Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 11.08.2011 19:12, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: My god, how can one be so ignorant and disrespectful as to not listen to the arguments put forward (or ask if those are not understood). Talking about arguments, I have two arguments in the form of users that have reported real issues with the morituri package. Your first argument was to blame the user for not using aptitude for upgrades. This turned out as bullshit, because even aptitude does not remove packages that still satisfy dependencies. And since the morituri package currently only depends on unversioned python, this dependency is even satisfied by python2.3, so why remove it. The second user did use aptitude for his upgrade but obviously still faced the same issue. Then you told this user about some alleged policy that requires to remove old packages that are not part of the distribution anymore on upgrades. As a matter of fact, this policy does not exist. Nothing requires me to remove python2.3 on upgrades if it is not maintained in Debian anymore. I can keep python2.3 as long as I want, nothing forbids this. So what should lead to a removal of python2.3 on upgrades if not package dependencies? It is packages like morituri with imprecise dependencies that break upgrades for our users. You say that It is beneficial to Debian to keep package dependencies as simple as possible. Generally I agree, but I'd also say it is even more benefical to try as hard as possible not to break things - even possibly unsupported corner cases. All it took me to fix this issue was a bit of investigation [1] and changing six (!) bytes in the Debian packaging. If you cannot live with others applying such tiny changes to your pet packages, you shouldn't have them team-maintained! - Fabian [1] For example in the Debian Python Policy, which BTW states: The keyword all means that the package supports any Python version available but might be deprecated in the future since using version numbers is clearer than all and encodes more information. http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-12 at 09:27am, Fabian Greffrath wrote: Your first argument was to blame the user for not using aptitude for upgrades. This turned out as bullshit, because even aptitude does not remove packages that still satisfy dependencies. I apologize for adding irrelevant and distracting noise to the bugreport. What was irrelevant and distracting was the hints on how to use aptitude. My intention of post #10 of this bugreport was to point out the ability of aptitude in fullscreen mode to spot and easily get rid of old cruft no longer part of nor supported by Debian. Also, if aptitude was used also earlier on then only if the python2.3 package was explicitly installed would it be kept around, else it would have been automatically removed when no other packages depended on it. I acknowledge that my post was crappy in not clearly passing along that message. I also acknowledge that my post could even be (mis)interpreted as rude and cynical and talking down to our users. I apologize for that. And since the morituri package currently only depends on unversioned python, this dependency is even satisfied by python2.3, so why remove it. The reason for removing python2.3 is that this package was dropped before oldstable. Debian supports migrations upwards from one release to the next, not longer stretches than that. Or so I believe... [...] some alleged policy that requires to remove old packages that are not part of the distribution anymore on upgrades. ...and you clearly have a different opinion. As a matter of fact, this policy does not exist. I am not surprised that it is not explicitly written in Debian Policy. Nothing requires me to remove python2.3 on upgrades if it is not maintained in Debian anymore. I can keep python2.3 as long as I want, nothing forbids this. I am, however, surprised if you consider mixture of e.g. stable and oldoldstable a system supported by Debian. I consider it unsupported even though sometimes technically possible. So what should lead to a removal of python2.3 on upgrades if not package dependencies? Manual cleanup after a succesful upgrade to a newer release. ...or automated cleanup during upgrade by use of aptitude (i.e. not only for the upgrade but also at the time of that python2.3 package getting pulled in). It is packages like morituri with imprecise dependencies that break upgrades for our users. ...in your opinion. In my opinion we should help our users understand that mixtures of different releases/branches/suites of Debian is unsupported. You say that It is beneficial to Debian to keep package dependencies as simple as possible. Generally I agree, but I'd also say it is even more benefical to try as hard as possible not to break things - even possibly unsupported corner cases. So you like simplest possible, but favor complexity by tracking unusual corner cases - including extremes of unsupported cases. All it took me to fix this issue was a bit of investigation [1] and changing six (!) bytes in the Debian packaging. uhm, yes. I perfectly agre with you that your proposed change consisted of a few bytes, and that it did not require much effort to come up with that change. Don't see the point of you stating that, though. If you cannot live with others applying such tiny changes to your pet packages, you shouldn't have them team-maintained! You claim it is a tiny change, I do not. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
People, please lets keep it civil. On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 09:49, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: You say that It is beneficial to Debian to keep package dependencies as simple as possible. Generally I agree, but I'd also say it is even more benefical to try as hard as possible not to break things - even possibly unsupported corner cases. So you like simplest possible, but favor complexity by tracking unusual corner cases - including extremes of unsupported cases. snip If you cannot live with others applying such tiny changes to your pet packages, you shouldn't have them team-maintained! You claim it is a tiny change, I do not. All decisions have costs and benefits. In this particular case, the cost is having to specify a minimum required python version. The benefit is that people with unsupported old cruft in their system will continue to have a working system, and it may even enable them to remove said old cruft from the