Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tuesday 14 October 2014 10:43:42 Martin Klapetek wrote: Any opinions/objections? as I implemented it this way I can share the reasons why I did go for re-using the screen edge activation we have for other things. First of all: consistency. All edges work the same way and users can expect certain behavior: if the glow is shown one has to push against the edge to get functionality. Second reason: multi-usage of the edge: it's possible to use the edge multiple times, so it should behave the same way for all of them. Third reason: preventing unwanted triggering: the auto-hiding panel is there for increasing the screen estate. With the panel unhiding without the push back it will become difficult to use the newly exposed area. This is especially important if one considers that not all pointer devices are very precise and not everybody is able to use a pointer device in a precise manner. Personally I don't care whether there is a pushback or not. From the experience over the years with the screen edges I highly recommend to the pushback, though. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tuesday 14 October 2014, Martin Klapetek wrote: I'd like to change this for Plasma panels to not have any resistance or very minimal one, basically get it into a state that slamming the mouse against a screen edge will show the panel easily, without requiring an additional push. i'm a bit concerned this would cause a lot of unwanted activations, is the first complain i hear about autohide panels, and the reson back in the days i stopped using them -- Marco Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Marco Martin notm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 14 October 2014, Martin Klapetek wrote: I'd like to change this for Plasma panels to not have any resistance or very minimal one, basically get it into a state that slamming the mouse against a screen edge will show the panel easily, without requiring an additional push. i'm a bit concerned this would cause a lot of unwanted activations, is the first complain i hear about autohide panels, and the reson back in the days i stopped using them In this case it's the 'wanted' activation that's not working too nicely. I think that auto-hiding panel that requires two slams against a screen edge to appear is just worse to have than couple of unwanted activations. As for non-precise pointing devices - this might actually highlight the problem even more - you may not be too precise with it, so what you do is you slam the pointer towards the edge, that's the easiest thing you can do with less-precise devices - drag it/push it strongly in one direction. But the current state actually requires careful navigation around the screenedge like slow movement towards it or doing the same movement twice to trigger the panel, so imo the current situation is even worse with those devices (and I'm thinking people with lessened hand mobility, trackballs, touchpads and stylus-tablets...what I missed?). There is also another angle to this - we could make the auto-hiding algorithm more clever and better handling the unwanted activation - eg. if you quickly go to the edge and quickly go out, the hiding delay could be minimal, if you stay longer or not move so quickly away from the panel, the hiding delay could be longer etc. Eike did some similar stuff in Kicker. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tuesday 14 October 2014 11:42:13 Martin Klapetek wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Marco Martin notm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 14 October 2014, Martin Klapetek wrote: I'd like to change this for Plasma panels to not have any resistance or very minimal one, basically get it into a state that slamming the mouse against a screen edge will show the panel easily, without requiring an additional push. i'm a bit concerned this would cause a lot of unwanted activations, is the first complain i hear about autohide panels, and the reson back in the days i stopped using them In this case it's the 'wanted' activation that's not working too nicely. I think that auto-hiding panel that requires two slams against a screen edge to appear is just worse to have than couple of unwanted activations. As for non-precise pointing devices - this might actually highlight the problem even more - you may not be too precise with it, so what you do is you slam the pointer towards the edge, that's the easiest thing you can do with less-precise devices - drag it/push it strongly in one direction. But the current state actually requires careful navigation around the screenedge like slow movement towards it or doing the same movement twice to trigger the panel, so imo the current situation is even worse with those devices (and I'm thinking people with lessened hand mobility, trackballs, touchpads and stylus-tablets...what I missed?). huh? all of that should not be needed. Just continue to move into the same direction and it will trigger. Especially there should not be any need to do the same movement twice as the mouse pointer gets repositioned. There is also another angle to this - we could make the auto-hiding algorithm more clever and better handling the unwanted activation - eg. if you quickly go to the edge and quickly go out, the hiding delay could be minimal, if you stay longer or not move so quickly away from the panel, the hiding delay could be longer etc. Eike did some similar stuff in Kicker. feel free to experiment with improving the screen edge activation :-) Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Martin Gräßlin mgraess...@kde.org wrote: huh? all of that should not be needed. Just continue to move into the same direction and it will trigger. Especially there should not be any need to do the same movement twice as the mouse pointer gets repositioned. Moving the mouse across the screen to the edge stops the cursor at the edge (even if I continue moving the mouse a bit), the blue glow appears, instinctively I stop the mouse (as the mouse cursor is not moving anymore) and at this point I just have to move the mouse again with the same force - hence the two slams. To overcome the panel resistance in one single mouse movement it takes me moving the mouse across half the table here. Cheers -- Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tuesday 14 October 2014 12:19:24 Martin Klapetek wrote: To overcome the panel resistance in one single mouse movement it takes me moving the mouse across half the table here. This would indicate that the overall edge triggering code needs to be improved. I'm certainly not saying that it's perfect. For my usage it's not a problem as I'm using a trackball. So the outcome for me is: let's try improve the handling to make it better for everyone. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tuesday 14 October 2014 10:43:42 Martin Klapetek wrote: I'd like to change this for Plasma panels to not have any resistance or very minimal one, basically get it into a state that slamming the mouse against a screen edge will show the panel easily, without requiring an additional push. I think we should ask VDG about this, it is a change in behavior and look and feel after all! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Auto-hiding panels
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:51 AM, Àlex Fiestas wrote: On Tuesday 14 October 2014 10:43:42 Martin Klapetek wrote: I'd like to change this for Plasma panels to not have any resistance or very minimal one, basically get it into a state that slamming the mouse against a screen edge will show the panel easily, without requiring an additional push. I think we should ask VDG about this, it is a change in behavior and look and feel after all! Maybe just tweak to the edge triggering code might get us there as Martin suggests. :-) Best I can tell, the behavioral model from the user side is to move the cursor far enough beyond the edge and the panel will appear. Based on that behavioral model, I think the expectation would be that if the cursor is moving relatively quickly when it get's to the edge it'll get to the magic distance beyond the edge more quickly than if the cursor is moving relatively slowly. Another potential behavioral model could be a force model, where the panel unhides when the edge is hit with a certain degree of force. Force based models can be quite complex though since it usually requires some kind of elastic resistance at the edge to allow triggering when moving the cursor relatively slowly. Also, since there are very few uses of the cursor within the screen boundaries that employ a force model, the user needs to maintain quite different behavioral models of the the cursor behavior at the edge versus the middle of the screen. It doesn't mean it can't be done, but I think it can be quite tricky to do well. A simple magic distance past the edge behavior is usually much simpler and more predictable I think and should handle the fast versus slow edge approaches just fine. Hope this helps, Andrew ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
