Re: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?

2002-12-14 Thread Guillermo
- Original Message -
From: Guillermo pen...@rogers.com




 As we all know pinhole is not about sharpness, nor I am suggesting we
strive
 for it.  Having said that, it is actually possible to make poinhole images
 that under certain conditions could be undistinguishable from glass lens
 images. A good example is an image in the Renner's pinhole book.  Under
the
 assumption that we humans can discern more than 5 line pairs per
millimeter,

The last statement should have read: Under the assumption that we humans
CAN NOT discern more than 5 line pairs per millimeter with the unaided eye

Guillermo




Re: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?

2002-12-12 Thread erickson
Thanks for the information. Eric Renner calls people like us techno-nerds.
But I know for a fact that he knows all this stuff too but won't admit it.
- Original Message -
From: Guillermo pen...@rogers.com
To: pinhole-discussion@p at ???
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?



 - Original Message -
 From: erick...@hickorytech.net
 To: pinhole-discussion@p at ???
 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 9:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?


  Here's a question that has troubled me for a long time, since we've
gained
  the attention of the physicists among us. If the optimal image occurs
when
  all light waves are 'in phase, which the Young article says occurs at
the
  junction between the nearfield and farfield diffraction patterns
(whatever
  that is), is there another point further on where the various waves
again
  come into simultaneous phase sync, and thus optimal sharpness?
 Theoretically
  there should be, but how far?

 Physicists analyze diffraction using either near or far field methods.
 Far-field means the source of light is far relative to the aperture size,
 the wave front arriving at the aperture is assumed to be flat.  Near-field
 is the apposite, wave front is assumed to arrive curve shaped.  This, I
 believe, also affects or determines how far from the aperture the
near-field
 diffraction reaches and how far from the aperture the far field
diffraction
 starts.  There is a gray area in between, this area can be assumed to
 separate near and far field diffractions voiding any juncture of them,
and
 as Young's article says: here, the image is not amenable to description
by
 simple arguments.   When you talk about in phase you may be thinking
 about how a zoneplate works, where the aim is carefully position the edges
 of the clear rings so the diffractions caused by all of those edges
 positively interfere at the focal point and therefore add up their
 intensity. Pinhole does not work like that.

 For my view of how zoneplates work, pls read:
 http://members.rogers.com/penate/zoneplate.html
 It talks a bit about the near and far field diffraction, also.

 Don't quote me on all this pls, this is just a layman's view of the topic.

 Guillermo



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RE: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?

2002-12-11 Thread Ed Nazarko
It's the bending of light.  

Just as a prism bends light, and then breaks it into different colors in
a rainbow, the edge of a pinhole bends light and breaks it up.  The
rainbow from a prism is focused, white light that becomes a blurry
colored light band because different wavelengths of light get bent
differently, and travel at different speeds through a solid.  (For the
physicists out there, don't bother to email me back to correct this, I
know I over-simplified it...in a way that will make it easy to use the
idea.  This is about photography, not optics.)  Different colors of
light focus in different ways - the perfect focus setting for pure red
light is different than for pure blue, than for pure green.  Lenses are
basically a form of prism, and bend light (light gets bent at each
materials interface it goes through) to get it to focus an image to a
certain size at a certain location, and in camera lenses, some of the
glass elements are bending the light to size the image and focus it in a
certain way, other glass elements are there specifically to get the red,
green, and blue light colors back in line with each other to reduce the
impact on sharpness - manage the negative impacts of diffraction.  Glass
lenses bend the light, and then rebend it to try to get it lined up
correctly.

If it's not done perfectly, you'll see little 1960's colored psychedelic
auras around the edges of things.  It's called chromatic aberration.  In
black and white, it just looks unsharp.

In a lens, despite all the hard work with the glass elements to get the
light all lined up, stopping the lens down to a small aperture basically
puts a pinhole (which diffracts light) in to the middle of a system of
lenses designed to diffract light at some optimal aperture.  All lenses
have apertures where the lens produces the sharpest result.  Those are
the apertures where the designers optimized the glass design to work
with the aperture size.  Bigger apertures will have a little more blur
because the glass won't focus all the colors as well; smaller ones will
have a little more blur because the small aperture bends the colors of
light more unevenly than the designer anticipated.  Once you learn the
characteristics of your lens, you try to shoot at the best apertures.

A pinhole camera causes diffraction blur along the edges, but you can
minimize its impact on your image a lot by 1) using a really big
negative so that the ratio of light blur to size of image is small and
seemingly not noticeable; 2) shooting in black and white.  And once you
learn the diffraction and chromatic aberration characteristics of your
pinhole, you'll learn to use them artistically.

So, the blurry fringe that you see along a well-defined edge, is the
result of diffraction bending light, and then causing what looks like
unsharpness along what you expect to be a sharp edge because it bent the
colors unevenly and they hit the film at different focus points.  The
unsharp mask in Photoshop, or in the chemical photography world, is a
way to make that blurriness go away a bit.

CCDs in digital cameras use little tiny lenses over every color sensor,
to intensify the light, and they are therefore often subject to
diffraction color auras, or chromatic aberration, no matter how
wonderful and expensive the lens on the camera itself.


Ed Nazarko

-Original Message-
From: pinhole-discussion-admin@p at ???
[mailto:pinhole-discussion-admin@p at ???] On Behalf Of Lisa Reddig
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:39 AM
To: pinhole-discussion@p at ???
Subject: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?

 Ed Nazarko writes:
 
 Diffraction cannot be avoided, it's the way light behaves when going
 through any
 system.  Every lens, telescope mirror and pinhole has diffraction.
The
 best optics
 are said to be 'diffraction limited' which means that the optics are
 about as good
 as they can be because the other defects in the system have been
reduced
 to below
 the level of the diffraction.
 

I've been hunting on the web for a good description of diffraction, but
it
all talks about physics and x-rays.  Could some one give a real simple,
basic description of diffraction and how it shows itself in pinholes?  I
would appreciate no equations if possible.  An example with a picture
would
be cool.

Thanks
Lisa


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Re: [pinhole-discussion] What is Diffraction?

2002-12-11 Thread luish m. coelho

a glass of water with a straw inside is a simple example.
you see the straw bent but it is not.
thats what happen with light when it changes the medium it is travelling 
(from air to water or through the glass, example). I am not sure about 
what happens with pinhole, once  there is no medium change. anyone?




I've been hunting on the web for a good description of diffraction, but it
all talks about physics and x-rays.  Could some one give a real simple,
basic description of diffraction and how it shows itself in pinholes?  I
would appreciate no equations if possible.  An example with a picture would
be cool.

Thanks
Lisa


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