system. Jonas, why do you claim it is not a tiny change? In this case it is a 1 line patch that requires no maintainance. -- Saludos, Felipe Sateler ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-12 at 01:27pm, Felipe Sateler wrote: People, please lets keep it civil. Certainly. IF that remark was addressed to me, I would appreciate having it spelled out how I failed to do so (in private email if you prefer - I ask to honestly learn, not to discuss or claim innoscence). On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 09:49, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: If you cannot live with others applying such tiny changes to your pet packages, you shouldn't have them team-maintained! You claim it is a tiny change, I do not. [snip] Jonas, why do you claim it is not a tiny change? In this case it is a 1 line patch that requires no maintainance. I do not claim it is not a tiny change. In fact I wrote so explicitly: I perfectly agre with you that your proposed change consisted of a few bytes I can live with others applying tiny (and big) changes. My reason for disagreeing is another than the size of the change. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 08.08.2011 09:38, schrieb Reinhard Tartler: Does your proposed change to debian/pycompat fix it? If yes, just apply the change and let's be done with it. There was already a XS-Python-Version field in debian/control that said all, which is obviously wrong when it fails with python2.3. So I changed it to = 2.4 which should be the smallest possible diff to fix this issue and also satisfy Jonas. ;) ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-11 at 11:24am, Fabian Greffrath wrote: Am 08.08.2011 09:38, schrieb Reinhard Tartler: Does your proposed change to debian/pycompat fix it? If yes, just apply the change and let's be done with it. There was already a XS-Python-Version field in debian/control that said all, which is obviously wrong when it fails with python2.3. So I changed it to = 2.4 which should be the smallest possible diff to fix this issue and also satisfy Jonas. ;) No. All versions (available in Debian) indeed satisfies the package needs. It is beneficial to Debian to keep package dependencies as simple as possible. NB! Please post to the bugreport, not (directly) to the list. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 11.08.2011 11:34, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: No. All versions (available in Debian) indeed satisfies the package needs. My god, how can one be so stubborn! ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-11 at 01:21pm, Fabian Greffrath wrote: Am 11.08.2011 11:34, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: No. All versions (available in Debian) indeed satisfies the package needs. My god, how can one be so stubborn! My god, how can one be so ignorant and disrespectful as to not listen to the arguments put forward (or ask if those are not understood). - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 07.08.2011 13:08, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: I therefore see no reason to elevate this particular to be a general issue for Debian. I do. Are you fine with escalating this issue on -devel? - Fabian ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-08 at 09:19am, Fabian Greffrath wrote: Am 07.08.2011 13:08, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: I therefore see no reason to elevate this particular to be a general issue for Debian. I do. Are you fine with escalating this issue on -devel? Not exactly fine - I find it annoying, but do what you must. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 08.08.2011 09:38, schrieb Reinhard Tartler: Does your proposed change to debian/pycompat fix it? If yes, just apply the change and let's be done with it. If not, what would need to be done to fix this properly? Then we could start arguing if fixing it was worth the efford. To be honest, I have not tried it out (I consider this the maintainer's duty), I just had a brief look into the python policy. ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 08.08.2011 10:44, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: We do not solve this issue by educating Debian packages more widely about weird possible combinations of packages: Debian support upgrades one stable release at a time - Debian do *not* support keeping around old packages! It is exact this point that I abut on. Is this principle documented somewhere, e.g. in Debian policy? ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-08 at 11:07am, Fabian Greffrath wrote: Am 08.08.2011 10:44, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: We do not solve this issue by educating Debian packages more widely about weird possible combinations of packages: Debian support upgrades one stable release at a time - Debian do *not* support keeping around old packages! It is exact this point that I abut on. Is this principle documented somewhere, e.g. in Debian policy? Good question. I don't know if it is written down explicitly. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On 11-08-06 at 12:38pm, A. Costa wrote: On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:23:20 +0200 Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Closing *again* as a non-bug. I follow, but here's my 2 cents from userland... If a 'python2.3' package existed in the current Debian distros, then this bug could be moved to that package. No 'python2.3' package currently exists in Debian. Must it therefore follow, (as has been argued), that there is no install bug? At least two users have been bitten, and have registered their doubts. Bug #630787 seems to be a systemic Debian meta bug, where incomplete or inaccurate metadata from an unmaintained ex-package _breaks_ the install for a current package update. From userland it's hard to see why such breakage should ever be allowed. If such a 'ghostly influence' meta bug already exists, then #630787 should be merged with it. If such a meta bug does not exist, then #630787 should be moved and renamed to the appropriate meta package. Otherwise we can expect that future maintainers will needlessly be distracted by users with similarly misdirected bug reports, perhaps forever... In my opinion... a) Failure to install a Debian package on a system contaminated by non-Debian packages is not a Debian bug but a broken local system. b) Packages dropped before oldstable are non-Debian in the context of a). I therefore see no reason to elevate this particular to be a general issue for Debian. I do find it reasonable to file _another_ bug (of severity wishlist) against python to suggest having it conflict against versions of Python no longer supported by Debian. I do not want to file such bug myself, though. I also find it reasonable to file _another_ bug against current Python releases to ensure that they do not trigger (re)compilation of modules when the python version is removed but not purged (if that is the real problem experienced here). This obviously won't solve the experienced issue for that old obsolete version of Python but might help avoid similar issues in the future. I also find it reasonable to file _another_ bug against debian-release to suggest emphasizing in release notes that all non-installed packages be purged as a finishing step of an upgrade (again assuming the actual issue experienced here was one of non-purged rather than non-removed Python package). Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:23:20 +0200 Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Closing *again* as a non-bug. I follow, but here's my 2 cents from userland... If a 'python2.3' package existed in the current Debian distros, then this bug could be moved to that package. No 'python2.3' package currently exists in Debian. Must it therefore follow, (as has been argued), that there is no install bug? At least two users have been bitten, and have registered their doubts. Bug #630787 seems to be a systemic Debian meta bug, where incomplete or inaccurate metadata from an unmaintained ex-package _breaks_ the install for a current package update. From userland it's hard to see why such breakage should ever be allowed. If such a 'ghostly influence' meta bug already exists, then #630787 should be merged with it. If such a meta bug does not exist, then #630787 should be moved and renamed to the appropriate meta package. Otherwise we can expect that future maintainers will needlessly be distracted by users with similarly misdirected bug reports, perhaps forever... ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Am 28.07.2011 19:35, schrieb A. Costa: For the record, I've had this same install bug for about a month, even when installing with 'aptitude': [...] So the bug is real enough. Last month F. Greffrath advised: Adding = 2.4 in debian/pycompat Assuming that would help, why not do it? Jonas? ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Bug#630787: can not update/install morituri because of a syntaxerror
Package: morituri Version: 0.1.2-1 Followup-For: Bug #630787 For the record, I've had this same install bug for about a month, even when installing with 'aptitude': % aptitude install morituri ; echo $? The following NEW packages will be installed: morituri 0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 972 not upgraded. Need to get 0 B/101 kB of archives. After unpacking 578 kB will be used. Selecting previously deselected package morituri. (Reading database ... 285392 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking morituri (from .../morituri_0.1.2-1_all.deb) ... Processing triggers for man-db ... Setting up morituri (0.1.2-1) ... /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/common/checksum.py:245: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up checksum = 0x /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/common/checksum.py:259: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up checksum = 0x /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/image/table.py:506: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up discId1 = 0x /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/image/table.py:507: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up discId2 = 0x Compiling /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/rip/accurip.py ... File /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/rip/accurip.py, line 75 highest = max(d['confidence'] for d in entries) ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax pycentral: pycentral pkginstall: error byte-compiling files (52) pycentral pkginstall: error byte-compiling files (52) dpkg: error processing morituri (--configure): subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 configured to not write apport reports Errors were encountered while processing: morituri E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) A package failed to install. Trying to recover: Setting up morituri (0.1.2-1) ... Compiling /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/rip/accurip.py ... File /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/morituri/rip/accurip.py, line 75 highest = max(d['confidence'] for d in entries) ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax pycentral: pycentral pkginstall: error byte-compiling files (42) pycentral pkginstall: error byte-compiling files (42) dpkg: error processing morituri (--configure): subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: morituri 255 So the bug is real enough. Last month F. Greffrath advised: Adding = 2.4 in debian/pycompat Assuming that would help, why not do it? Fix for users. Uninstall versions of 'python' lower than '2.4': # 'dglob' is from the 'debian-goodies' package % aptitude remove `dglob -r '^python[0-2].[0-3]$'` ...then wait for the '[y/n] prompt and see that 'aptitude' doesn't remove too much. If the removal list isn't ruinous, and the 'remove' goes well, then 'morituri' should install correctly: % aptitude install morituri HTH... -- System Information: Debian Release: wheezy/sid APT prefers unstable APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: i386 (i686) Kernel: Linux 2.6.38-2-686 (SMP w/2 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968) (ignored: LC_ALL set to C) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages morituri depends on: ii cdparanoia 3.10.2+debian-10 audio extraction tool for sampling ii cdrdao 1:1.2.3-0.1 records CDs in Disk-At-Once (DAO) ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-g 0.10.24-1GStreamer plugins from the good ii python 2.6.6-14 interactive high-level object-orie ii python-cddb 1.4-5.1+b3 Python interface to CD-IDs and Fre ii python-central 0.6.17 register and build utility for Pyt ii python-gobject 2.28.3-3 Python bindings for the GObject li ii python-gst0.10 0.10.21-2.1 generic media-playing framework (P ii python-gtk2 2.24.0-1 Python bindings for the GTK+ widge ii python-musicbrainz2 0.7.3-1 interface to the MusicBrainz XML w ii python-pkg-resources0.6.16-1 Package Discovery and Resource Acc Versions of
