Re: Commerical Applications
David A. Desrosiers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The important thing is that if you change the _source_ to the > project, that those changes be available to the community, so they can > benefit from them. [...] Note that while the above is the expressed wish of the maintainer (and therefore A Good Idea), the GPL only requires you to share with your users. This may be the same thing, though. -- MJR http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is my home web site. This for Jabber Messaging. How's my writing? Let me know via any of my contact details. ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
> Our releases are pretty silent to the user, they either see no dialogs or > dialogs where they can just keep clicking next and accept all the defaults. > We will pre load a channel into Plucker Desktop for them. We also plan to > use links on a web site to allow adding more channels if needed (via > plkrdata). We also have the requirement to make everything as simple as > possible - a one click install with no options and then sync the content > when hotsync is pushed. We've been successful so far with our previous > release. Sounds good. > Also, Robert has the Windows installer Innosetup > script available too. It also is in the Plucker CVS. > I agree with Robert in that the other parsers haven't been tested nearly as > much as the Python one. In my case, I just plan to test it on our specific > pages for now. When you feel it is ready, feel free to drop a note, and we can set in the CVS. > Also, since the Plucker Desktop menus/dialogs/etc are based on XML resource > files, it might even be possible to disable all the options you don't want > people messing with just by modifying the XML resource files. I'm not > certain of this however. Most of the text and image resources are in XML resources for better maintainability. Quite a bit of the strings though, and configuration options were included in the code, these will be brought outside the executable in the next CVS update, for easier maintainability. Best wishes, Robert ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
> If you change the icons to suit your business logos, or the forms to > suit your business needs, distributing those changes wouldn't serve to help > the community much, and generally don't fall under the redistribution clause > of the GPL. If someone used "Your" distributed icon in their product, it > would be a copyright (and likely trademark) violation against your company. > > The important thing is that if you change the _source_ to the > project, that those changes be available to the community, so they can > benefit from them. For example, if you added support for image maps within > Plucker, or parsing forms, or talking to a back-end database of content.. > _those_ changes are required to be set back into the community, per the > license. I agree 100%. It is fundamental that the extra functionality be returned back to the project. With regard to trademarks, IIRC some projects (RedHat, Mozilla for some reason are the ones coming to mind) trademark their icon/logo and require a redistributed version to bear a different name and logo. IIRC that was the reason why a regular mozilla distribution doesn't have the red star/Shep Fairey T-Rex on the splash screen. Companies or governments I think can have a part of the project, as their need for solutions can help further some different functionality, as long as the terms of the GPL are held. Best wishes, Robert ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > If you change the name and icon (viewer) and leave everything else intact, > do you still have to distribute sources? How about if you change about > screen and other text messages? If you change the icons to suit your business logos, or the forms to suit your business needs, distributing those changes wouldn't serve to help the community much, and generally don't fall under the redistribution clause of the GPL. If someone used "Your" distributed icon in their product, it would be a copyright (and likely trademark) violation against your company. The important thing is that if you change the _source_ to the project, that those changes be available to the community, so they can benefit from them. For example, if you added support for image maps within Plucker, or parsing forms, or talking to a back-end database of content.. _those_ changes are required to be set back into the community, per the license. Look and feel changes are generally not something that needs to be contributed back, but there's a fine line there too. Let's say that Plucker only supported black and white images, and you extended that to add support for color images and a colored toolbar/icons to go with it in the viewer and distiller/parser, _those_ changes should be contributed back, because someone can benefit from them in their own use of Plucker. Was that any more clear? If you feel you want to ask what is and isn't require to be distributed back, we can always help you, as well as make a custom version for your company, on a contract basis if need be. d. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+YkTlkRQERnB1rkoRAqJGAJ0cox3ybH1GbDmgbNFGQWPK2D/5uQCdGkxW etQRrOPcTKEgjg6H3+iZyNI= =7EwS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
