Re: picoWiki
Hi Konrad, I think Picowiki could use a title index. As somthing that is automatically generated there has been a page called All but the link was down at the bottom. I moved it to the top menu now. Thank you, Tomas -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
picoWiki
Hi all, I think I have said this before, but I will repeat it. In my experience, a Wiki is only truly successful if there are very clear rules, styles, and usually someone with a heavy hand to enforce that. I think that the original author of picolisp may be concerned that he gives up the documentation, and is left in one or two years with a mess. This is probably not the case, but I can certainly understand the concern. A simple solution would be, just duplicate the documentation in the Wiki, make it better and better and make sure it is well supported. Sorry, ad hoc doesn't work, I believe. Python doc, for instance, is very well and tightly controlled. And the control takes more time and effort than just maintaining what exists. So I don't expect Alex to jump in and manage and control a Wiki. Randall Tomas Hlavaty wrote: Hi Konrad, Well thats two improvements to the documentation. Perhaps a perfect candidate for the Wiki? Hmm. var - Variable: Either a symbol or a cell (set 'var 'any ..) - any Stores new values any in the var arguments. See also setq, val and def. Even taken in concert these two snippets don't actually explain what will happen if var is a cell. It may be obvious (if you already know) that if var is a cell than action will be taken on the car part. However it does not actually say so. I note that the definition of con does say so even though its signature has the more specific data type of Lst. The best a very careful first time reader could pick up is that the behavior is not explicitly spelled out. They could then, guess, experiment or ask. I would say that there are some functions where additional verbosity is warranted. the function for assigning values is one such place. Especially when the acutal behaviour may not be what people with Lisp experience expect. While succinctness is good in documentation, it is possible to have too much of a good thing. nothing is perfect but rather than arguing with Alex about quality of his documentation, would not it be easier and more useful to take action and put it in the picoWiki? I think everybody would appreciate your knowledge and it would be preserved for newcomers too. It would at least make it easier for Alex not to spend his lifetime maintaining his documentation to everybody's tastes and focus on his clients, writing code and having fun instead;-) There are many different Lisp dialects so people's expectations could vary depending on their background. A wiki page for people comming from Common Lisp background, for example, would be great! Cheers, Tomas -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Hi Randall, I think that the original author of picolisp may be concerned that he gives up the documentation, and is left in one or two years with a mess. No problem at all! I'm happy for any third party documentation, providing for possibly different and additional views (as, for example, Henrik's publications on prodevtips). Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Hi,
After some consideration I agree that supplementing the core docs is
better then replacing them.
If I could make a feature suggestion. It would be handy if there was a
shortcut syntax for linking to the definition of terms in the core
documentation (much as the lisp tag currently does). so that we
didn't have to type the entire address every time. possibly {ref set}
to refer to the refS.html#set in the core documentation.
regards
Konrad.
2008/10/14 Tomas Hlavaty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi Randall,
In my experience, a Wiki is only truly successful if there are very
clear rules, styles, and usually someone with a heavy hand to
enforce that.
Would you have any suggestions what those rules and styles should be?
A simple solution would be, just duplicate the documentation in the
I am not sure whether it is a good idea completely replacing the
documentation Alex created and maintains. Alex will probably not give
that up anyway? However, the existing documentation is a good start,
e.g. http://logand.com/picoWiki/classes then can be filled with
comments, examples, observations, ideas etc. like I started with
http://logand.com/picoWiki/+Blob
It would be good to address things that are not covered by his
documentation, are out of scope for the core picolisp package, link to
other people's blogs or software or elaborate where we feel more
information is necessary for people not enough familiar with picolisp
(like me;-). Alex's documentation can be incorporated in the forms of
links like for example in the lisp markup and maybe integrated with
the search function.
Wiki, make it better and better and make sure it is well supported.
This would be an ideal to aim for:-)
Cheers,
Tomas
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Re: picoWiki
I will have to implement some picoWiki markup for html anchor for this. Anchors is a bad idea actually. It does not go well with the wiki style links and page management. Also, using anchors leads to long documents which are pain to edit in a wiki. Every topic worth referencing should have its own page. i.e. create a page classes, list there classes similar to the reference for functions and refer markup there. I created http://logand.com/picoWiki/classes page with list of classes. I started documenting a few, e.g. http://logand.com/picoWiki/+Blob so feel free to add more stuff if you feel other could benefit from your knowledge. Cheers, Tomas -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Hi Henrik, I could help with implementing the code highlighting I have on prodevtips, it's all happening in the client through javascript, very easy actually, you simply need the ability to add html in the content, if the necessary javascript files are included then you can do: code=classpico /code And all pico lisp code in the code block will be highlighted. nice, I did not notice the syntax highliting feature though as I have javascript turned off. Syntax highlighting is nice but I think the links to picolisp reference manual are the most important part of the lisp markup. That's the main power of the web I think, not having to look things up but simply click on them... instant information. If you fancy doing this in picoLisp (that's the thing we are after here anyway;-), there are a few things that could be improved in the current lisp tag in picoWiki: 1) highlight class names and link them to a reference