Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 10:17 -0700, Patrick J. Timlick wrote: In my Weird Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. -- Pat A few problems with this. 1. SpamCannibal and EasyTCP require perl, not python. 2. The Slackware 10.1 based server is running perl 5.12.1 just fine. 3. Obviously, CentOS's perl 5.8.8 doesn't match. 4. I've already installed perl 5.12.1 as the default on CentOS. 5. I did an rpm -e --nodeps for all of the CentOS perl packages and then I deleted /usr/lib/perl5 prior to source installation. Thing is, there has to be a way to do this and if there isn't, there should be an explanation why. When perl 6 is finished, will people still prefer python? I don't understand why people want to leave perl for python. If Redhat has done something strange to perl, what did Redhat do? Can I duplicate this with the newer source code to be compatible with CentOS 5.x perl and perl 5.12.1 on the slackware based server? The slackware server is nfs root based, so please don't suggest that I upgrade. I'm tempted to install perl 5.8.8 via yum on CentOS, but this won't match what I have on the Slackware server and it is older. Is there a way to install the standard perl to a non standard area to study it somehow so I can figure out what RedHat did to it? EasyTCP isn't working on the CentOS server with perl 5.12.1, I get a lot of unintialized value errors and I don't know why. Isn't perl capable of emulating older versions of itself? ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:03 AM, Michael C. Robinson
plu...@robinson-west.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 10:17 -0700, Patrick J. Timlick wrote:
In my Weird Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's
cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says,
except replace Perl with Python.
-- Pat
A few problems with this.
1. SpamCannibal and EasyTCP require perl, not python.
2. The Slackware 10.1 based server is running perl 5.12.1 just fine.
3. Obviously, CentOS's perl 5.8.8 doesn't match.
4. I've already installed perl 5.12.1 as the default on CentOS.
5. I did an rpm -e --nodeps for all of the CentOS perl packages and
then I deleted /usr/lib/perl5 prior to source installation.
Thing is, there has to be a way to do this and if there isn't, there
should be an explanation why.
Yes, interfaces change and things break. RHEL5/Centos5 is at the end
of the major update period.
We will probably get one more with major fixes that are not security
related after RHEL6 comes out
at the end of the year.
When perl 6 is finished, will people
still prefer python? I don't understand why people want
to leave perl for python.
Depends. I find python is easier to read.
If Redhat has done something strange to
perl, what did Redhat do?
Can I duplicate this with the newer source
code to be compatible with CentOS 5.x perl and perl 5.12.1 on the
slackware based server?
The tarball for the 5.12.1 and the source rpm. stick the two together
and start building.
Oh, btw, start figuring out what all the patch files do as these were
probably pushed up stream
but you don't know until you look at each one.
The slackware server is nfs root based, so
please don't suggest that I upgrade.
The reason for using a distro like Centos is similar to/and why people
use Redhat is for stability.
Moving perl to something that breaks existing working programs is not
in the cards.
Centos follows the exact same packages.
The idea of leaving the base perl and building/installing the newer
version is very reasonable as
it won't break things that worked before like vim (and others). If
you need 5.12.1 for EasyTCP
then place in /usr/local/{bin,lib} as needed and change the few places
in EasyTCP to point to
the new version of perl.
If you really want to do things like replace a major language that has
dependencies in dozens of packages.
Go for it. Be prepared for a lot of bumps on the way. Do it on a
machine you don't care about as when
you get it to the point that none of the major programs that use perl
work, re-install from scratch and start over
learning from your mistakes. That the beauty of of Open Source, you
are free to do what you want with it.
I'm tempted to install perl 5.8.8 via yum on CentOS, but this won't
match what I have on the Slackware server and it is older. Is there
a way to install the standard perl to a non standard area to study
it somehow so I can figure out what RedHat did to it?
Grab the source rpm files from
http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/enterprise/5Server/en/os/SRPMS/
EasyTCP isn't working on the CentOS server with perl 5.12.1, I get a
lot of unintialized value errors and I don't know why.
Ask the author. If you ask a question in the right way, with enough
detail. You will
probably get a useful answer.
Isn't perl capable of emulating older versions of itself?