When last we built the viewer for distribution, we changed the name and icon for the Palm, but left everything else (including the info in the about screen) unchanged. Hello, If you change the name and icon (viewer) and leave everything else intact, do you still have to distribute sources? How about if you change about screen and other text messages? Thanks, Branko _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
Kevin wrote: >I'm new to the list and apologize for bringing the big, bad specter of commercial applications to >the great open source project you've all created. Simply put, I'm looking for a viable alternative >to AvantGo's "Custom Channels" for a client who wants to make their product information and website >available on Palm OS devices. Currently their site is essentially brochureware, with about 300 >products (the HTML-for-Palm version of the site I made has about 1,000 pages.) >The Plucker Desktop application is great, and would work very well for our purposes. The initial >roll-out of the content would be only to dealers (around 1,500), but eventually we'd like a way to >have consumers be able to access the information as well. The problem is that the dealers are, well, >not all that technologically sophisticated... Put it this way - the sign-up and account process for >AvantGo was deemed too cumbersome and complex... :-\ This is about the same thing we do at my company. For the next release I plan to package up Plucker Desktop as is with my C++ parser (so there isn't a need for an interpreter to be installed), the conduit and the viewer. When last we built the viewer for distribution, we changed the name and icon for the Palm, but left everything else (including the info in the about screen) unchanged. I don't know that we will make the changes next time. In fact some of our users have since found the Plucker site and downloaded newer versions which is great. Our releases are pretty silent to the user, they either see no dialogs or dialogs where they can just keep clicking next and accept all the defaults. We will pre load a channel into Plucker Desktop for them. We also plan to use links on a web site to allow adding more channels if needed (via plkrdata). We also have the requirement to make everything as simple as possible - a one click install with no options and then sync the content when hotsync is pushed. We've been successful so far with our previous release. I don't think you will find it that difficult to make the changes you are suggesting. Also, Robert has the Windows installer Innosetup script available too. I agree with Robert in that the other parsers haven't been tested nearly as much as the Python one. In my case, I just plan to test it on our specific pages for now. I wait to be corrected, but the GPL doesn't prohibit you from charging money for the application (even when someone else wrote it). It doesn't prohibit you from using it or pieces of it and charging for them either. You just have to make sure you distribute the source and don't change the copyright notice. Of course then someone has the right to get the sources and compile them themselves. This might not be something your customers might do, but it might be something your competition does. Also, since the Plucker Desktop menus/dialogs/etc are based on XML resource files, it might even be possible to disable all the options you don't want people messing with just by modifying the XML resource files. I'm not certain of this however. If you think about it, you are getting a lot of stuff for free. Don't overlook the donate link on the site :-) I hope the Plucker team doesn't mind me mentioning it. My 2 cents. Bill ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
re: Commerical Applications
> Installing > Python, Python Parser, and Plucker Desktop may be cumbersome for the tech > staff and IMHO prone to more things going wrong. > Jpluck only requires the latest version of Java Of course, that is your opinion, but I am going to have to spend time to put in a few comments. In both cases, there is a script and a VM to read it, and either would require the suitable VM (Java or Python) to be installed, and of a high enough version. In an uncoupled solution as the Plucker package, you can use whatever parser needed, python, a java one, a perl one, or a C++ one with no VM or scripts at all needed to be installed. And has been discussed on plucker-team, the Linux will in the future have a single package installer for convenience, so with regards to items to install, that is not an item really. Furthermore, since python is Free and unencumbered, the relevant parts can be cut up and packaged all-in- one, as is done on MSW, so that there is just a single set up click wizard without worrying about tracking down virtual machines. The Plucker python parser (and some of the others), have a multi-year history behind them of removing bugs and optimizations for distribution, vastly decreasing the number of errors in a deployment. The caveat I guess would be compilations on obtuse platforms, but the original poster mentioned that the end users were having too much compexity in setting up an AvantGo channel, it is unlikely