over the php output buffer, doesn't that reduce the importance of templating
> systems such as FastTemplate whichpre-process output before it gets to
> php's output buffer? I have the feeling that if you were/are designing
> a templating system from scratch for php4, you could get a lot more
> functionality
> for less work now e.g. it would be easy to allow full embedding of php, by
> just
> carrying out the template parse after the first round of php processing
> rather
> than before.
>
> d) Dreaweaver library files/php includes
> Having tried the .lbi/php include trick i.e. use Dreamweaver library files
> as server includes, it does work, but not brilliantly. Funnily enough, my
> main problem was that Dreamweaver insists on library items consisting of
> complete "blocks" so my header and footer each had to split in two to
&g
RE: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
George Whiffen,
a) Nested Loops
One problem that I see is that if I have nested loops:
{LOOP1_VARIABLE}
{LOOP2_VARIABLE}
I can assign values and get the predicted result, but if I try to use the
fastTemplate method clear_dynamic("loop2") I do not get the predicted
result. The above situation is rather uncommon, and I work around it by
including HTML code into the php page, and assigning the result to a
fasttemplate variable. This special consideration works fine for the few
pages that need the above nested loop, and the problem only appears if I
need to clear() a nested loop, which is another rare thing. A good point
though, but relatively rare in my experience. Even following my process for
handling nested loops in php using fasttemplate, it is likely less
complicated than attempting the same loop without fasttemplate.
b) Extra Luggage
Extra luggage, maybe, but would your prefer to stuff all your clothes into
one suitcase, or organize them nicely into two? To further elaborate on the
analogy, it sure would be a lot easier to travel with companion using two
suitcases. Using a templating system, like FastTemplate, saves countless
hours in a redesign, especially if all your doing is redesigning the HTML.
The designers I work with are on the extreme end of the print design world,
they need to see exactly what the page will look like. The fasttemplate
{VARIABLES} have never been an issue.
c) Implications of php4 output buffering control
If you do not use CachedFastTemplate, then I would certainly look into using
the buffered output for caching. Aside from cachinc, I have no further
experience with output buffering.
d) Dreaweaver library files/php includes
This indeed will remain an awkward arrangement. Possible? Yes, of course,
most things are, but awkward indeed.
e) Making variable place holders more useful to designers
This is a neat idea. If end up setting up php up pages to process the page,
then echo variables, this sounds like a great idea.
FINALLY)
If you need up update the html pages from command line or basic text editor,
you still can. Dreamweaver's library items remain consist across all of the
applied pages, I just do a find on all open documents with EditPad, and the
site is updated the same way Dreamweaver would have updated the pages.
Robert V. Zwink
http://www.zwink.net/daid.php
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of George Whiffen
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 1:20 PM
To: Robert V. Zwink
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
Robert,
Your time and trouble in going through the issues are much appreciated, and
I'm starting to warm to the idea of FastTemplate. It seems DYNAMIC BLOCK is
the answer
to the itty bitty little html file problem, but I'm still not entirely
happy..
a) Nested Loops
I notice the warnings about unpredictable results with nested DYNAMIC
BLOCKs.
Does that mean I can't have two levels of detail e.g. a list
of invoices and their detail lines (if any) on the same page?
b) Extra Luggage
I have a strong preference for using as few tools as possible. This is why
I like php so much and why I don't like Perl. With php 99% of the
functionality
is built-in to the the core and you don't have to worry about picking up
extra utilities. I can't see the case for FastTemplate is overwhelming,
given
that php is ALREADY a templating language. Apart from an extra level of
indirection that allows for cleaner tags in the html, I can't see that it
adds
that much. On the other hand it's clearly less powerful than "raw" php.
c) Implications of php4 output buffering control
I wonder if the new facilities for processing output buffers in php4 have
an impact on the best approach for templating. Now that you have full
control
over the php output buffer, doesn't that reduce the importance of templating
systems such as FastTemplate whichpre-process output before it gets to
php's output buffer? I have the feeling that if you were/are designing
a templating system from scratch for php4, you could get a lot more
functionality
for less work now e.g. it would be easy to allow full embedding of php, by
just
carrying out the template parse after the first round of php processing
rather
than before.
d) Dreaweaver library files/php includes
Having tried the .lbi/php include trick i.e. use Dreamweaver library files
as server includes, it does work, but not brilliantly. Funnily enough, my
main problem was that Dreamweaver insists on library items consisting of
complete "blocks" so my header and footer each had to split in two to
draw out the side columns from the top and bottom sections.
e) Making variable place holders more useful to designers
The other unpleasantness I found with Dreamweaver is that "php" tags don't
look
so nice as variable names
Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
is scenario probably is better demonstrated than explained. Regardless it
> works well for us, and has proven advantageous.
