Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 06:01:50 PM Alexandre Viau wrote: > From the patch: > > - putting the team in the Maintainers field is a strong statement that > > fully collaborative maintenance is preferred. Anyone can commit to the > > git repository and upload as needed. A courtesy email to Uploaders can > > be nice but not required. > > > > - Team in Uploaders is a weak statement of collaboration. Help in > > maintaining the package is appreciated, commits to the git repository > > are freely welcomed, but before uploading, please contact the > > Maintainer for the green light. > > Please take the time to read the original proposal: > https://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-go-maintainers/Week-of-Mon-20 > 160104/002878.html I think I'm finally getting to understand what you are saying... I need some time to digest the idea but Uploaders were always equivalent to Maintainer, having equal rights etc. Amendment suggests that Team in Maintainer field means too much power for everybody i.e. Uploaders do not matter while Team in Uploaders indicate that co-maintainers are engaged in maintenance and want to be informed... This is still not good as it is quite different from other teams and also because it implies specific interpretation of fields that are not entirely obvious... -- All the best, Dmitry Smirnov. --- I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of. -- Clarence Darrow signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
Dimitry, On 19/01/16 05:57 PM, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:06:47 AM Alexandre Viau wrote: >> You may consider some of your packages to be more sensitive, so you may >> decide to have a different preference on a per-package basis. > > Perhaps I've missed something... How do you suggest to indicate that? From the patch: > - putting the team in the Maintainers field is a strong statement that > fully collaborative maintenance is preferred. Anyone can commit to the > git repository and upload as needed. A courtesy email to Uploaders can > be nice but not required. > > - Team in Uploaders is a weak statement of collaboration. Help in > maintaining the package is appreciated, commits to the git repository > are freely welcomed, but before uploading, please contact the > Maintainer for the green light. Please take the time to read the original proposal: https://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-go-maintainers/Week-of-Mon-20160104/002878.html -- Alexandre Viau av...@debian.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:06:47 AM Alexandre Viau wrote: > Would you like to amend my proposal? You may suggest something else. I don't like proposal as posted but I can't focus on amendments now... > The Debian Python Modules Team uses this policy and currently > successfully maintains 800 packages. I'm not a member of Python team and I'm not impressed by how they operate. Perl team seems to be the most efficient so we can try to model after them. > You may not agree with allowing new uploads without communication, but > are you also against me allowing it for my own packages? Your own packages are your own... It is nice to let you co-maintainers know what you are doing but it is not mandatory. > You may consider some of your packages to be more sensitive, so you may > decide to have a different preference on a per-package basis. Perhaps I've missed something... How do you suggest to indicate that? -- Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov. --- It is impossible to imagine Goethe or Beethoven being good at billiards or golf. -- H. L. Mencken signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On 19/01/16 05:50 PM, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > I don't understan what are you talking about and what Git have to do with it. > You mean team repositories hosted at Alioth? That seems to be a good > requirement. Yes, I agree. -- Alexandre Viau av...@debian.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 04:21:28 PM Alexandre Viau wrote: > I don't consider a team upload the same as an NMU, as we are a team and > we work together. A team policy would be addressed to members of the > teams and not all DDs. However, it is true that the spirit of it is the > same. I was trying to say that NMU best governs how team uploads should be done when you are not in Uploaders. When you are one of the Uploaders it means that you are maintainer of the package hence free to do serious changes. > Team uploads can be different as they would require the use of our git > repositories. I don't understan what are you talking about and what Git have to do with it. You mean team repositories hosted at Alioth? That seems to be a good requirement. -- Regards, Dmitry Smirnov. --- Faith: not wanting to know what the truth is. -- Friedrich Nietzsche signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
[pkg-go] [uscan] git mode: allow for scanning repositories without tags
Package: devscripts Version: 2.15.10 Severity: wishlist Usertags: uscan In the Go Packaging Team[1], we face the issue that the Golang community does not tag releases for library packages. This practice is encouraged by the golang tools and by the community. Whether that is a good thing or not is the subject of a broader discussion. When used with git mode, I would like for uscan to generate a version number even though the repository is not tagged. One of our tools, dh-make-golang, is able to do this. For example: "0.0~git20151028.0.2a60fc2-1": - 0.0 is the latest tag. If there are no tags found, 0.0 is the default. - git20151028 represents the date of the last commit - 0 represents the number of commits that day (counting from 0) - 2a60fc2 is the commit id It does not have to be this exact versioning scheme, others can work too. I have done a quick research and it looks like this can be done with a combination of git ls-remote, downloading the last object, and parsing it for the date. This would help us a great deal to keep up with our packages, and would surely be useful for other teams/packages. This was discussed in dh-make-golang's issue tracker (adding Michael to CC as he has expressed a friend of his would like to code this): - https://github.com/Debian/dh-make-golang/issues/8 [1]: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org Cheers, -- Alexandre Viau av...@debian.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
