Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On Monday 05 April 2010 21:52:18 Chani wrote: a funny thing... it actually wasn't until the end of tokamak 3 that I realised it was someone in plasma writing the dot articles for tokamak. I guess I assumed that magical fairies did all that writing ;) I actually wrote a lot of text both for the second Oxygen meeting and the Tokamak I, both of which I organized. The result was that I spent all the time that remained from the organization in reporting, and my personal meeting was really non productive. Then, I was really unexperienced in organizing events and handling such things, but still... I am unfortunately not able to help you this time, sebas, but for next events if somebody gives me a hand I will make sure that reporting becomes one of my main tasks. I don't write much code at these events anyways, as I tend to do ideas sharing, planning and concept discussion... :) This is not a one man job though, so if somebody else can help we can make sure that the meeting remains enjoyable for everyone... Bye, -Riccardo -- Pace Peace Paix Paz Frieden Pax Pokój Friður Fred Béke 和平 Hasiti Lapé Hetep Malu Mир Wolakota Santiphap Irini Peoch שלום Shanti Vrede Baris Rój Mír Taika Rongo Sulh Mir Py'guapy 평화 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
since I'm currently thinking about everything *except* my midterm, here's a few notes on activities from a what happened at tokamak perspective. -I met with kwin people to talk about how to show only the relevant windows -me, ivan, kwin people and some other people discussed and figured out an API for programs to ask about and control activities (this was one of the two big activities meetings). -me and lubos talked about session management stuff (and then I spent a fair bit of time alone with a whiteboard, figuring out what I actually *wanted* from sessions). I still haven't had time to check whether my theories can work, though; that's 4.6+ stuff. -we presented the activity API to the rest of tokamak, discussed and improved it -aaron and me and... design guy from the other side of canada... and probably some other people discussed the plasma activity-manager UI and drew mockups n'stuff -ivan did some hacking on the API -I started hacking on the UI there are blog posts from both me and ivan about activities, too. -- This message brought to you by eevil bananas and the number 3. www.chani3.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
hey, On Sunday 04 April 2010 23:34:40 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On April 4, 2010, Sebastian Kügler wrote: For Tokamak 4, I'm still looking for someone to write an article about the work on activities that has been done there. I've not followed these sessions myself, and I'm also having a hard time to wrap my head around the topic on mailing list discussions. That means that someone else has to write this article. as you already know, this one is on my plate. and i actually have time for it now that the javascript jam is all but wrapped up. i'll get it done in the next few days. I didn't know that, last time I asked you made clear to me that you were too busy, so my impression was that it remained on my plate. Glad to hear I misunderstood though, thanks for taking it on. Looking forward to reading the article, as an interested user. :) Also, please don't forget that by asking the KDE e.V. for sponsoring this event (which has been the most expensive (non-Akademy) developer meeting in its history so far) we agreed to properly report on what we're doing and what has been achieved during the meeting. to be perfectly frank, phrasing it in terms of KDE e.V. gives us more money, now you have to provide more documentatin on the other side is not the most useful way for the board to go about it. i also find it very distasteful how we are fairly constantly reminded how this was the most expensive meeting, as if we got away with something here or don't deserve it. this is especially galling as it isn't about deserving or not deserving at all. it's about investing where we think it's worthwhile to do so. i'd be completely fine if the board decided not to invest as much financial capital in Tokamak, and i've said so in previous emails. but when the board does put out that money, do not tie such strings to it. Well, we talked about this before Tokamak 4 with the board, and we agreed that so many things happen during such a sprint, that more than one post-sprint Dot story would be good to reflect that in the public perception. Initally, the idea was to do one article per subsprint, Plasma, KWin, Oxygen. I've changed this idea to do topical stories since that reflects much better how we work during Tokamak. KDE e.V. is not contracting out or investing in a third party. we are investing in ourselves. and the people we are investing in already give an amazing amount to the community and world at large through their efforts in KDE it would be good to treat it like that rather than use this is our (KDE e.V.'s) money, now you (contributors to KDE) earn it language. Maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but I really wrote this email as a Plasma team member asking fellow teammates for help, that's why I didn't CC: the board in the first place. If it came over like Board dude says: Plasma has to pay back the KDE e.V. with Dot stories, that at least