>
> Here is an example of a template:
> http://www.powerspec.com/support/support_archive.html?selection=4611
>
> Here is an example of the parsed output, notice the file names?
> http://www.powerspec.com/support/support_archive.phtml?selection=4611
>
> View the source and you will see where Dreamweaver keeps notes of where
> library items should go.
>
> >>The
> >>problem seems to be to make sure they don't show up in the saved
> >>Dreamweaver html file as well as it's saved library item.
>
> The "problem" you describe is really a feature, if used properly this
> feature can pretty handy. I don't believe that Dreamweaver's "Library
> items" are meant to be directly included into php pages. You are supposed
> to allow Dreamweaver to update all the pages affected by the library item
> after you make a change to the library item. Its one of the reasons to use
> Dreamweaver. Its seems possible to write a regex to remove the library item
> and replace with a php include(), but this is really what FastTemplate was
> made to do in the first place, so you've reinvented the wheel.
>
> Also another reason to consider Template (IMHO) are the programmers who
> support them, Sascha Schumann wrote the article I referred you to, Andrei
> Zmievski wrote Smarty (another templating system for php). phplib contains
> a templating system, and I'm sure there are countless others. Templates
> seem to be adopted by experieced programmers more often than not. I haven't
> even mentioned the advantages of CachedFastTemplate which is reason alone to
> use templates.
>
> If you decide to try it out, I'm happy to relay my experiences.
>
> Robert V. Zwink
> http://www.zwink.net/daid.php
>
> -Original Message-
> From: George Whiffen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Robert V. Zwink
> Subject: Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
>
> Robert,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions, but...
>
> a) I do want to do this and I do think I can.
>
> The big problem is not the templating, php is pretty damn good at that
> already.
> It's handling the header/footer html which appears on every page.
> On the one hand we only want one master copy so there's only one
> thing to fix if it's wrong, on the other hand we want the designer's
> tools (Dreamweaver in this case), to show the page they're designing
> with those headers/footers included while they work locally on their server.
> I still think this can be done with Dreamweaver's library items. They seem
> to be
> held as separate files with little snippets of html, just as we'd
> hold them on the server, so with a little discipline or fancy ftp
> synchronisation we can make sure they are up to date. The problem seems
> to be to make sure they don't show up in the saved Dreamweaver html file as
> well
> as it's saved library item.
>
> b) I looked at FastTemplate and I'm pretty sure I don't want
> to use it.
>
> The main difference from a pure php approache seems to be that instead
> of embedding real live php in the template (and then hiding it
> from the designers), instead you embed your own invented tags that
> you then separately translate into the results of some php via tpl
> methods.
>
> The disadvantage is that you seem to have to create lots
> of itty bitty little .tpl files for every part of the page which
> is either repeated or conditional and bunches of other structure
> which doesn't do anything to help productivity or maintainability.
> I would much rather include the looping/conditional php in the template
> itself,
> safely tucked away in a php tag e.g. (using the FastTemplate example)
>
> mytemplate.html
>
>
>
> HALLO
> // Start looping through files
>while($filename = readdir($handle))
>{
>$filesize = filesize($filename);
> ?>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> // End of loop through files
>}
> ?>
>
>
>
> etc.
>
> myphpprogram
> Then the master php just has :
>
> //standard stuff
>
> $handle = opendir(...);
>
> //error checking
>
> include(mytemplate.html)
>
> close($handle);
>
> The template can then include any number of loops and conditionals all in
> the
> same full previewable/editable html page. It's not going to be a perfect
> copy of the final page i.e. each re
RE: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
George,
You do not need to have multiple tiny template files. We create a website
in Dreamweaver using builtin "library items". This website has many pages,
sharing the same header and footer library item. Within the html page we
use only two template constructs:
{VARIABLE_NAME}
and:
that's it. Nothing more. Our naming convention consists of "filename.html"
contains formatting and {VARIABLES}, "filename.phtml" contains template code
to suck-in the template, replace the {VARIABLES} with information, and spit
it back out.
If we need to update all the headers or footers, we update the header or
footer "library item" in Dreamweaver, and all the corresponding pages are
updated. The header and footer file may be single files somewhere, but
regardless dreamweaver updates every file that needs to be updated and the
site reflects the changes.