Hello, On 19/01/16 03:50 PM, Michael Stapelberg wrote: > aviau, in which way would you want people to express their preferences? See the patch: > - putting the team in the Maintainers field is a strong statement that > fully collaborative maintenance is preferred. Anyone can commit to the > git repository and upload as needed. A courtesy email to Uploaders can > be nice but not required. > > - Team in Uploaders is a weak statement of collaboration. Help in > maintaining the package is appreciated, commits to the git repository > are freely welcomed, but before uploading, please contact the > Maintainer for the green light. > Could we re-use the LowNMU mechanism that Debian has, By putting the team in uploaders or in maintainers, you indicate your preference. There is no need to maintain a LowThresholdNmu page or equivalent. > see https://wiki.debian.org/LowThresholdNmu? Or is LowNMU different than > what your proposal wants to accomplish? If yes, can you outline the > differences that are important to you please? I don't consider a team upload the same as an NMU, as we are a team and we work together. A team policy would be addressed to members of the teams and not all DDs. However, it is true that the spirit of it is the same. Team uploads can be different as they would require the use of our git repositories. Also, it looks like the NMU policy does not apply when you are in the uploaders, which is the case for us. For example, you subscribe to LowThresholdNmu and it does not appear in the tracker page for golang-golang-x-sys, which you maintain: - https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/golang-golang-x-sys -- Alexandre Viau av...@debian.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
aviau, in which way would you want people to express their preferences? Could we re-use the LowNMU mechanism that Debian has, see https://wiki.debian.org/LowThresholdNmu? Or is LowNMU different than what your proposal wants to accomplish? If yes, can you outline the differences that are important to you please? On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Alexandre Viau wrote: > Dimitry, > > Would you like to amend my proposal? You may suggest something else. > > The Debian Python Modules Team uses this policy and currently > successfully maintains 800 packages. > > You may not agree with allowing new uploads without communication, but > are you also against me allowing it for my own packages? The proposed > update to the policy allows you to indicate your preference. You will be > free chose. > > You may consider some of your packages to be more sensitive, so you may > decide to have a different preference on a per-package basis. > > In the end, I may be the only one that uses the "feature", but that > should not be a reason to deny it to me. > > -- > Alexandre Viau > av...@debian.org > > -- Best regards, Michael ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
[pkg-go] golang-blackfriday 1.4-2 MIGRATED to testing
FYI: The status of the golang-blackfriday source package in Debian's testing distribution has changed. Previous version: 1.4-1 Current version: 1.4-2 -- This email is automatically generated once a day. As the installation of new packages into testing happens multiple times a day you will receive later changes on the next day. See https://release.debian.org/testing-watch/ for more information. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
[pkg-go] golang-github-shurcool-sanitized-anchor-name 0.0~git20151028.0.10ef21a-2 MIGRATED to testing
FYI: The status of the golang-github-shurcool-sanitized-anchor-name source package in Debian's testing distribution has changed. Previous version: 0.0~git20151028.0.10ef21a-1 Current version: 0.0~git20151028.0.10ef21a-2 -- This email is automatically generated once a day. As the installation of new packages into testing happens multiple times a day you will receive later changes on the next day. See https://release.debian.org/testing-watch/ for more information. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
[pkg-go] go-md2man 1.0.5-1 MIGRATED to testing
FYI: The status of the go-md2man source package in Debian's testing distribution has changed. Previous version: 1.0.4-3 Current version: 1.0.5-1 -- This email is automatically generated once a day. As the installation of new packages into testing happens multiple times a day you will receive later changes on the next day. See https://release.debian.org/testing-watch/ for more information. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
Dimitry, Would you like to amend my proposal? You may suggest something else. The Debian Python Modules Team uses this policy and currently successfully maintains 800 packages. You may not agree with allowing new uploads without communication, but are you also against me allowing it for my own packages? The proposed update to the policy allows you to indicate your preference. You will be free chose. You may consider some of your packages to be more sensitive, so you may decide to have a different preference on a per-package basis. In the end, I may be the only one that uses the "feature", but that should not be a reason to deny it to me. -- Alexandre Viau av...@debian.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 09:38:56 AM Michael Stapelberg wrote: > Dmitry, thanks for articulating your concerns. AFAICT, you are mostly > concerned about uploads of new versions. I was merely giving one example... There might be more situations not necessarily bound to new uploads. It is just that new uploads usually have greatest potential to break things. :-) > Would you agree to a no-communication-necessary policy when it only covers > bugfixes/other package maintenance, for example mass-changes such as > getting rid of “Depends: golang-go” on all library packages? Absolutely. I think Team uploads are best treated like NMUs -- non intrusive and conservative but necessary. That rule is perfectly applicable to severe bugs or transitions as well as to mass updates where impact is well understood or safe. -- Regards, Dmitry Smirnov. --- I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone. -- H. L. Mencken signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
