Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
On 10.06.2016 11:44, Alessandro Longo wrote: I like a lot the idea. I suggest to invite people to post their logos to visual-design mailing list, to to let them know that it exists. Sending an email with an attachment should be enough accessible for everyone and we will have a transparent process and a log of discussions. I would not do it on the mailing list. Subscribing to a mailing list is a bigger barrier for many than signing up on our forums, and previous design competitions have always taken place on the forums, so I'd do this one there as well. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
I like a lot the idea. I suggest to invite people to post their logos to visual-design mailing list, to to let them know that it exists. Sending an email with an attachment should be enough accessible for everyone and we will have a transparent process and a log of discussions. -- Alessandro Longo ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Il 09-06-2016 11:49 Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto: You posted a screenshot from your system on Google+ [1] where you use your proposed logo (although not in monochrome) as a launcher icon. This might have added to the confusion. [1] https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/photo/100036546744213767408/6287945369516307842 I was testing the logo and in the meanwhile I posted a screenshot to show an other thing, I didn't think this could make confusion, sorry. The post is on my Google+ stream, I think I should be able to post things freely on my Google+ stream or in my blog, without caring of people think is something official. This would be a problem also because of my posts "Plasma Tricks" that sometimes are very hackish and (I suppose) not so recommended by Plasma developers. So I hope we can clarify what we can post to make clear it's not "official". About people that thought my logo was reviewed by VDG, why didn't they speak directly in mailing list? I would have been happy to clarify it in that day. -- Alessandro Longo ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Of course! As a matter of fact, it would be interesting if we encouraged participants to provide any sources to freely remix, mash-up, and build on each-others entries. Make this a co-operative event. On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > On 09.06.2016 16:21, Ken Vermette wrote: > >> >> I don't want to sweep my stupidity under the rug, but I'd like to steer >> the conversation back to logo design; are there any thoughts on posting a >> community-oriented competition? I think it would be best if we collected a >> wealth of candidates and concepts while opening the door to new potential >> artists. Even if it doesn't yield a final logo, it could be a boon of ideas >> which could drive a final design; we could even expressly encourage raw >> sketches. >> >> I think this is a great idea and should be done right away! > Of course both Alex' and Uri's logo should also enter into the competition. > > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
On 09.06.2016 16:21, Ken Vermette wrote: I don't want to sweep my stupidity under the rug, but I'd like to steer the conversation back to logo design; are there any thoughts on posting a community-oriented competition? I think it would be best if we collected a wealth of candidates and concepts while opening the door to new potential artists. Even if it doesn't yield a final logo, it could be a boon of ideas which could drive a final design; we could even expressly encourage raw sketches. I think this is a great idea and should be done right away! Of course both Alex' and Uri's logo should also enter into the competition. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
I need to say that I was absolutely wrong, and I misread the conversation entirely. Alex certainly didn't "bypass" anybody, and what I said was blatantly incorrect. I apologise for the misinformation/confusion, I should have checked things first before even suggesting what I did. I don't want to sweep my stupidity under the rug, but I'd like to steer the conversation back to logo design; are there any thoughts on posting a community-oriented competition? I think it would be best if we collected a wealth of candidates and concepts while opening the door to new potential artists. Even if it doesn't yield a final logo, it could be a boon of ideas which could drive a final design; we could even expressly encourage raw sketches. On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > On 05.06.2016 13:22, Alessandro Longo wrote: > > Il 02-06-2016 20:47 Ken Vermette ha scritto: >> >> On a side note, like Thomas, I'm a little leery of the fact that >>> you've seemingly bypassed the VDG main channel. I've done stupid >>> things like that too (much more publicly) and I've learned that >>> consulting with peers is important before moving up the chain with an >>> idea. >>> >> >> I didn't bypassed the VDG channel, I sent the email to visual-design >> mailing list, I wanted to discuss there but also make plasma-devel >> subscribers aware of it... (looking into MLs it looks to me a good >> practice, sorry). Nobody replied into visual-design ml... Then Thomas >> informed me that my email wasn't sent into plasma-dev (but it was on >> visual-design since some days, I'm pretty sure about that). So OK if you >> didn't see that, no problem. But please don't say I bypassed VDG. Recently >> the VDG "officially" said that KDE logo has to be replaced by Plasma one >> (in a bug report iirc) and someone replied that the VDG should discuss this >> with Plasma team, since the topic is really important. So I think I did the >> best thing to use both the mailing lists. >> >> You are right in that you did not "bypass" the VDG (which is why I did > not use that