We have worked on a broad range of sites, and I have worked on quite a few
independently without dreamweaver, and this seems like the most efficient
setup for designers that are familiar using Dreamweaver. I personally don't
care for Dreamweaver, but if I am designing a site on my own, I still use
FastTemplate. The only difference is that using FastTemplate without
Dreamweaver benefits from a separate header and footer HTML file.
This scenario probably is better demonstrated than explained. Regardless it
works well for us, and has proven advantageous.
Here is an example of a template:
http://www.powerspec.com/support/support_archive.html?selection=4611
Here is an example of the parsed output, notice the file names?
http://www.powerspec.com/support/support_archive.phtml?selection=4611
View the source and you will see where Dreamweaver keeps notes of where
library items should go.
>>The
>>problem seems to be to make sure they don't show up in the saved
>>Dreamweaver html file as well as it's saved library item.
The "problem" you describe is really a feature, if used properly this
feature can pretty handy. I don't believe that Dreamweaver's "Library
items" are meant to be directly included into php pages. You are supposed
to allow Dreamweaver to update all the pages affected by the library item
after you make a change to the library item. Its one of the reasons to use
Dreamweaver. Its seems possible to write a regex to remove the library item
and replace with a php include(), but this is really what FastTemplate was
made to do in the first place, so you've reinvented the wheel.
Also another reason to consider Template (IMHO) are the programmers who
support them, Sascha Schumann wrote the article I referred you to, Andrei
Zmievski wrote Smarty (another templating system for php). phplib contains
a templating system, and I'm sure there are countless others. Templates
seem to be adopted by experieced programmers more often than not. I haven't
even mentioned the advantages of CachedFastTemplate which is reason alone to
use templates.
If you decide to try it out, I'm happy to relay my experiences.
Robert V. Zwink
http://www.zwink.net/daid.php
-Original Message-
From: George Whiffen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 2:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Robert V. Zwink
Subject: Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
Robert,
Thanks for the suggestions, but...
a) I do want to do this and I do think I can.
The big problem is not the templating, php is pretty damn good at that
already.
It's handling the header/footer html which appears on every page.
On the one hand we only want one master copy so there's only one
thing to fix if it's wrong, on the other hand we want the designer's
tools (Dreamweaver in this case), to show the page they're designing
with those headers/footers included while they work locally on their server.
I still think this can be done with Dreamweaver's library items. They seem
to be
held as separate files with little snippets of html, just as we'd
hold them on the server, so with a little discipline or fancy ftp
synchronisation we can make sure they are up to date. The problem seems
to be to make sure they don't show up in the saved Dreamweaver html file as
well
as it's saved library item.
b) I looked at FastTemplate and I'm pretty sure I don't want
to use it.
The main difference from a pure php approache seems to be that instead
of embedding real live php in the template (and then hiding it
from the designers), instead you embed your own invented tags that
you then separately translate into the results of some php via tpl
methods.
The disadvantage is that you seem to have to create lots
of itty bitty little .tpl files for every part of the page which
is either repeated or conditional and bunches of other structure
which doesn't do anything to help productivity or maintain
Re: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
Robert, Thanks for the suggestions, but... a) I do want to do this and I do think I can. The big problem is not the templating, php is pretty damn good at that already. It's handling the header/footer html which appears on every page. On the one hand we only want one master copy so there's only one thing to fix if it's wrong, on the other hand we want the designer's tools (Dreamweaver in this case), to show the page they're designing with those headers/footers included while they work locally on their server. I still think this can be done with Dreamweaver's library items. They seem to be held as separate files with little snippets of html, just as we'd hold them on the server, so with a little discipline or fancy ftp synchronisation we can make sure they are up to date. The problem seems to be to make sure they don't show up in the saved Dreamweaver html file as well as it's saved library item. b) I looked at FastTemplate and I'm pretty sure I don't want to use it. The main difference from a pure php approache seems to be that instead of embedding real live php in the template (and then hiding it from the designers), instead you embed your own invented tags that you then separately translate into the results of some php via tpl methods. The disadvantage is that you seem to have to create lots of itty bitty little .tpl files for every part of the page which is either repeated or conditional and bunches of other structure which doesn't do anything to help productivity or maintainability. I would much rather include the looping/conditional php in the template itself, safely tucked away in a php tag e.g. (using the FastTemplate example) mytemplate.html HALLO etc. myphpprogram Then the master php just has : //standard stuff $handle = opendir(...); //error checking include(mytemplate.html) close($handle); The template can then include any number of loops and conditionals all in the same full previewable/editable html page. It's not going to be a perfect copy