explanation. As there is no single reference place similar to built in functions, maybe create a picoWiki reference for classes and link it there, i.e. create a page classes, list there classes similar to the reference for functions and refer markup there. (I will have to implement some picoWiki markup for html anchor for this.) 2) highlight strings and persistent symbols 3) cute parenthesis highliting as in lisp paste would be nice, see http://paste.lisp.org/display/68251 for example 4) the content of the lisp element can start with prompt, e.g. : (setq lambda quote) - 67293272 the : and - are currently linked to the picolisp reference which should not be the case. I attach the file which generates the picolisp xref/highliting. To use it: : (load '@lib/http.l) - http404 : (load '@lib/xhtml.l) - reset : (load /tmp/markupLisp.l) - markupLisp : (markupLisp (setq lambda quote)) (a href=http://www.software-lab.de/refS.html#setq;setq/a lambda a href=http://www.software-lab.de/refQ.html#quote;quote/a)- T : The markupLisp function gets a string and outputs html. I hope to post the whole picoWiki code at some point when it's more complete and the mess cleaned up bit:-) Cheers, Tomas (setq *Xref (mapcar pack '(new sym str char name sp? pat? fun? all intern extern loc box? str? ext? touch zap length size format chop pack glue pad align center text wrap pre? sub? low? upp? lowc uppc fold val getd set setq def de dm recur undef redef daemon patch xchg on off onOff zero one default expr subr let let? use accu push push1 pop cut del queue fifo idx lup cache locale dirname put get prop ; =: : :: putl getl wipe meta atom pair lst? num? sym? flg? sp? pat? fun? box? str? ext? bool not == n== = =0 =T n0 nT = = match + - * / % */ ** inc dec lt0 ge0 gt0 abs bit? | x| sqrt seed rand max min length size accu format pad oct hex fmt64 money car cdr caar cadr cdar cddr caaar caadr cadar caddr cdaar cdadr cddar cdddr cadddr cr nth con cons conc circ rot list need full make made chain link yoke copy mix append delete delq replace insert remove place strip split reverse flip trim clip head tail stem fin last member memq mmeq sect diff index offset assoc asoq rank sort uniq group length size val set xchg push push1 pop cut queue fifo idx balance get fill apply load args next arg rest pass quote as pid lit eval run macro curry def de dm recur recurse undef box new type isa method meth send try super extra with bind job let let? use and or nand nor xor bool not nil t prog prog1 prog2 if if2 ifn when unless cond nond case state while until loop do at for catch throw finally ! e $ sys call tick ipid opid kill quit task fork pipe later timeout bye apply pass maps map mapc maplist mapcar mapcon mapcan filter seek find pick cnt sum maxi mini fish by path in ipid out opid pipe ctl any sym str load hear tell key poll peek char skip eol eof from till line format scl read print println printsp prin prinl msg space beep tab flush rewind rd pr wr rpc wait sync echo info file dir lines open close port listen accept host connect nagle udp rc pretty pp show view here prEval mail *Class class dm rel var var: new type isa method meth send try object extend super extra with This pool journal id seq lieu lock begin commit rollback mark free dbck rel dbs dbs+ db: fmt64 tree root fetch store count leaf minKey maxKey genKey useKey init step scan iter prune zapTree chkTree db aux collect be goal prove - unify ? pretty pp show loc debug vi ld trace lint lintAll fmt64 argv opt gc raw alarm protect heap env up stk date time usec stamp dat$ $dat datSym datStr strDat expDat day week ultimo tim$ $tim telStr expTel locale allowed allow pwd cd chdir ctty info dir dirname call tick kill quit task fork pipe timeout mail test bye NIL *OS *DB T *Solo *PPid *Pid @ @@ @@@ This *Dbg *Zap *Scl *Class *Dbs *Run *Hup *Sig1 *Sig2 ^ *Err *Rst *Msg *Uni *Led
Re: picoWiki
Hi Tomas, class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended. Just tried with both w3m and firefox, and both seem to work well :-) Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Yes, Wiki's can be quite useful. Getting a copy of the standard reference documentation on there would be useful. Then we could all work on expanind it a little as the current desciptions are quite terse in places. Granted the fact that we have readable documentation at all is a great boon, and a credit to the author, way too many projects out there don't have docs worth spitting at, let alone reading. A Cookbook of how to solve various task would probably be the next step. At the moment my mode of operation seems to be: 1) try to do X 2) get stuck 3) Ask Alex 4) Get a response with code which is remarkably consise and uses functions I ether didn't know existed or had completly forgotten about. There seems to be a lot of cool and consise ways of doing things once you join the dots of which sets of functions to use together : ) I certainly would consult a wiki, and do my best to contribute where the occation arose. P.S. how did you do the syntax highligting for lisp code? It's a rather nice feature. regards Konrad. On 09/10/2008, Alexander Burger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tomas, class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended. Just tried with both w3m and firefox, and both seem to work well :-) Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
picoWiki
Hi all, I am implementing a wiki in picoLisp, see http://logand.com/picoWiki Do you think it would be useful for the picoLisp comunity (can we call it that way yet?) to have a wiki with publicly editable info about picoLisp and related stuff? If yes, any ideas and/or content contributions welcome;-) Cheers, Tomas -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Hi Tomas, I am implementing a wiki in picoLisp, see http://logand.com/picoWiki Good idea! However, I did not succeed to connect (yet?). Do you think it would be useful for the picoLisp comunity (can we call it that way yet?) Hehe, perhaps better call it a com-mini-ty ;-) Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
http://logand.com/picoWiki Ah, now it works! Seems I just had a temporary network problem. Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: picoWiki
Hi Alex, Good idea! However, I did not succeed to connect (yet?). I just tried with w3m, looks like w3m messes up the relative links, e.g. if I am at http://logand.com/picoWiki and have a relative link a class=i href=?ChangesChanges/a, w3m will interpret it as http://logand.com/?Changes. It works in Firefox though, i.e. it opens http://logand.com/picoWiki?Changes page as intended. I'll think how to do the links better. Thanks, Tomas -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