word), because that would imply intent. I know that you did > not mean to bypass anybody. What I do not like is that you at least > intended to send the mail to the VDG and Plasma lists at the same time (and > yes, I could have said that earlier). I know that even that was not with > any malicious intent, either. > The problem is just that this created confusion because I know that at > least some people thought that what you presented to the Plasma list had > already been discussed and agreed upon with the VDG. You never said that, > but that's apparently how some people interpreted your email. > > So, you did not exactly do anything wrong, but in the future I'd be happy > if you discussed ideas with the rest of the VDG and only posted on dev > lists after we agreed on something (so that this agreed upon VDG suggestion > could then receive dev feedback), just to avoid confusion. > > About the fact the Sun logo looks like a gear if used as icon for kickoff: >> you are totally right, that's why I'd suggest to use a generic icon for >> kickoff, not because of the Sun logo, but because I don't like the >> tradition to use a logo into the product itself (it also makes questions: >> it should be used the DE logo (Plasma one), the community one (KDE logo) or >> the distribution one? That's why I suggest to avoid this decision and >> simply use a generic "apps" icon). If generic "apps" icons will not be >> used, I totally agree with you that the Sun logo shouldn't be used in >> monochrome as kickoff icon. >> > > You posted a screenshot from your system on Google+ [1] where you use your > proposed logo (although not in monochrome) as a launcher icon. This might > have added to the confusion. > > [1] > https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/photo/100036546744213767408/6287945369516307842 > > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
On 05.06.2016 13:22, Alessandro Longo wrote: Il 02-06-2016 20:47 Ken Vermette ha scritto: On a side note, like Thomas, I'm a little leery of the fact that you've seemingly bypassed the VDG main channel. I've done stupid things like that too (much more publicly) and I've learned that consulting with peers is important before moving up the chain with an idea. I didn't bypassed the VDG channel, I sent the email to visual-design mailing list, I wanted to discuss there but also make plasma-devel subscribers aware of it... (looking into MLs it looks to me a good practice, sorry). Nobody replied into visual-design ml... Then Thomas informed me that my email wasn't sent into plasma-dev (but it was on visual-design since some days, I'm pretty sure about that). So OK if you didn't see that, no problem. But please don't say I bypassed VDG. Recently the VDG "officially" said that KDE logo has to be replaced by Plasma one (in a bug report iirc) and someone replied that the VDG should discuss this with Plasma team, since the topic is really important. So I think I did the best thing to use both the mailing lists. You are right in that you did not "bypass" the VDG (which is why I did not use that word), because that would imply intent. I know that you did not mean to bypass anybody. What I do not like is that you at least intended to send the mail to the VDG and Plasma lists at the same time (and yes, I could have said that earlier). I know that even that was not with any malicious intent, either. The problem is just that this created confusion because I know that at least some people thought that what you presented to the Plasma list had already been discussed and agreed upon with the VDG. You never said that, but that's apparently how some people interpreted your email. So, you did not exactly do anything wrong, but in the future I'd be happy if you discussed ideas with the rest of the VDG and only posted on dev lists after we agreed on something (so that this agreed upon VDG suggestion could then receive dev feedback), just to avoid confusion. About the fact the Sun logo looks like a gear if used as icon for kickoff: you are totally right, that's why I'd suggest to use a generic icon for kickoff, not because of the Sun logo, but because I don't like the tradition to use a logo into the product itself (it also makes questions: it should be used the DE logo (Plasma one), the community one (KDE logo) or the distribution one? That's why I suggest to avoid this decision and simply use a generic "apps" icon). If generic "apps" icons will not be used, I totally agree with you that the Sun logo shouldn't be used in monochrome as kickoff icon. You posted a screenshot from your system on Google+ [1] where you use your proposed logo (although not in monochrome) as a launcher icon. This might have added to the confusion. [1] https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/photo/100036546744213767408/6287945369516307842 ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Il 02-06-2016 20:47 Ken Vermette ha scritto: On a side note, like Thomas, I'm a little leery of the fact that you've seemingly bypassed the VDG main channel. I've done stupid things like that too (much more publicly) and I've learned that consulting with peers is important before moving up the chain with an idea. I didn't bypassed the VDG channel, I sent the email to visual-design mailing list, I wanted to discuss there but also make plasma-devel subscribers aware of it... (looking into MLs it looks to me a good practice, sorry). Nobody replied into visual-design ml... Then Thomas informed me that my email wasn't sent into plasma-dev (but it was on visual-design since some days, I'm pretty sure about that). So OK if you didn't see that, no problem. But please don't say I bypassed VDG. Recently the VDG "officially" said that KDE logo has to be replaced by Plasma one (in a bug report iirc) and someone replied that the VDG should discuss this with Plasma team, since the topic is really important. So I think I did the best thing to use both the mailing lists. About the fact the Sun logo looks like a gear if used as icon for kickoff: you are totally right, that's why I'd suggest to use a generic icon for kickoff, not because of the Sun logo, but because I don't like the tradition to use a logo into the product itself (it also makes questions: it should be used the DE logo (Plasma one), the community one (KDE logo) or the distribution one? That's why I suggest to avoid this decision and simply use a generic "apps" icon). If generic "apps" icons will not be used, I totally agree with you that the Sun logo shouldn't be used in monochrome as kickoff icon. Thanks you all for the replies, -- Alessandro Longo ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
