Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Michael Stapelberg]

I have access to the web interface and can list the subscribers, but I
don’t see an easy way to get the 67 subscribers in a machine-readable
format.

I made you a mod, maybe that allows you the same kind of access, and maybe
you’re more successful in interacting with the UI than I am? :)

I think it might be easiest to contact the debian-lists admins so that they
can use the mailman command line tools to export the subscribers.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Alexandre Viau  wrote:

> Hello Michael,
>
> According to the following page, you are the admin of the alioth list:
>  - https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/pkg-
> go-maintainers
>
> > Pkg-go-maintainers list run by stapelberg at debian.org
>
> Are you able to export the list of subscribers?
>
> If yes, we might be able to open a bug similar to this one, and get our
> subscribers transfered:
>  - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=896615
>
> If you are not able to access the admin interface, please let me know
> and I will contact the alioth-lists.debian.net admins.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On 2018-06-24 12:08 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> > I don’t know :). You’d have to talk to listmasters, I guess?
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Alexandre Viau  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 2018-06-24 10:09 AM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> > > The debian-go mailing list has been
> > > created: https://lists.debian.org/debian-go/
> > 
> >
> > Great!
> >
> > > I currently don’t have cycles to do any sort of migration, but if
> > > someone wants to tackle this task, please let us know :).
> >
> > You are talking about transferring subscribers?
> >
> > Is there an admin interface that allows adding subscribers in bulk?
> Or
> > maybe we can script it easily?
> >
> > I am willing to help.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Viau
> > av...@debian.org 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Michael
>
> --
> Alexandre Viau
> av...@debian.org
>
>
>


-- 
Best regards,
Michael
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Alexandre Viau]

On 2018-07-27 07:32 AM, Paride Legovini wrote:
> Alexandre Viau wrote on 27/07/2018:
>> If yes, we might be able to open a bug similar to this one, and get our
>> subscribers transfered:
>>  - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=896615
> The team's salsa page [0] still mentions only the alioth mailing list,
> it should probably be updated.

Done.

> If I get it right, we will keep using the alioth mailing list in the
> Maintainer field, so all the automated messages will be directed there,

For now, we still use the Alioth list in the Maintainer field, yes.

However I think that we would eventually move to a tracker email like so:
 -  team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org

One thing is certain, we will not use debian...@lists.debian.org in the
Maintainer fields because this is not allowed on lists.debian.org.

-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Paride Legovini]

Alexandre Viau wrote on 27/07/2018:
> If yes, we might be able to open a bug similar to this one, and get our
> subscribers transfered:
>  - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=896615

The team's salsa page [0] still mentions only the alioth mailing list,
it should probably be updated.

If I get it right, we will keep using the alioth mailing list in the
Maintainer field, so all the automated messages will be directed there,
while debian...@lists.debian.org will be used for the actual discussion
between humans. Is it so? (This is like it's done in debian-science.)

Cheers,

Paride

[0] https://go-team.pages.debian.net/

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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Alexandre Viau]

Hello Michael,

According to the following page, you are the admin of the alioth list:
 - https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/pkg-go-maintainers

> Pkg-go-maintainers list run by stapelberg at debian.org

Are you able to export the list of subscribers?

If yes, we might be able to open a bug similar to this one, and get our
subscribers transfered:
 - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=896615

If you are not able to access the admin interface, please let me know
and I will contact the alioth-lists.debian.net admins.

Cheers,

On 2018-06-24 12:08 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> I don’t know :). You’d have to talk to listmasters, I guess?
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Alexandre Viau  > wrote:
>
> On 2018-06-24 10:09 AM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> > The debian-go mailing list has been
> > created: https://lists.debian.org/debian-go/
> 
>
> Great!
>
> > I currently don’t have cycles to do any sort of migration, but if
> > someone wants to tackle this task, please let us know :).
>
> You are talking about transferring subscribers?
>
> Is there an admin interface that allows adding subscribers in bulk? Or
> maybe we can script it easily?
>
> I am willing to help.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- 
> Alexandre Viau
> av...@debian.org 
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Michael

-- 
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av...@debian.org




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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Dmitry Smirnov]

On Tuesday, 10 July 2018 10:25:30 AM AEST Clément Hermann wrote:
> I actually agree those messages are important, and I do want them in my
> inbox. But I would like conversations to stand out, because I sometime
> miss them drowned in the notifications. Also, I almost never need to
> search the notifications after a few days, while I might go back to some
> old discussion, so the retention doesn't have to be the same.

