Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Mark Gaiser]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mark Gaiser  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Kai Uwe Broulik 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?
>>
>> Why? You still have the job progress in the notification area with time
>> and controls by default. It's just that you need to disable them both for
>> the legacy dialog to show up.
>>
>
> Sure, do you mind explaining how i can turn these settings back on?
> I really can't find those settings anymore and if i remember correctly the
> one setting to change the progress from notification area to dialog only
> shows up if you have the notification area one. I had that set to the
> dialog one so now i can't get that setting to appear anymore.. Or i'm just
> overlooking it every single time..
>
> I had also disabled the status in the taskbar (i was guessing that would
> bring back the dialog since the other setting would already be OK for me),
> but no dialog appeared. Granted, i didn't restart plasma... I will try
> again with a plasma restart after it (note: those simple things shouldn't
> require a desktop restart..)
>

For the record. Yes, restarting plasma (and having the "Show progress and
status information in task buttons" disabled) made it work. I now have a
progress dialog again.

>
> But ehh.. Your suggestion would make me lose the status in the taskbar..
> I'm ok with that, but i find that feature rather neat. Isn't there a way to
> have the dialog and the taskbar status?
>
>>
>> I was thinking of providing the full UI in task manager but since not all
>> jobs have an application (window) associated with them I didn't.
>
>
> I think that would get a bit full in the popup.. You would have the
> transfer speed in there (perhaps in chart form like the network manager
> has?) and controls to pause and cancel. It might fit, but it might also
> feel like too much information for the user. Then again, please do that
> since it would be much better :)
>
>
>
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Mark Gaiser]

This is funny. It's related to this, but i didn't want to keep this
information from you folks :)

Now that i have this issue i'm looking at some old mailing list archives of
2008.
At one point there apparently was a proposal for a "JobViewServer"
specification [1] that supported file transfer details and was originally
inspired by this mockup [2]. That specification apparently never lasted
long since it was superseded by the notifications specifications [3]. That
spec in turn apparently lost the ability to send file progress updates over
dbus. Mind you, this was 2008! Then - years later - ubuntu apparently
somewhere in 2011 [4] made the LauncherAPI (the wiki history goes back till
Feb. 2011 so i guess it is from around that time).

In 2011 Ubuntu apparently had the power to do what was years before
envisioned for KDE [2] and somewhere in 2010 also implemented for KDE [5].
I don't think it ever made it in an official KDE release.

Now - again years later - Kai apparently stumbled upon the Ubuntu
LauncherAPI [4] and implemented it for Plasma, what was supposed to be a
KDE idea to begin with. It's ironic how old ideas somewhere get lost in
history to be reinvented by someone else and then picked up by the team
that originally invented it in the first place :)

So much irony!

I do have one question for this though. Why did the transfer progress never
made it in the notifications api? That really smells like a massive missed
opportunity back in the 2008 days? All it took would have been a revision
update (current one is 0.9 from 2006). And perhaps another revision with
the other missing bits that the LauncherAPI has which the notification spec
lacks.

Cheers,
Mark

[1]
http://markmail.org/message/vlfjvfksbu3643u7#query:+page:1+mid:2p7ait73n5l2nqeu+state:results
[2] http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=33673
[3] http://www.galago-project.org/specs/notification/0.9/index.html
[4] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI
[5] http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/SmartNotify?content=133472

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Mark Gaiser  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Kai Uwe Broulik 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?
>>
>> Why? You still have the job progress in the notification area with time
>> and controls by default. It's just that you need to disable them both for
>> the legacy dialog to show up.
>>
>
> Sure, do you mind explaining how i can turn these settings back on?
> I really can't find those settings anymore and if i remember correctly the
> one setting to change the progress from notification area to dialog only
> shows up if you have the notification area one. I had that set to the
> dialog one so now i can't get that setting to appear anymore.. Or i'm just
> overlooking it every single time..
>
> I had also disabled the status in the taskbar (i was guessing that would
> bring back the dialog since the other setting would already be OK for me),
> but no dialog appeared. Granted, i didn't restart plasma... I will try
> again with a plasma restart after it (note: those simple things shouldn't
> require a desktop restart..)
>
> But ehh.. Your suggestion would make me lose the status in the taskbar..
> I'm ok with that, but i find that feature rather neat. Isn't there a way to
> have the dialog and the taskbar status?
>
>>
>> I was thinking of providing the full UI in task manager but since not all
>> jobs have an application (window) associated with them I didn't.
>
>
> I think that would get a bit full in the popup.. You would have the
> transfer speed in there (perhaps in chart form like the network manager
> has?) and controls to pause and cancel. It might fit, but it might also
> feel like too much information for the user. Then again, please do that
> since it would be much better :)
>
>
>
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Mark Gaiser]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Kai Uwe Broulik 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?
>
> Why? You still have the job progress in the notification area with time
> and controls by default. It's just that you need to disable them both for
> the legacy dialog to show up.
>

Sure, do you mind explaining how i can turn these settings back on?
I really can't find those settings anymore and if i remember correctly the
one setting to change the progress from notification area to dialog only
shows up if you have the notification area one. I had that set to the
dialog one so now i can't get that setting to appear anymore.. Or i'm just
overlooking it every single time..

I had also disabled the status in the taskbar (i was guessing that would
bring back the dialog since the other setting would already be OK for me),
but no dialog appeared. Granted, i didn't restart plasma... I will try
again with a plasma restart after it (note: those simple things shouldn't
require a desktop restart..)