Dmitry, thanks for articulating your concerns. AFAICT, you are mostly concerned about uploads of new versions. Would you agree to a no-communication-necessary policy when it only covers bugfixes/other package maintenance, for example mass-changes such as getting rid of “Depends: golang-go” on all library packages? On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:51:22 AM Michael Stapelberg wrote: > > Dmitry, can you please outline what it is that you dislike about the > > suggestion? > > Too much freedom to upload without notifying those who are responsible for > package. Lack of notion that Team upload is a rough equivalent to NMU hence > notification is a must as well as delay (through DELAYED queue or other > means). > Alexandre wants to ensure that everyone can upload everything without > talking > but team maintenance should be more about communication. > For example one might want to upload new upstream release of a package > without telling Uploaders. But new release may not be uploaded for reason > like when Uploaders (who presumably follow upstream development) are aware > of > regression or disruptive change in new release and prefer to wait for > update. > In number of cases upload can be held by known upstream bugs etc. Therefore > one who wants to upload must communicate and not just do as (s)he pleased > without even sending an email to those who migh be aware of specifics and > situation. > > We are all here to help each other but let's not forget about importance of > communication. > > -- > Cheers, > Dmitry Smirnov. > > --- > > Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. > -- H. L. Mencken > -- Best regards, Michael ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 12:34:28 AM Alexandre Viau wrote: > As I have only received positive feedback, I suppose you can not count my late reply as positive feedback... > I wanted to go ahead and update the pkg-go policy Can we wait a little longer for feedback please? There were no discussion of new policy... -- Regards, Dmitry Smirnov. --- To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence. -- Friedrich Nietzsche signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 11:06:18 AM Alexandre Viau wrote: > In order to accelerate cooperation, I would like for us to be able to > upload other's packages without having to ask for permission. > > The current policy states that is is strongly recommended to ask > maintainers for permission. That's right, when you intended to upload a package it is polite and useful to notify uploaders and give them some time to respond. You can do team uploads even when you are not listed among Uploaders but you have to let other uploaders know. It won't hurt to wait a little in case Uploader(s) have any objections. > I propose that we change the policy like so: > > - putting the team in the Maintainers field is a strong statement that > fully collaborative maintenance is preferred. Anyone can commit to the > git repository and upload as needed. A courtesy email to Uploaders can > be nice but not required. It makes me feel uncomfortable if team wants to maintain everything without notifying each other. There are people with different level of competence and some packages are more sensitive than others. What you suggest is to ignore Uploaders. If you are one of the Uploaders then feel free to upload at your discression. But when you are not, a courtesy email is a must. You can go ahead and upload anyway but team maintenance should encourage communication rather than mandate a blanket uploading rights for everything. -- Regards, Dmitry Smirnov. --- It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. -- Winston Churchill signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
Re: [pkg-go] Fwd: Updating the pkg-go Team Maintenance policy
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:51:22 AM Michael Stapelberg wrote: > Dmitry, can you please outline what it is that you dislike about the > suggestion? Too much freedom to upload without notifying those who are responsible for package. Lack of notion that Team upload is a rough equivalent to NMU hence notification is a must as well as delay (through DELAYED queue or other means). Alexandre wants to ensure that everyone can upload everything without talking but team maintenance should be more about communication. For example one might want to upload new upstream release of a package without telling Uploaders. But new release may not be uploaded for reason like when Uploaders (who presumably follow upstream development) are aware of regression or disruptive change in new release and prefer to wait for update. In number of cases upload can be held by known upstream bugs etc. Therefore one who wants to upload must communicate and not just do as (s)he pleased without even sending an email to those who migh be aware of specifics and situation. We are all here to help each other but let's not forget about importance of communication. -- Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov. --- Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H. L. Mencken signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Pkg-go-maintainers mailing list Pkg-go-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-go-maintainers