Retention is a good point but often conversation start after some of those 
automated messages. Not so easy to keep apart...


> It's much easier to setup a filter for this if it's a different mailing
> list (or in this case, one notification for the go-team on the tracker,
> and a mailing list.

With two mail lists there is a risk of ignoring some of the messages that 
otherwise would come to your attention when everything team-related is in one 
list.

Arguably most of our communication happens in bug reports and they are not 
segregatable from automated messages. Splitting mail lists into two will not 
eliminate the need to monitor both and one of them will be low volume but not 
bugs-related? I don't see the point...

Convenient sorting may be possible with headers like "X-Debian-Package" and 
others...


> Admittedly my e-mail client (thunderbird) sucks, as I can't define this
> in a single filter like  AND . One of
> this days I need to setup filters on the server…

Some time ago I've started to use local IMAP mail server as a mail storage.
Regardless of what email client I might be using at a time, I can now sort 
everything using unified Sieve filters. This was quite difficult to set up 
though...

-- 
Cheers,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've
tried everything else.
-- Winston Churchill


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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Clément Hermann]

On 09/07/2018 15:49, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:05 PM, Clément Hermann  > wrote:
> 
> On 25/06/2018 14:33, Pirate Praveen wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On June 25, 2018 11:55:54 AM GMT+05:30, Michael Stapelberg 
> mailto:stapelb...@debian.org>> wrote:
> >> Ah, thanks for pointing that out. We already have
> >> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/pkg-go/
>  apparently. What is the
> >> maintainer
> >> address in that entry being used for?
> >>
> > 
> > From what I guessed, the current team is auto created (or some one 
> created it manually) from the current maintainer email address (alioth).
> > 
> > It may be enough to start using team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org
>  for new uploads to come
> under this team. But its better to confirm with someone who knows
> more about tracker.
> > 
> 
> In case people missed it, there was a post on d-d-announce from Raphael
> Hertzog describing the features of the tracker in this regard:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/07/msg1.html
> 
> 
> So, to summarize: it was indeed auto-created; it is usable as maintainer
> address, and can even be used as a discussion list but messages aren't
> archived.
> 
> IMO, it would be nice to use this as a maintainer address and have all
> the "cruft" (notifications and such) messages going to it, while keeping
> a proper mailing list (maybe asking for one @lists.debian.org
> ) for
> discussion.
> 
> 
> The start of this thread was the fact that our
> debian...@lists.debian.org  mailing
> list was created :).
>  
> 
> 
> Actually, even if we don't use the tracker, I think it would be nice to
> separate the notifications from the discussion - at least it would ease
> my own workflow ;)
> 
> Thoughts ?
> 
> 
> Sounds reasonable. Can you outline how we would migrate? Do we need to
> change the maintainer field to a tracker address? Would we communicate
> with the tracker primarily, and add debian-go@ for things that might
> interest the broader group?
>  

My proposal is that discussions take place on the mailing list. and the
informational message, that we don't need to archive since the
information is elsewhere, on the tracker.

I haven't given much thought to the migration path yet, there's no point
if I'm the only one thinking it would be better. Let's discuss first :)

Cheers,

-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Clément Hermann]

On 10/07/2018 01:08, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> On Monday, 9 July 2018 11:05:51 PM AEST Clément Hermann wrote:
>> I think it would be nice to
>> separate the notifications from the discussion - at least it would ease
>> my own workflow ;)
> 
> There was a time when I thought such idea make sense. Now I'm convinced that 
> automated messages are important part of team communication. They should be 
> difficult to ignore and having them here in one place have numerous 
> advantages. You'll see what's going on with other packages including 
> dependency packages of those you working on; some bugs are not unique and 
> affect other packages as well, etc.
> After all what you suggest is to have even more mail lists to subscribe to... 
> I'm all for having one mail list.
> You may not like the noise but that's the way it should be and perhaps the 
> best wrong way to do things. You can sort messages in this list using mail 
> rules if you have to.
> 

I actually agree those messages are important, and I do want them in my
inbox. But I would like conversations to stand out, because I sometime
miss them drowned in the notifications. Also, I almost never need to
search the notifications after a few days, while I might go back to some
old discussion, so the retention doesn't have to be the same.