to be their task to compile things or use commandlines at all. Just want the simple installer, which we provide. If he is distributing to rare low percentage platforms outside Posix/OSX/Microsoft that would be better fit for a pure interpreted language solution like Java or other. With regard to choice of languages in general, the Plucker project because of its goals, is unencumbered by the non-Free languages. While Delphi/Kylix, QT, Java, or .NET are able to make applications that run across some different OS's, they are all non-Free and coupled with their own set of license restrictions on use or distribution (and QT won't work with the Free compilers on Windows). Each of these have a single company at the helm holding the reins that can step and decide to induce a fee at any time for further development, or change their license agreement for futre versions, as they control what happens at the top level. Especially relevant since that is what AvantGo also did: take in people for free and then decide later to chage the rules of what they control (in their case a few-thousand fee for >8 users). Ditto for UniSys and GIF format. It is not that the holding company is inherently evil, it is that their shareholders want money, and the company then bows to that pressure when things get rough. And Sun's current situation isn't that sunny: I don't know how long they are going to maintain their current path without going to the more dire ways of making money from the things that they control. Best wishes, Robert .---~~---. / \ /\MedicalMnemonics.com |__| .---+` `+---. A free non-profit online searchable | | () | | database of medical mnemonics to help `---+.__.+---' remember the important details. (| OO |) ^\/^ http://www.medicalmnemonics.com \\// [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ `-_ _-' ~~ ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
On 28 Feb 2003 at 13:51, Kevin Bolduan wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm new to the list and apologize for bringing the big, bad specter of commercial > applications to the great open source project you've all created. Simply put, I'm > looking for a viable alternative to AvantGo's "Custom Channels" for a client who > wants to make their product information and website available on Palm OS devices. Currently their site is essentially brochureware, with about 300 products (the HTML-for-Palm version of the site I made has about 1,000 pages.) > > The Plucker Desktop application is great, and would work very well for our purposes. > The initial roll-out of the content would be only to dealers (around 1,500), but > eventually we'd like a way to have consumers be able to access the information as > well. The problem is that the dealers are, well, not all that technologically sophisticated... Put it this way - the sign-up and account process for AvantGo was deemed too cumbersome and complex... :-\ > > My vision is a customized version of the Plucker Desktop. For example, the > "Showcase" would be removed, 25-30 channels (each representing different sections of > the website) would be pre-populated (like the Clinical Exam) with predetermined > update schedules, and references to "Plucker" and the rubber chicken and pacifier icons would be replaced with my client's name and logo. Of course anywhere it was possible, we'd have "Powered By Plucker" or whatever was necessary. All the tabs for configuring a channel (Spidering, Links, Formatting, etc.) would be removed and/or uneditable and pre- configured with the proper information for our particular application. > > Another useful option would be to "disable" a channel. I know I can delete them, but > it would be nice to allow users to temporarily turn off a specific channel for the > next sync. > > I'm a marketer and website developer from the Dark Side (ASP, mostly) - Python and > the development of applications like this is well outside my realm of expertise. > Rather, I'm looking for a partner to modify the Plucker Desktop to fit a very > commercial application. Given the open source nature and GPL licensing, I don't even know if this is possible - any information would be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you for your time! > > -Kevin Bolduan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ > plucker-dev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev > .---~~---. / \ /\MedicalMnemonics.com |__| .---+` `+---. A free non-profit online searchable | | () | | database of medical mnemonics to help `---+.__.+---' remember the important details. (| OO |) ^\/^ http://www.medicalmnemonics.com \\// [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ `-_ _-' ~~ ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Re: Commerical Applications
Kevin Bolduan wrote: > Given the open source nature and GPL licensing, I don't even know if > this is possible - any information would be greatly appreciated. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html Regards -Laurens ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
RE: Commerical Applications