wasn't my intention. I really don't think you need to tell me though how much contributors put into KDE, and how we cannot demand more. That feels ... backward given that I've invested muchos time in all of Plasma, Tokamak and KDE e.V.. Spreading the effort to make this whole system work is much needed. personally, i'd position it more as a here are the commitments we make to ourselves when use our resources to hold these events. this gives us a good way to measure our own progress, communicate our exciting developments to the outside world and reassure our investors that they are doing the right thing. this puts the us-them line outside of KDE (it's KDE and the public; KDE and our investors). the result is that it will create a lot less stress between people inside KDE since we will be working together on it, rather than trying to meet the expectations of our task masters. I agree I should've made the we do cool stuff, now let's also tell people who weren't there, but then it wasn't the first time I asked around, so to me, maybe a clearer I really need some help here, guys seemed more promising. yes, it's the same end result in either case, but these things actually do matter when trying to get people to do things in a timely manner with quality. putting pressure will also have the reverse effect desired here, i think. unless, of course, the desire is to do fewer and smaller KDE developer sprints in the future. (that's a valid goal, perhaps, depending on the budget expetations) Well, yes, but that's only indirectly related (no reporting - no justification for sponsor money - no sprints due to lack of funds). It's a consequence though, not a goal. as it stands, i've already personally decided that the next tokamak will be dramatically smaller. i said as much to kevin on one of the days at T4 when he and i went for a walk to discuss various matters related to KDE. a smaller even will be easier to manage, we won't have to go looking for resources that quite evidently are
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On Sunday 04 April 2010 23:50:57 Marco Martin wrote: On Sunday 04 April 2010, Sebastian Kügler wrote: Now the nice thing is that Tokamak 4 really was a blast, and that we've achieved a lot. And because of the size and variety of topics, I've decided to do the Tokamak 4 reporting on the Dot in a series of installments rather than in one big article. The work around hardware integration has already published (perhaps you've seen it on the Dot), an article about Plasma mobile is forthcoming (draft version on my disk, needs illustrating, links etc.). Then a friendly chap from kde-promo is still need something on the plasma mobile one? just ask :) can refine text make screenshots, photos/videos of the one device i still have... I think I've enough information about Plasma Mobile (from blogs, for example), but also because I was following it more closely. It's really the activity stuff I have no idea of. Which is why someone else is needed to chip in, I think it's a pretty important topic. Thanks for the offer though, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On Sunday 04 April 2010, 18:50 Marco Martin wrote: still need something on the plasma mobile one? just ask :) can refine text make screenshots, photos/videos of the one device i still have... Probably I can help Marco and Alexis with the mobile stuff too. We did a blog storm about plasma-mobile as soon as T4 finished explaining all the stuff. We had blogs about the high level stuff as well as the low level. But if you need more, just tell us :) Aaron, let me know if I can help anything too :) Cheers! -- Artur Duque de Souza openBossa INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia -- Blog: http://blog.morpheuz.cc PGP: 0xDBEEAAC3 @ wwwkeys.pgp.net -- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
Let me add my point of view to this discussion. We are in the wonderful position that KDE e.V. is able to support developer meetings, so that those dedicated people who are working on KDE can meet to get amazing stuff done. I see that as removing obstacles and enabling KDE contributors to make best use of their time, passion and skills. We all know how much of a difference it makes to meet in person, and all of us who had the opportunity to attend a KDE sprint know of that special atmosphere it is to meet these KDE people you only knew via email or IRC in person. It's still amazing to me, that these meetings always feel like meeting old friends, even if you have never met in real life before. This demonstrates on what a high level of community we operate. In the last years we have greatly increased the number size and frequency of developer sprints in KDE. This is a fantastic result of a lot of good work which happened in the community which makes it worthwhile in the eyes of many people to invest in sprints. This is great, and I think we should do whatever we can do to sustain it, even if it takes an increasingly bigger effort in times of financial and organizational resources. One very important aspect of this is that we have to raise money for sprints, and for doing this we need to convince people that it's a good thing to invest in them. So as we are doing all these great sprints, we have a tremendous opportunity here simply by showing what happened at these sprints and communicating some bit of the special