of the final page i.e. each repeating section only appears once and conditionals always appear, but that's impossible anyway until you actually execute the page on the server. But compared to the FastTemplate approach this is less code, less files, less things to go wrong, same amount of coordination with the designers, more educative for the designers (some might even get curious and look at the php!), and it does mean the designers get a whole page to work on/preview. I guess FastTemplate may improve reusability of the html formats by splitting the html into separate chunks. That might matter for system admin/software engineering type applications where you might list the same kind of data in the same format more than once. But in my world of database applications that almost never happens! You just don't show the same data in the same format in more than one place or on more than one page. If you do, it's usually an indicator that you've failed to structure your web pages properly i.e. you should be reusing the page, not just bits of it. Robert V. Zwink wrote: > > I dont' think you can do this, or that you would want to do this. Library > items in Dreamweaver (as I understand it) are snippets of HTML that > Dreamweaver marks as updatable accross the entire site. They are not > "included" into the HTML, dreamweaver keeps track of where they need to go, > then updates the entire HTML page. The html page does not "include" the > library item, Dreamweaver handles updating the pages the library item > applies. > > If you want to make your life easier familiarize the php developer(s) with > FastTemplate. Check out: > http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/sascha19990316.php3 > for more information. > > I hope this helps. > > Robert Zwink > http://www.zwink.net/daid.php > > -Original Message- > From: George Whiffen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:40 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items > > Hi, > > Has anyone experience of using Dreamweaver library item files (.lbi)s as > php includes? > > We've got a standard header and footer to go across all pages on a site with > the navigation etc. We want both the designers, (using Dreamweaver), and > the > php programmers to have access to these includes, so that the Dreamweavers > can > view the pages automatically with the headers/footers shown, and the > programmers > can still maintain the pages and includes without Dreamweaver. > > I don't fully understand how Dreamweaver library files work, so I guess my > questions are : > > a) Can you use a url for a Dreamweaver libary file rather than using a local > file > so we can all share a single master copy? > > b) Can we tell Dreamweaver to include the libary file's html when previewing > but > exclude it when saving, so we don't end up with the libra
RE: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items
I dont' think you can do this, or that you would want to do this. Library items in Dreamweaver (as I understand it) are snippets of HTML that Dreamweaver marks as updatable accross the entire site. They are not "included" into the HTML, dreamweaver keeps track of where they need to go, then updates the entire HTML page. The html page does not "include" the library item, Dreamweaver handles updating the pages the library item applies. If you want to make your life easier familiarize the php developer(s) with FastTemplate. Check out: http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/sascha19990316.php3 for more information. I hope this helps. Robert Zwink http://www.zwink.net/daid.php -Original Message- From: George Whiffen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 10:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] php includes === Dreamweaver library items Hi, Has anyone experience of using Dreamweaver library item files (.lbi)s as php includes? We've got a standard header and footer to go across all pages on a site with the navigation etc. We want both the designers, (using Dreamweaver), and the php programmers to have access to these includes, so that the Dreamweavers can view the pages automatically with the headers/footers shown, and the programmers can still maintain the pages and includes without Dreamweaver. I don't fully understand how Dreamweaver library files work, so I guess my questions are : a) Can you use a url for a Dreamweaver libary file rather than using a local file so we can all share a single master copy? b) Can we tell Dreamweaver to include the libary file's html when previewing but exclude it when saving, so we don't end up with the library code twice, once embedded by Dreamweaver on the save and once included by php at execution? (I insist on the live page using the master version as I'm not prepared to trust the Dreamweavers to rebuild the pages when the library files change!) I guess I've got workarounds if the answers to these prove negative. For a) I can bully the Dreamweavers into keeping the master/local copies in step, and for b) I guess I can get the php to strip out the Dreamweaver copy of the library code at execution with a little bit of spoofing of Dreamweaver about where php starts and ends i.e. something like dreamweaver library item tags and text where turn_into_an_include is a function which just finds the library file name in the passed string of library code and includes it from the appropriate server directory. Of course, this is a bit clumsy, any better suggestions? Many thanks, George ?> c) In the worst case I guess, we can live with local and master copies of library files and remind the Dreamweavers to always update the master when they make changes get the php code to strip out the embedded library file html at execution time and replace it with an appropriate include statement of the server copy. I've got an idea how to do this by as anyone else tried this? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
