Re: Hello from the bakery

[r cs]

Yes, checking out from the
language-churn-that-adds-no-significant-value-for-me is a big win, because
picolisp is already a mature, people-like-you-proven language.  It also
does spectacularly well on the resource-usage/performance curve, with
multiple implementations to choose from.  It also uses a license that lets
me get my work done wherever I'm at.

My thanks and hats off to Alex for sharing his brilliant work, and the
community he has fostered that surrounds it!

Regards,
rcs

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 9:17 AM Abraham Palmer 
wrote:

> I don't know if people do introductions here, but I just wanted to say Hi

Unsubscribe

[Simon Saville]

Re: building on macos

[l@tlo]

> On Aug 14, 2023, at 15:15, l@tlo  wrote:
> 
> One year later...
> 
> (I don't even remember sending that older mail... 😅)
> 
> 
> Building on macOS (13) seems to work fine with the following instructions:
> 
> https://picolisp.com/wiki/?alternativeMacOSRepository

I just noticed the reply by Louis Abraham:

https://picolisp.com/wiki/-A725.html

For readability it might be better to merge the two documents into one: the 
brew style and the macport style.

Louis, you seem to mean that your version works with M1 machines. Have you 
tried it on Intel machines?

JC

> 
> *and*
> 
> Mike's Makefile here:
> 
> https://git.envs.net/mpech/pil21-tests/raw/branch/master/Makefile.macos
> 
> 
> One question to Mike:
> 
> Would it be possible that you merge your makefile with Alex's most recent and 
> add conditionals to check whether the system is macOS?
> 
> That way, we would not need any special instructions to build on macOS :)
> 
> 
> If not, I'll update the instructions and will add a link to your Makefile.
> 
> 
> And then, Mia's blog article could be updated to reflect the current status :)
> 
> https://picolisp-explored.com/how-to-install-picolisp
> 
> 
> Jean-Christophe
> 
>> On May 30, 2022, at 13:39, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2022, at 18:18, Alexander Burger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jean-Christophe,
>>> 
 It looks like I'm slowly getting somewhere...
 ...
>>> 
>>> Great! :)
>>> 
>>> 
 ./pil: line 2: exec: 
 /Users/suzume/Documents/Repositories/pil21+/src/../bin/picolisp: cannot 
 execute: No such file or directory
>>> 
>>> That's an easy one. It tries to bootstrap, but bin/picolisp does not exist 
>>> yet.
>>> For that reason the pre-build *.ll files are included in the distro. Just
>>> (re)install these.
>> 
>> Yes, but now, I'm back to my readline errors...
>> 
>> ➜  pil21+ git:(master) ✗ (cd src; make)
>> clang -O3 -w -c -o lib.bc -D_OS='"Darwin"' -D_CPU='"x86_64"' `pkg-config 
>> --cflags libffi` -emit-llvm lib.c
>> lib.c:119:4: error: use of undeclared identifier 'rl_catch_signals'
>>  rl_catch_signals = 0;
>>  ^
>> lib.c:121:4: error: use of undeclared identifier 'rl_input_available_hook'
>>  rl_input_available_hook = rlAvail;
>>  ^
>> 
>> (etc.)
>> 
>> I'm using this in .profile:
>> 
>> ## libffi
>> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/opt/libffi/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH"
>> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/libffi/lib:$LDFLAGS"
>> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/libffi/include:$CPPFLAGS"
>> 
>> ## openssl
>> export PATH="/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/bin:$PATH"
>> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/lib:$LDFLAGS"
>> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/include:$CPPFLAGS"
>> 
>> ## readline
>> export 
>> PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH"
>> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/readline/lib:$LDFLAGS"
>> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/readline/include:$CPPFLAGS"
>> 
>> ## llvm
>> export PATH="/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/bin:$PATH"
>> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/lib:$LDFLAGS"
>> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/include:$CPPFLAGS"
>> 
>> JC :(
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
>> https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
>> https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Christophe Helary @jchel...@emacs.ch
> https://traductaire-libre.org
> https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
> https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/
> 
> 
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @jchel...@emacs.ch
https://traductaire-libre.org
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/


--
UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

Re: building on macos

[l@tlo]

One year later...

(I don't even remember sending that older mail... 😅)


Building on macOS (13) seems to work fine with the following instructions:

https://picolisp.com/wiki/?alternativeMacOSRepository

*and*

Mike's Makefile here:

https://git.envs.net/mpech/pil21-tests/raw/branch/master/Makefile.macos


One question to Mike:

Would it be possible that you merge your makefile with Alex's most recent and 
add conditionals to check whether the system is macOS?