But ehh.. Your suggestion would make me lose the status in the taskbar..
I'm ok with that, but i find that feature rather neat. Isn't there a way to
have the dialog and the taskbar status?

>
> I was thinking of providing the full UI in task manager but since not all
> jobs have an application (window) associated with them I didn't.


I think that would get a bit full in the popup.. You would have the
transfer speed in there (perhaps in chart form like the network manager
has?) and controls to pause and cancel. It might fit, but it might also
feel like too much information for the user. Then again, please do that
since it would be much better :)
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Kai Uwe Broulik]

Hi,

> Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?

Why? You still have the job progress in the notification area with time and 
controls by default. It's just that you need to disable them both for the 
legacy dialog to show up.

I was thinking of providing the full UI in task manager but since not all jobs 
have an application (window) associated with them I didn't. 
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 10.06.2016 20:53, Mark Gaiser wrote:
On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Kai Uwe Broulik > wrote:


Hi,

oh, heh. Yeah I'm using the job dataengine and if there's any user of it
the job view server will be started and job progress is sent there instead.

You can disable the "show application status" thing in task manager
settings. Might need two separate settings (one for unity launchers, one
for application jobs).

Cheers,
Kai Uwe


oh..

Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?

I like the status in the taskbar, but i would like it to be *additional* 
information besides the information that used to be shown. In my case i'd like 
to have the process window (where i can actually see how fast a transfer is 
progressing, how long it will take and cancel it if needed for whatever 
reason). Now i can't do anything, not even cancel it..




Wouldn't it make much more sense to integrate the needed functionality in the 
taskbar popup instead of having progress shown in two different places at once?


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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Mark Gaiser]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Kai Uwe Broulik 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> oh, heh. Yeah I'm using the job dataengine and if there's any user of it
> the job view server will be started and job progress is sent there instead.
>
> You can disable the "show application status" thing in task manager
> settings. Might need two separate settings (one for unity launchers, one
> for application jobs).
>
> Cheers,
> Kai Uwe
>

oh..

Could you please reconsider that implementation detail?

I like the status in the taskbar, but i would like it to be *additional*
information besides the information that used to be shown. In my case i'd
like to have the process window (where i can actually see how fast a
transfer is progressing, how long it will take and cancel it if needed for
whatever reason). Now i can't do anything, not even cancel it..
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Kai Uwe Broulik]

Hi,

oh, heh. Yeah I'm using the job dataengine and if there's any user of it the 
job view server will be started and job progress is sent there instead. 

You can disable the "show application status" thing in task manager settings. 
Might need two separate settings (one for unity launchers, one for application 
jobs).

Cheers, 
Kai Uwe 



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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Mark Gaiser]

Thank you, Alexander!

I was also suspecting that change to have caused it, but i don't see that
change disabling (or removing) the progress window.
Actually, i;m not even sure which part is responsible for putting the
progress window in screen. It could be dolphin specific, but it could also
be KIO.. Or something in dolphin that triggers something in KIO.

It's likely one of the two, but i don't know any of that with 100%
certainty.

Anyway, i hope the plasma folks have a better understanding of where
something might have gone wrong.

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Alexander Potashev 
wrote:

> CCed plasma-devel and Kai because your problem is probably tied with
> this commit:
>
>
> http://commits.kde.org/plasma-desktop/e284e9dc17051f22d05985e218fa44ddaba78de5
>
> --
> Alexander Potashev
>
> 2016-06-05 19:29 GMT+03:00 Mark Gaiser :
> > Hi,
> >
> > I used to have the file transfer dialog n Dolphin.
> > Plasma by default showed (past tense, it changed) the copy of a file in
> the
> > lower right corner in some round animating thing that was slowly filling
> up.
> > I never found that very useful and disabled it since that gave me the
> "old
> > fashioned" file transfer dialog. That was OK.
> >
> > Now however, i just noticed that i have no transfer dialog at all
> anymore.
> > All i have now is a transfer
> > "status" by looking at the taskbar which now fills up. That on it's own
> - as
> > supplement - would've been a very nice addition, no argument there. But
> now
> > i don't see a transfer speed, don't have an option to cancel a transfer
> at
> > all. That cannot be the intended way of how this is supposed to work,
> right?
> >
> > So, ehh.. Did the file transfer dialog got removed?
> > Or is there still an option somewhere to turn it back on?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
>
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Re: What happened to Dolphin's transfer dialog?

[Alexander Potashev]

CCed plasma-devel and Kai because your problem is probably tied with
this commit:

http://commits.kde.org/plasma-desktop/e284e9dc17051f22d05985e218fa44ddaba78de5

-- 
Alexander Potashev

2016-06-05 19:29 GMT+03:00 Mark Gaiser :
> Hi,
>
> I used to have the file transfer dialog n Dolphin.
> Plasma by default showed (past tense, it changed) the copy of a file in the
> lower right corner in some round animating thing that was slowly filling up.
> I never found that very useful and disabled it since that gave me the "old
> fashioned" file transfer dialog. That was OK.
>
> Now however, i just noticed that i have no transfer dialog at all anymore.
> All i have now is a transfer
> "status" by looking at the taskbar which now fills up. That on it's own - as
> supplement - would've been a very nice addition, no argument there. But now
> i don't see a transfer speed, don't have an option to cancel a transfer at
> all. That cannot be the intended way of how this is supposed to work, right?
>
> So, ehh.. Did the file transfer dialog got removed?
> Or is there still an option somewhere to turn it back on?
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
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