[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #1 from Nate Graham --- Created attachment 106127 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=106127&action=edit Breeze original low-contrast text -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #2 from Nate Graham --- Created attachment 106128 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=106128&action=edit Breeze with higher-contrast text -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added CC||pointedst...@zoho.com --- Comment #3 from Nate Graham --- It's worth mentioning that reviewers have noted Breeze's lack of sufficient text contrast. For example: http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/02/17/the-state-of-plasma/ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 Sebastian Kügler changed: What|Removed |Added CC||se...@kde.org Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WONTFIX --- Comment #4 from Sebastian Kügler --- Thanks Nate, for the thoughful bug report! We have chosen these colors very thoroughly. The grey tints instead of black and white were chosen so these contrasts don't look too hard on the eye. In the end, this boils down to a matter of taste, and that's ultimately the reason why changing color schemes in Plasma is so easy, one person's perfect color scheme isn't necessary everybody else's, and it also depends on the display hardware used. What you could do is create a cloned color scheme and use that, you can even upload it to store.kde.org to make it easily available to others. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #5 from Jens Reuterberg --- I have to agree with Sebas here: the choice is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't level" - the harsh contrasts would make many users feel as if the experience is worse... I am not trying to wave you away of course - you are more than right there are many users who find the theme too vague but as there is a contrast colour scheme of Breeze Dark it feels as if its kinda covered. On Friday, 16 June 2017 17.46.16 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 > > Nate Graham changed: > >What|Removed |Added > > CC||pointedst...@zoho.com > > --- Comment #3 from Nate Graham --- > It's worth mentioning that reviewers have noted Breeze's lack of sufficient > text contrast. For example: > http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/02/17/the-state-of-plasma/ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED Resolution|WONTFIX |--- --- Comment #6 from Nate Graham --- Thanks for the comments, everyone. I have to disagree that this is a matter of subjectivity or taste--this is just my preference and other people might not like it. There are objective, scientifically derived principles governing things like eyestrain and readability: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/low-contrast/ http://www.tinhat.com/usability/color.html http://contrastrebellion.com/ http://universalusability.com/access_by_design/text/contrast.html >From the above articles, you can see that the *most* readable, usable text is 100% black on a not-quite-100%-white background, since pure white can be blinding on bright screens. Breeze is *so close* with the pleasant light gray backgrounds, but the text itself needs to be a bit bolder to reap the rewards of maximum readability. This will not present a "harsh" contrast; on the contrary, it will make the text *more attractive*, not less. Again, this is not my personal preference, but rather the result of decades of hard-earned usability investigation. I encourage you to read those articles. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #7 from Jens Reuterberg --- You do have a good point. Perfect black on light-light grey is the preferred one... (although as a print-monkey I need to say "Bright Yellow on Dark Grey" or the other print monkeys may get angry ;) ) I worry about the inverted colour scheme though and icon effects. I propose this - lets create a secondary theme and then try to do some proper testing. I mean the tricky bit is tying up the bag as it where (because we don't want #00 background for breeze dark) as the colour scheme is such a huge chunk of the identity in so many other areas (from mascots to print material, webpages etc) - will the gain from swapping to #00 in readability justify eventual issues there? Or am I just bikeshedding? We also need to see if we are creating a huge problem for the developers in the future... so we would need to have a dev in on it to supervise so we don't create a mess Sebas (et al) can we sort of hold off on this while we drag poor Nate into the VDG room for a chat? On Sunday, 18 June 2017 15.42.54 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 > > Nate Graham changed: > >What|Removed |Added > > Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED > Resolution|WONTFIX |--- > > --- Comment #6 from Nate Graham --- > Thanks for the comments, everyone. > > I have to disagree that this is a matter of subjectivity or taste--this is > just my preference and other people might not like it. There are objective, > scientifically derived principles governing things like eyestrain and > readability: > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/low-contrast/ > http://www.tinhat.com/usability/color.html > http://contrastrebellion.com/ > http://universalusability.com/access_by_design/text/contrast.html > > From the above articles, you can see that the *most* readable, usable text > is 100% black on a not-quite-100%-white background, since pure white can be > blinding on bright screens. Breeze is *so close* with the pleasant light > gray backgrounds, but the text itself needs to be a bit bolder to reap the > rewards of maximum readability. This will not present a "harsh" contrast; > on the contrary, it will make the text *more attractive*, not less. Again, > this is not my personal preference, but rather the result of decades of > hard-earned usability investigation. I encourage you to read those > articles. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #8 from Nate Graham --- I've submitted a patch for this: https://phabricator.kde.org/D7424 IMHO increasing the contrast in the manner I've indicated makes it easier to read and easier on the eyes, not harder. Black text on a light gray background is not in the least bit "harsh." On the contrary, it's very readable. But the less black the text is, the less so this becomes; it become muddier and harder to read, increasing eyestrain. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 Nate Graham changed: What|Removed |Added Flags||Usability+ -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 --- Comment #9 from Nate Graham --- Created attachment 107749 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=107749&action=edit Darker text on alternating row backgrounds (e.g. Dolphin Details view) Attaching a screenshot showing the darker text on alternating row backgrounds (e.g. Dolphin Details view). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 Sebastian Kügler changed: What|Removed |Added Assignee|plasma-devel@kde.org|plasma-b...@kde.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
Re: [Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
I have to agree with Sebas here: the choice is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't level" - the harsh contrasts would make many users feel as if the experience is worse... I am not trying to wave you away of course - you are more than right there are many users who find the theme too vague but as there is a contrast colour scheme of Breeze Dark it feels as if its kinda covered. On Friday, 16 June 2017 17.46.16 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 > > Nate Graham changed: > >What|Removed |Added > > CC||pointedst...@zoho.com > > --- Comment #3 from Nate Graham --- > It's worth mentioning that reviewers have noted Breeze's lack of sufficient > text contrast. For example: > http://www.ocsmag.com/2017/02/17/the-state-of-plasma/
Re: [Breeze] [Bug 381288] Breeze could use higher-contrast text by default (tweaked color scheme attached)
You do have a good point. Perfect black on light-light grey is the preferred one... (although as a print-monkey I need to say "Bright Yellow on Dark Grey" or the other print monkeys may get angry ;) ) I worry about the inverted colour scheme though and icon effects. I propose this - lets create a secondary theme and then try to do some proper testing. I mean the tricky bit is tying up the bag as it where (because we don't want #00 background for breeze dark) as the colour scheme is such a huge chunk of the identity in so many other areas (from mascots to print material, webpages etc) - will the gain from swapping to #00 in readability justify eventual issues there? Or am I just bikeshedding? We also need to see if we are creating a huge problem for the developers in the future... so we would need to have a dev in on it to supervise so we don't create a mess Sebas (et al) can we sort of hold off on this while we drag poor Nate into the VDG room for a chat? On Sunday, 18 June 2017 15.42.54 CEST Nate Graham wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=381288 > > Nate Graham changed: > >What|Removed |Added > > Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED > Resolution|WONTFIX |--- > > --- Comment #6 from Nate Graham --- > Thanks for the comments, everyone. > > I have to disagree that this is a matter of subjectivity or taste--this is > just my preference and other people might not like it. There are objective, > scientifically derived principles governing things like eyestrain and > readability: > > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/low-contrast/ > http://www.tinhat.com/usability/color.html > http://contrastrebellion.com/ > http://universalusability.com/access_by_design/text/contrast.html > > From the above articles, you can see that the *most* readable, usable text > is 100% black on a not-quite-100%-white background, since pure white can be > blinding on bright screens. Breeze is *so close* with the pleasant light > gray backgrounds, but the text itself needs to be a bit bolder to reap the > rewards of maximum readability. This will not present a "harsh" contrast; > on the contrary, it will make the text *more attractive*, not less. Again, > this is not my personal preference, but rather the result of decades of > hard-earned usability investigation. I encourage you to read those > articles.