That way, we would not need any special instructions to build on macOS :)


If not, I'll update the instructions and will add a link to your Makefile.


And then, Mia's blog article could be updated to reflect the current status :)

https://picolisp-explored.com/how-to-install-picolisp


Jean-Christophe

> On May 30, 2022, at 13:39, Jean-Christophe Helary 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 30, 2022, at 18:18, Alexander Burger  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jean-Christophe,
>> 
>>> It looks like I'm slowly getting somewhere...
>>> ...
>> 
>> Great! :)
>> 
>> 
>>> ./pil: line 2: exec: 
>>> /Users/suzume/Documents/Repositories/pil21+/src/../bin/picolisp: cannot 
>>> execute: No such file or directory
>> 
>> That's an easy one. It tries to bootstrap, but bin/picolisp does not exist 
>> yet.
>> For that reason the pre-build *.ll files are included in the distro. Just
>> (re)install these.
> 
> Yes, but now, I'm back to my readline errors...
> 
> ➜  pil21+ git:(master) ✗ (cd src; make)
> clang -O3 -w -c -o lib.bc -D_OS='"Darwin"' -D_CPU='"x86_64"' `pkg-config 
> --cflags libffi` -emit-llvm lib.c
> lib.c:119:4: error: use of undeclared identifier 'rl_catch_signals'
>   rl_catch_signals = 0;
>   ^
> lib.c:121:4: error: use of undeclared identifier 'rl_input_available_hook'
>   rl_input_available_hook = rlAvail;
>   ^
> 
> (etc.)
> 
> I'm using this in .profile:
> 
> ## libffi
> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/opt/libffi/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH"
> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/libffi/lib:$LDFLAGS"
> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/libffi/include:$CPPFLAGS"
> 
> ## openssl
> export PATH="/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/bin:$PATH"
> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/lib:$LDFLAGS"
> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/openssl@3/include:$CPPFLAGS"
> 
> ## readline
> export 
> PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/opt/readline/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH"
> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/readline/lib:$LDFLAGS"
> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/readline/include:$CPPFLAGS"
> 
> ## llvm
> export PATH="/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/bin:$PATH"
> export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/lib:$LDFLAGS"
> export CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/local/opt/llvm@11/include:$CPPFLAGS"
> 
> JC :(
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
> https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
> https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/
> 
> 
> --
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @jchel...@emacs.ch
https://traductaire-libre.org
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/


--
UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

Hello from the bakery

[Abraham Palmer]

I don't know if people do introductions here, but I just wanted to say Hi.
I'm really a bread baker  but used to do IT
professionally and enjoy exploring ideas. I had written an application for
my bakery in Python running against Google's Datastore database. My
requirements change very little, but keeping up with the churn of
everything in that stack is very annoying. I tried Pharo and enjoyed the
Smalltalk development experience, but the churn of research languages is
just as bad with things breaking pretty much every year. I wanted to
explore functional and statically typed languages and tried Elm. It is very
nice, but one is still very much embedded in the browser and JavaScript
ecosystem and the churn of running things there is too much for me. Unison
is an interesting new language, but it is built on Haskell which is a very
research-oriented language and also still in active development. I also
thought that a peer-to-peer solution like Holochain would get me away from
the cloud providers, but I think things are just not ready yet. I also
don't want to pay for expensive hardware and full builds on Rust for the
Holochain apps didn't work on my 10-year-old laptop and took over an hour
on my newer desktop. I have an application to manage EV chargers running in
Factor (a Forth inspired language) and like it overall, but PicoLisp is
easier to build from scratch and has a much smaller runtime.
Similarly Clojure is a nice Lisp relative, but brings along the whole JVM
which doesn't add anything useful for me. I tried Guile Scheme and Janet
too and thought PicoLisp was simpler with better functionality for it's own
database, debugging, prolog functionality, and web-based applications. I
hope that that web approach of just using the browser for just the UI will
keep things working on old and changing browsers without all the testing,
polyfilling, etc.

My knowledge management is currently on logseq so I'd like to get that into
some form of PicoLisp so that I can have something of a literate
development environment. I don't want to go to emacs and org-mode so
something simpler. Then I'd want to do a couple of database apps with web
front-ends in addition to redoing my bakery application while extending it
with accounting using the Resource Event Agent model.

Thanks for the useful language and helpful documentation.
--Abraham Palmer

Subscribe

[Romain Ramanantsiarovana]