It's much easier to setup a filter for this if it's a different mailing
list (or in this case, one notification for the go-team on the tracker,
and a mailing list.

I won't push on this too much, if there's no consensus I'll manage.

Admittedly my e-mail client (thunderbird) sucks, as I can't define this
in a single filter like  AND . One of
this days I need to setup filters on the server…

Cheers,

-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Dmitry Smirnov]

On Monday, 9 July 2018 11:05:51 PM AEST Clément Hermann wrote:
> I think it would be nice to
> separate the notifications from the discussion - at least it would ease
> my own workflow ;)

There was a time when I thought such idea make sense. Now I'm convinced that 
automated messages are important part of team communication. They should be 
difficult to ignore and having them here in one place have numerous 
advantages. You'll see what's going on with other packages including 
dependency packages of those you working on; some bugs are not unique and 
affect other packages as well, etc.
After all what you suggest is to have even more mail lists to subscribe to... 
I'm all for having one mail list.
You may not like the noise but that's the way it should be and perhaps the 
best wrong way to do things. You can sort messages in this list using mail 
rules if you have to.

-- 
Best wishes,
 Dmitry Smirnov

---

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-- H. L. Mencken, 1949


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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Michael Stapelberg]

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:05 PM, Clément Hermann  wrote:

> On 25/06/2018 14:33, Pirate Praveen wrote:
> >
> >
> > On June 25, 2018 11:55:54 AM GMT+05:30, Michael Stapelberg <
> stapelb...@debian.org> wrote:
> >> Ah, thanks for pointing that out. We already have
> >> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/pkg-go/ apparently. What is the
> >> maintainer
> >> address in that entry being used for?
> >>
> >
> > From what I guessed, the current team is auto created (or some one
> created it manually) from the current maintainer email address (alioth).
> >
> > It may be enough to start using team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org for new
> uploads to come under this team. But its better to confirm with someone who
> knows more about tracker.
> >
>
> In case people missed it, there was a post on d-d-announce from Raphael
> Hertzog describing the features of the tracker in this regard:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/07/msg1.html
>
> So, to summarize: it was indeed auto-created; it is usable as maintainer
> address, and can even be used as a discussion list but messages aren't
> archived.
>
> IMO, it would be nice to use this as a maintainer address and have all
> the "cruft" (notifications and such) messages going to it, while keeping
> a proper mailing list (maybe asking for one @lists.debian.org) for
> discussion.
>

The start of this thread was the fact that our debian...@lists.debian.org
mailing list was created :).


>
> Actually, even if we don't use the tracker, I think it would be nice to
> separate the notifications from the discussion - at least it would ease
> my own workflow ;)
>
> Thoughts ?
>

Sounds reasonable. Can you outline how we would migrate? Do we need to
change the maintainer field to a tracker address? Would we communicate with
the tracker primarily, and add debian-go@ for things that might interest
the broader group?


>
>
> --
> nodens
>
>
>
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> pkg-go-maintainers
>



-- 
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Michael
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Clément Hermann]

On 25/06/2018 14:33, Pirate Praveen wrote:
> 
> 
> On June 25, 2018 11:55:54 AM GMT+05:30, Michael Stapelberg 
>  wrote:
>> Ah, thanks for pointing that out. We already have
>> https://tracker.debian.org/teams/pkg-go/ apparently. What is the
>> maintainer
>> address in that entry being used for?
>>
> 
> From what I guessed, the current team is auto created (or some one created it 
> manually) from the current maintainer email address (alioth).
> 
> It may be enough to start using team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org for new 
> uploads to come under this team. But its better to confirm with someone who 
> knows more about tracker.
> 

In case people missed it, there was a post on d-d-announce from Raphael
Hertzog describing the features of the tracker in this regard:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/07/msg1.html

So, to summarize: it was indeed auto-created; it is usable as maintainer
address, and can even be used as a discussion list but messages aren't
archived.