>From a useability point of view, Jpluck may be a better solution. Installing Python, Python Parser, and Plucker Desktop may be cumbersome for the tech staff and IMHO prone to more things going wrong. Jpluck only requires the latest version of Java and does just about everything. There is no showcase, so that's easy. And the question of adding a disable (or activate) checkbox is easy. It also supports installing to memory cards. Once a non-beta version comes out, it (again IMHO) would most likely suit your needs best. Also, the scheduling in Jpluck is more streamlined for odd schedules. Alas, I don't speak for any of the Jpluck Team, I just use the product. And I am a very happy user. --Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Bolduan Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Commerical Applications Greetings, I'm new to the list and apologize for bringing the big, bad specter of commercial applications to the great open source project you've all created. Simply put, I'm looking for a viable alternative to AvantGo's "Custom Channels" for a client who wants to make their product information and website available on Palm OS devices. Currently their site is essentially brochureware, with about 300 products (the HTML-for-Palm version of the site I made has about 1,000 pages.) The Plucker Desktop application is great, and would work very well for our purposes. The initial roll-out of the content would be only to dealers (around 1,500), but eventually we'd like a way to have consumers be able to access the information as well. The problem is that the dealers are, well, not all that technologically sophisticated... Put it this way - the sign-up and account process for AvantGo was deemed too cumbersome and complex... :-\ My vision is a customized version of the Plucker Desktop. For example, the "Showcase" would be removed, 25-30 channels (each representing different sections of the website) would be pre-populated (like the Clinical Exam) with predetermined update schedules, and references to "Plucker" and the rubber chicken and pacifier icons would be replaced with my client's name and logo. Of course anywhere it was possible, we'd have "Powered By Plucker" or whatever was necessary. All the tabs for configuring a channel (Spidering, Links, Formatting, etc.) would be removed and/or uneditable and pre-configured with the proper information for our particular application. Another useful option would be to "disable" a channel. I know I can delete them, but it would be nice to allow users to temporarily turn off a specific channel for the next sync. I'm a marketer and website developer from the Dark Side (ASP, mostly) - Python and the development of applications like this is well outside my realm of expertise. Rather, I'm looking for a partner to modify the Plucker Desktop to fit a very commercial application. Given the open source nature and GPL licensing, I don't even know if this is possible - any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time! -Kevin Bolduan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
Commerical Applications
Greetings, I'm new to the list and apologize for bringing the big, bad specter of commercial applications to the great open source project you've all created. Simply put, I'm looking for a viable alternative to AvantGo's "Custom Channels" for a client who wants to make their product information and website available on Palm OS devices. Currently their site is essentially brochureware, with about 300 products (the HTML-for-Palm version of the site I made has about 1,000 pages.) The Plucker Desktop application is great, and would work very well for our purposes. The initial roll-out of the content would be only to dealers (around 1,500), but eventually we'd like a way to have consumers be able to access the information as well. The problem is that the dealers are, well, not all that technologically sophisticated... Put it this way - the sign-up and account process for AvantGo was deemed too cumbersome and complex... :-\ My vision is a customized version of the Plucker Desktop. For example, the "Showcase" would be removed, 25-30 channels (each representing different sections of the website) would be pre-populated (like the Clinical Exam) with predetermined update schedules, and references to "Plucker" and the rubber chicken and pacifier icons would be replaced with my client's name and logo. Of course anywhere it was possible, we'd have "Powered By Plucker" or whatever was necessary. All the tabs for configuring a channel (Spidering, Links, Formatting, etc.) would be removed and/or uneditable and pre-configured with the proper information for our particular application. Another useful option would be to "disable" a channel. I know I can delete them, but it would be nice to allow users to temporarily turn off a specific channel for the next sync. I'm a marketer and website developer from the Dark Side (ASP, mostly) - Python and the development of applications like this is well outside my realm of expertise. Rather, I'm looking for a partner to modify the Plucker Desktop to fit a very commercial application. Given the open source nature and GPL licensing, I don't even know if this is possible - any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time! -Kevin Bolduan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ plucker-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.rubberchicken.org/mailman/listinfo/plucker-dev