atmosphere, the frantic productivity, how these events breed ideas, visions, and great technology. It's a waste, if we don't make use of this opportunity. So I think we should happily go the extra step of creating some reports and telling the world about what happened. This shouldn't feel like an obligation. It's a natural extension of what we are doing at these sprints. It's an essential part of our culture and the way we work. It's an important part of sharing, which is the essence of free software in general, and KDE in particular. So let's do this as a group, community, sprint participants and organizers, e.V. members and board. Let's just get this done, and make sure our sprints are visible and reflected well in our communication. On Sunday 04 April 2010 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On April 4, 2010, Sebastian Kügler wrote: For Tokamak 4, I'm still looking for someone to write an article about the work on activities that has been done there. I've not followed these sessions myself, and I'm also having a hard time to wrap my head around the topic on mailing list discussions. That means that someone else has to write this article. as you already know, this one is on my plate. and i actually have time for it now that the javascript jam is all but wrapped up. i'll get it done in the next few days. Also, please don't forget that by asking the KDE e.V. for sponsoring this event (which has been the most expensive (non-Akademy) developer meeting in its history so far) we agreed to properly report on what we're doing and what has been achieved during the meeting. to be perfectly frank, phrasing it in terms of KDE e.V. gives us more money, now you have to provide more documentatin on the other side is not the most useful way for the board to go about it. i also find it very distasteful how we are fairly constantly reminded how this was the most expensive meeting, as if we got away with something here or don't deserve it. this is especially galling as it isn't about deserving or not deserving at all. it's about investing where we think it's worthwhile to do so. i'd be completely fine if the board decided not to invest as much financial capital in Tokamak, and i've said so in previous emails. but when the board does put out that money, do not tie such strings to it. KDE e.V. is not contracting out or investing in a third party. we are investing in ourselves. and the people we are investing in already give an amazing amount to the community and world at large through their efforts in KDE it would be good to treat it like that rather than use this is our (KDE e.V.'s) money, now you (contributors to KDE) earn it language. personally, i'd position it more as a here are the commitments we make to ourselves when use our resources to hold these events. this gives us a good way to measure our own progress, communicate our exciting developments to the outside world and reassure our investors that they are doing the right thing. this puts the us-them line outside of KDE (it's KDE and the public; KDE and our investors). the result is that it will create a lot less stress between people inside KDE since we will be working together on it, rather than trying to meet the expectations of our task masters. yes, it's the same end result in either case, but these things actually do matter when trying to get people to do
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On April 5, 2010, Cornelius Schumacher wrote: world about what happened. This shouldn't feel like an obligation. It's a natural extension of what we are doing at these sprints. It's an essential part of our culture and the way we work. It's an important part of sharing, which is the essence of free software in general, and KDE in particular. So let's do this as a group, community, sprint participants and organizers, e.V. members and board. Let's just get this done, and make sure our sprints are visible and reflected well in our communication. thanks, Cornelius. i perceive this as a tremendously progressive way to approach it. :) -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
a funny thing... it actually wasn't until the end of tokamak 3 that I realised it was someone in plasma writing the dot articles for tokamak. I guess I assumed that magical fairies did all that writing ;) now, I can be rather oblivious to simple things like that at times... so maybe it's just me... but it seems like the we need dot articles thing could have been communicated more clearly, earlier. skimming back through archives, I don't see any threads on this mailing list mentioning the need to write tokamak4 dot articles around the time tokamak4 ended. and asking people who are already overwhelmed to do more things doesn't work very well. may I suggest that next tokamak, someone asks the mailing list for volunteers to write articles? I mean, it doesn't guarantee responses, but surely it can't hurt... .. for that matter, do we have a laundry-list of things that have to be done for a sprint anywhere? ... erg. we have a stub, and a blog link: http://community.kde.org/KDE_e.V./Sprints#Sprint_HOWTO it's about how to start a sprint, not about how to finish it... hmmm. -- This message brought to you by eevil bananas and the number 3. www.chani3.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