I'll be honest bout this, because this is the intersection of a few things which have bothered me lately; Our current logo for Plasma Desktop is bad. It's unbalanced, awkward, and as far as I can tell follows no guides or definable 'shape'. I've tried on several occasions to see how things were supposed to "line up", I can't. I personally never liked it. Our logo for Plasma Mobile isn't any better. I also side with Thomas; While the proposed logo has more thought to it, there are just as many pitfalls. If it's not coloured yellow it's obviously just the gear, and if we were to put it as the launcher icon (which I feel should be the plasma logotype - not the KDE logo) it would be confused as settings, and it could not be coloured yellow without breaking the dynamic colouration. I'm also not a fan of making the Plasma logo fall in-line with the Frameworks logo. While the projects are certainly tight, there's projects like LXQT which would be dis-serviced by us so intimately connecting the branding. It goes back to the whole "Plasma is just one Frameworks desktop, of many desktops" thing, like we had with Neon. People still get confused about KDE, Plasma, Apps, and Frameworks being different things. On a side note, like Thomas, I'm a little leery of the fact that you've seemingly bypassed the VDG main channel. I've done stupid things like that too (much more publicly) and I've learned that consulting with peers is important before moving up the chain with an idea. Either way, neither logo is good enough. It's why we still use the KDE logo in the default panel, which is terrible because it continues confusing the branding. I think the best solution might be to re-visit the existing logo we have and see how we can iterate on it; if we maybe line up or arrange the elements in it, the logo could be less awkward. Alternatively, if we go for something completely different we need to create several unique samples with desktop and mobile variants, also request the community creates some logos, then run a poll. The Plasma logo is the logo of our largest flagship product - the wider contributor community deserves a say. Finally... We also need tor remember the VDG is a community group, and as much as the core VDG has become a talented bunch we've forgotten that we have very talented people outside the core. We've started becoming very closed. Things like this are the perfect opportunity to attract new talent, invigorate community interaction, and give us more options for a better final result. Fact is it's almost entirely because the VDG constantly polled the community that we have the talent-base we enjoy today, and we're just letting talented individuals disappear unnoticed because we've stopped doing that. The fact that we have a terrible logo for Plasma is a great opportunity to bring fresh blood into the frey, and who wouldn't want to take a stab at making the next official Plasma logo? On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Dirk Hohndel wrote: > On June 2, 2016 4:03:06 AM PDT, Thomas Pfeiffer > wrote: > > > >On 02.06.2016 12:39, Alessandro Longo wrote: > >> Il 23-05-2016 22:52 Alessandro Longo ha scritto: > >>> (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) > >>> Hi, > >>> after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo > >that > >>> imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the > >source > >>> in SVG to experiment with it: > >>> > >>> https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv > >>> > >>> I hope you like it, > >> > >> ping > >> > >I must say that I do not really like it. I know it's supposed to remind > >people > >of sun = plasma, but in reality it looks mostly like a yellow gear. > > > >I would also have appreciated if you had talked to the VDG about your > >idea > >before presenting it to the Plasma team, as that would have avoided > >confusion. > > > >To clear up any potential confusion: This is _not_ the VDG's > >suggestion. The > >VDG's suggested logo is still this one: > >http://uriherrera.com/images/portfolio/portfolio_branding_plasma_logo.png > > The VDG's suggestion continues to be strange and imho ugly. I like the > yellow gear without the K a lot better. > > Have you considered that the fact that no one seems to use the "three dots > greater nothing" logo may be because people don't like it? > > /D > > > -- > Sent from my phone > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