IMO, it would be nice to use this as a maintainer address and have all
the "cruft" (notifications and such) messages going to it, while keeping
a proper mailing list (maybe asking for one @lists.debian.org) for
discussion.

Actually, even if we don't use the tracker, I think it would be nice to
separate the notifications from the discussion - at least it would ease
my own workflow ;)

Thoughts ?


-- 
nodens



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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Pirate Praveen]

On June 25, 2018 11:55:54 AM GMT+05:30, Michael Stapelberg 
 wrote:
>Ah, thanks for pointing that out. We already have
>https://tracker.debian.org/teams/pkg-go/ apparently. What is the
>maintainer
>address in that entry being used for?
>

From what I guessed, the current team is auto created (or some one created it 
manually) from the current maintainer email address (alioth).

It may be enough to start using team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org for new uploads 
to come under this team. But its better to confirm with someone who knows more 
about tracker.
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Pirate Praveen]

On June 25, 2018 9:06:12 AM GMT+05:30, Pirate Praveen 
 wrote:
>
>IIRC, tracker.Debian.org is supposed to have a team feature which can
>be used to subscribe all team packages. There should be a tracker.d.o
>email alias as well.
>

This is documented at 
https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa/AliothMigration#tracker.debian.org

The steps,
1. Creating a team at https://tracker.debian.org/teams/ and
2. changing maintainer address to team+pkg...@tracker.debian.org and
3. subscribing to it
-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Pirate Praveen]

On June 24, 2018 10:06:57 PM GMT+05:30, Michael Stapelberg 
 wrote:
>IIUC, people are supposed to subscribe to a package to receive the
>automated mails which currently go to our mailing list.
>
>I’m not sure which address should be put into the maintainer field,
>though.
>Maybe reach out to listmasters and other larger teams? Perhaps the Perl
>team has figured this out already?

IIRC, tracker.Debian.org is supposed to have a team feature which can be used 
to subscribe all team packages. There should be a tracker.d.o email alias as 
well.

-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Alexandre Viau]

On 2018-06-24 12:08 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> I don’t know :). You’d have to talk to listmasters, I guess?

In this case then I doubt that it will be possible but it is worth asking.

Do we want to start using this list as a maintainer address? This could
be an opportunity to have a list free of all the noise that this generates.

Cheers,

-- 
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Michael Stapelberg]

I don’t know :). You’d have to talk to listmasters, I guess?

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Alexandre Viau  wrote:

> On 2018-06-24 10:09 AM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> > The debian-go mailing list has been
> > created: https://lists.debian.org/debian-go/
>
> Great!
>
> > I currently don’t have cycles to do any sort of migration, but if
> > someone wants to tackle this task, please let us know :).
>
> You are talking about transferring subscribers?
>
> Is there an admin interface that allows adding subscribers in bulk? Or
> maybe we can script it easily?
>
> I am willing to help.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Alexandre Viau
> av...@debian.org
>
>


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Michael
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Re: [pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Alexandre Viau]

On 2018-06-24 10:09 AM, Michael Stapelberg wrote:
> The debian-go mailing list has been
> created: https://lists.debian.org/debian-go/

Great!

> I currently don’t have cycles to do any sort of migration, but if
> someone wants to tackle this task, please let us know :).

You are talking about transferring subscribers?

Is there an admin interface that allows adding subscribers in bulk? Or
maybe we can script it easily?

I am willing to help.

Cheers,

-- 
Alexandre Viau
av...@debian.org



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[pkg-go] debian-go mailing list

[Michael Stapelberg]

Hey,

The debian-go mailing list has been created:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-go/

The intention was to use that list as a longer-term mailing list after the
alioth list replacement server shuts down, too.

I currently don’t have cycles to do any sort of migration, but if someone
wants to tackle this task, please let us know :).

-- 
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Michael
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