I think for the Plasma-Mobile work we communicate quite well, total of 4 blog posts right after the event. And one more after Bossa (2 weeks after Tokamak). I agree that Sebas should not be alone for it. I'm really bad to write articles (i'm a dev) but if someone need videos/picture of Plasma-Mobile on the N900 just drop me an email. Anyway thanks to people. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Chani chan...@gmail.com wrote: a funny thing... it actually wasn't until the end of tokamak 3 that I realised it was someone in plasma writing the dot articles for tokamak. I guess I assumed that magical fairies did all that writing ;) now, I can be rather oblivious to simple things like that at times... so maybe it's just me... but it seems like the we need dot articles thing could have been communicated more clearly, earlier. skimming back through archives, I don't see any threads on this mailing list mentioning the need to write tokamak4 dot articles around the time tokamak4 ended. and asking people who are already overwhelmed to do more things doesn't work very well. may I suggest that next tokamak, someone asks the mailing list for volunteers to write articles? I mean, it doesn't guarantee responses, but surely it can't hurt... .. for that matter, do we have a laundry-list of things that have to be done for a sprint anywhere? ... erg. we have a stub, and a blog link: http://community.kde.org/KDE_e.V./Sprints#Sprint_HOWTO it's about how to start a sprint, not about how to finish it... hmmm. -- This message brought to you by eevil bananas and the number 3. www.chani3.com ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
Hey Tokamak 4 attendants, For Tokamak 4, I'm still looking for someone to write an article about the work on activities that has been done there. I've not followed these sessions myself, and I'm also having a hard time to wrap my head around the topic on mailing list discussions. That means that someone else has to write this article. This would also nicely show other's involvement with Tokamak 4 aftermath. I'm about to publish the second article in the next few days, with a third one to come (mostly video material). I've asked a couple of times one IRC for people to help me, with little useful response. I understand that people's time is limited, but so is mine and I've already been spending huge gobs of it on Tokamak organisation and aftermath, so it would be really nice if someone else can chip in here -- or maybe more than one person. Also, please don't forget that by asking the KDE e.V. for sponsoring this event (which has been the most expensive (non-Akademy) developer meeting in its history so far) we agreed to properly report on what we're doing and what has been achieved during the meeting. My personal stance (both as KDE e.V. Board member and Plasma hacker) is that we're lagging, again time-constraints on my side being the obvious reason, but then I've received very little in the sense of help with the work ahead, so I've been chipping away on it when my time allowed it. The bottom-line is that if we leave one person to do all the reporting towards the e.V., it'll be a lot harder to secure funding for the next Tokamak (which I've already decided to have someone else pull off, it's simply too time-intensive for me, with all the other KDE stuff on my plate). Firstly because we simply didn't meet the expectations of the KDE e.V. for sponsoring such an event, and secondly, because if we fail in reporting, it's harder to get companies to donate to the e.V. resulting in not enough available funds to fly everyone in to such an event. I don't want this to sound like a rant email and only be complaining, but fact is that I didn't receive any help from the Plasma team while this is the third time I ask for it. I get it, people are busy. But so am I. This worked for previous Tokamak's (I did those reporting bits for the other 3 already), but it won't work in the future, and it's falling apart right now as you can see. Now the nice thing is that Tokamak 4 really was a blast, and that we've achieved a lot. And because of the size and variety of topics, I've decided to do the Tokamak 4 reporting on the Dot in a series of installments rather than in one big article. The work around hardware integration has already published (perhaps you've seen it on the Dot), an article about Plasma mobile is forthcoming (draft version on my disk, needs illustrating, links etc.). Then a friendly chap from kde-promo is working on cutting and editing the video footage we brought (which was about 40GB of .dv files and ended up on my plate as well (good thing I found this guy to outsource at least that time- intensive work!). Concretely, what needs to be done is an illustrated article (just have a look at other sprint reports as examples) about the work on virtual desktops, activities and all the semantic stuff related to it. Explain the concepts, show screenshots, give examples, that kind of work. It doesn't need to be perfect in one go either, the group of Dot editors is usually very helpful in getting those things in shape, but the initial article has to be written by *someone*. Also, I'm sure there are more interesting things that would fall through the cracks, if someone is in for writing about that, this would be a real service to the rest of the team (I'm thinking about the JS animations, Plasmate progress, and what not, not things that would make a full article, but noteworthy nevertheless. Thanks for your help, and again, please bear with the if this email sounds a bit like complaining. Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On April 4, 2010, Sebastian Kügler wrote: For Tokamak 4, I'm still looking for someone to write an article about the work on activities that has been done there. I've not followed these sessions myself, and I'm also having a hard time to wrap my head around the topic on mailing list discussions. That means that someone else has to write this article. as you already know, this one is on my plate. and i actually have time for it now that the javascript jam is all but wrapped up. i'll get it done in the next few days. Also, please don't forget that by asking the KDE e.V. for sponsoring this event (which has been the most expensive (non-Akademy) developer meeting in its history so far) we agreed to properly report on what we're doing and what has been achieved during the meeting. to be perfectly frank, phrasing it in terms of KDE e.V. gives us more money, now you have to provide more documentatin on the other side is not the most useful way for the board to go about it. i also find it very distasteful how we are fairly constantly reminded how this was the most expensive meeting, as if we got away with something here or don't deserve it. this is especially galling as it isn't about deserving or not deserving at all. it's about investing where we think it's worthwhile to do so. i'd be completely fine if the board decided not to invest as much financial capital in Tokamak, and i've said so in previous emails. but when the board does put out that money, do not tie such strings to it. KDE e.V. is not contracting out or investing in a third party. we are investing in ourselves. and the people we are investing in already give an amazing amount to the community and world at large through their efforts in KDE it would be good to treat it like that rather than use this is our (KDE e.V.'s) money, now you (contributors to KDE) earn it language. personally, i'd position it more as a here are the commitments we make to ourselves when use our resources to hold these events. this gives us a good way to measure our own progress, communicate our exciting developments to the outside world and reassure our investors that they are doing the right thing. this puts the us-them line outside of KDE (it's KDE and the public; KDE and our investors). the result is that it will create a lot less stress between people inside KDE since we will be working together on it, rather than trying to meet the expectations of our task masters. yes, it's the same end result in either case, but these things actually do matter when trying to get people to do things in a timely manner with quality. putting pressure will also have the reverse effect desired here, i think. unless, of course, the desire is to do fewer and smaller KDE developer sprints in the future. (that's a valid goal, perhaps, depending on the budget expetations) as it stands, i've already personally decided that the next tokamak will be dramatically smaller. i said as much to kevin on one of the days at T4 when he and i went for a walk to discuss various matters related to KDE. a smaller even will be easier to manage, we won't have to go looking for resources that quite evidently are not there for us to use and we won't have to deal with the now you owe even more! stuff. My personal stance (both as KDE e.V. Board member and Plasma hacker) is that we're lagging, again time-constraints on my side being the obvious reason, but then I've received very little in the sense of help with the work ahead, so I've been chipping away on it when my time allowed it. The bottom-line is that and it's greatly appreciated. didn't meet the expectations of the KDE e.V. for sponsoring such an event, and secondly, because if we fail in reporting, it's harder to get companies to donate to the e.V. resulting in not enough available funds to fly everyone in to such an event. yes. however, we're (the people at the sprints) only the first step in the reporting chain. that we don't have quarterly reports coming out of KDE e.V. atm doesn't help. that http://ev.kde.org/activities/devmeetings/ lists no meetings for 2010 and only 3 in 2009 (none of which are Tokamaks) doesn't help either. already), but it won't work in the future, and it's falling apart right now as you can see. that's mildly dramatic, but i think we get your point. -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Qt Development Frameworks ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Dot article on activities needed, maybe more?
On Sunday 04 April 2010, Sebastian Kügler wrote: Now the nice thing is that Tokamak 4 really was a blast, and that we've achieved a lot. And because of the size and variety of topics, I've decided to do the Tokamak 4 reporting on the Dot in a series of installments rather than in one big article. The work around hardware integration has already published (perhaps you've seen it on the Dot), an article about Plasma mobile is forthcoming (draft version on my disk, needs illustrating, links etc.). Then a friendly chap from kde-promo is still need something on the plasma mobile one? just ask :) can refine text make screenshots, photos/videos of the one device i still have... Cheers, Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