On June 2, 2016 4:03:06 AM PDT, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: > >On 02.06.2016 12:39, Alessandro Longo wrote: >> Il 23-05-2016 22:52 Alessandro Longo ha scritto: >>> (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) >>> Hi, >>> after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo >that >>> imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the >source >>> in SVG to experiment with it: >>> >>> https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv >>> >>> I hope you like it, >> >> ping >> >I must say that I do not really like it. I know it's supposed to remind >people >of sun = plasma, but in reality it looks mostly like a yellow gear. > >I would also have appreciated if you had talked to the VDG about your >idea >before presenting it to the Plasma team, as that would have avoided >confusion. > >To clear up any potential confusion: This is _not_ the VDG's >suggestion. The >VDG's suggested logo is still this one: >http://uriherrera.com/images/portfolio/portfolio_branding_plasma_logo.png The VDG's suggestion continues to be strange and imho ugly. I like the yellow gear without the K a lot better. Have you considered that the fact that no one seems to use the "three dots greater nothing" logo may be because people don't like it? /D -- Sent from my phone ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Hi Alex, The things I like about the proposal: - It retains the connection to the old logo (a huge plus in my book) - I like the idea of the Sun with Plasma - It would still be easy to recognize it even from the distance The problems I see with it (if it is meant to be used as the menu icon and all the similar places, and not only as a project logo): - it looks like the configuration button because it looks like the gear, even if it is really a Sun :) - I don't find it that visually appealing. The KDE logo was always on the ugly side, and I never saw a really good idea on how to improve it. You can compare it to the old and new Gnome logo - from ugly to really nice with a really small change [1][2]. Now, I do like this one more than some previous attempts including the 'dots-instead-of-gears-logo' [3], but it still is not something I'd go drooling after. - A small problem is that another project has a Sun-inspired logo - enlightenment [4]. But this is a tiny problem since the visual connection is really small. Cheers, Ivan p.s. I was not thinking that this is a VDG proposal, it was clear it is Alex's personal idea. [1] Old Gnome logo: https://projects-old.gnome.org/accessibility/talks/GUAD3C/making-apps-accessible/gnome-logo-large.gif [2] New Gnome logo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Gnomelogo.svg/2000px-Gnomelogo.svg.png [3] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cFiFGshspOc/UxSF4_DiRtI/MFk/7iAS5z55Yok/s1600/logo.png [4] Enlightenment logo: https://blogs.s-osg.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/e-logo-title-med-res-background.png.png ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
On 02.06.2016 12:39, Alessandro Longo wrote: Il 23-05-2016 22:52 Alessandro Longo ha scritto: (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) Hi, after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo that imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the source in SVG to experiment with it: https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv I hope you like it, ping I must say that I do not really like it. I know it's supposed to remind people of sun = plasma, but in reality it looks mostly like a yellow gear. I would also have appreciated if you had talked to the VDG about your idea before presenting it to the Plasma team, as that would have avoided confusion. To clear up any potential confusion: This is _not_ the VDG's suggestion. The VDG's suggested logo is still this one: http://uriherrera.com/images/portfolio/portfolio_branding_plasma_logo.png Cheers, Thomas ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Il 23-05-2016 22:52 Alessandro Longo ha scritto: (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) Hi, after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo that imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the source in SVG to experiment with it: https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv I hope you like it, ping -- Alessandro Longo ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Il 24-05-2016 12:03 Kåre Särs ha scritto: Hi, Did you notice that the Qt logo has changed? The rounded corners are not round anymore: http://brand.qt.io/guidelines/ Yes I knew it, thanks. Also the font changed. I think me or others will update the Qt icons in Breeze, in the meanwhile I recycled the one we had. Not sure about update the shape, I made the KDE Frameworks icon with the same shape to stress it's based on Qt framework. I'm not sure the new shape will be good for KDE Frameworks icon. -- Alessandro Longo ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
Hi, Did you notice that the Qt logo has changed? The rounded corners are not round anymore: http://brand.qt.io/guidelines/ /Kåre On måndag 23 maj 2016 kl. 22:52:47 EEST Alessandro Longo wrote: > (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) > Hi, > after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo that > imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the source in > SVG to experiment with it: > > https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv > > I hope you like it, ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: New idea for Plasma's logo
I like it El lun., 23 de mayo de 2016 5:53 PM, Alessandro Longo escribió: > (resent because apparently mailman rejected it) > Hi, > after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo that > imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the source in > SVG to experiment with it: > > https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv > > I hope you like it, > > -- > Alessandro Longo > KDE V Design Group > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
New idea for Plasma's logo
(resent because apparently mailman rejected it) Hi, after a lot of iterations I found a simple idea for Plasma's logo that imho works well. This is the link to view it in PDF and to the source in SVG to experiment with it: https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/OC3TGlHAba20QWv I hope you like it, -- Alessandro Longo KDE V Design Group ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