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Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Larry Brigman larry.brig...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Patrick J. Timlick p.j.timl...@ieee.org wrote: In my Wierd Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. Nice jab at Perl. Trying to upgrade Python from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6 on a Distro like Centos 5 is really painful. Not really worth the effort to do a full replacement. Are you sure that's a jab at Perl? I read it as saying that when upgrading Python you can run into the same headaches/problems as when trying to upgrade Perl. So just another bit of anecdotal evidence that you need to be careful when trying to change the defaults that a system ships with. Erik ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:45:30AM -0700, Larry Brigman wrote: On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Patrick J. Timlick p.j.timl...@ieee.org wrote: In my Wierd Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. Nice jab at Perl. Trying to upgrade Python from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6 on a Distro like Centos 5 is really painful. Not really worth the effort to do a full replacement. Some are misunderstanding Pat. He did not mean replacing system Perl with system Python. He endorsed my suggestion regards Perl. His suggestion was to s/Perl/Python/ to my message and treat Python the same way. That is, leave /usr/bin/python alone and make upgrades to /usr/local/bin/python . A wise extension of a basic philosophy - let updates manage the distro, make improvements to /usr/local . While a dependency-free distro would be a nice dream (why oh why can't dependencies be managed per individual tool, not whole systems?), in reality a change to one tool affects many others. I run distros, rather than roll my own, because I'm relying on The Upstream Vendor to do the regression testing for me. I suspect there are other tools in the distro that should be left alone, with upgrades going into /usr/local/bin instead. Perhaps the C compiler. Other suggestions? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
At the risk of being misunderstood, again, I can confirm that it was not a jab at Perl. In fact, I was warning that similar cautions and solutions apply to Python as those described by Keith for Perl. -- Pat On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Erik Lane erikl...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Larry Brigman larry.brig...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Patrick J. Timlick p.j.timl...@ieee.org wrote: In my Wierd Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. Nice jab at Perl. Trying to upgrade Python from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6 on a Distro like Centos 5 is really painful. Not really worth the effort to do a full replacement. Are you sure that's a jab at Perl? I read it as saying that when upgrading Python you can run into the same headaches/problems as when trying to upgrade Perl. So just another bit of anecdotal evidence that you need to be careful when trying to change the defaults that a system ships with. Erik ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- p.j.timl...@ieee.org www.timlick.com 503-476-3119 10990 NE Paren Springs Rd. Dundee OR 97115 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
Finally, someone who understands me. -- Pat On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Keith Lofstrom kei...@kl-ic.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:45:30AM -0700, Larry Brigman wrote: On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Patrick J. Timlick p.j.timl...@ieee.org wrote: In my Wierd Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. Nice jab at Perl. Trying to upgrade Python from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6 on a Distro like Centos 5 is really painful. Not really worth the effort to do a full replacement. Some are misunderstanding Pat. He did not mean replacing system Perl with system Python. He endorsed my suggestion regards Perl. His suggestion was to s/Perl/Python/ to my message and treat Python the same way. That is, leave /usr/bin/python alone and make upgrades to /usr/local/bin/python . A wise extension of a basic philosophy - let updates manage the distro, make improvements to /usr/local . While a dependency-free distro would be a nice dream (why oh why can't dependencies be managed per individual tool, not whole systems?), in reality a change to one tool affects many others. I run distros, rather than roll my own, because I'm relying on The Upstream Vendor to do the regression testing for me. I suspect there are other tools in the distro that should be left alone, with upgrades going into /usr/local/bin instead. Perhaps the C compiler. Other suggestions? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- p.j.timl...@ieee.org www.timlick.com 503-476-3119 10990 NE Paren Springs Rd. Dundee OR 97115 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Patrick J. Timlick p.j.timl...@ieee.org wrote: At the risk of being misunderstood, again, I can confirm that it was not a jab at Perl. In fact, I was warning that similar cautions and solutions apply to Python as those described by Keith for Perl. Sorry for confusing the issue. I know that on RHEL/Centos most of the automation/admin tools are written in python and replacing/upgrading it with a new version is really a bad idea unless you want to go back to editing files with ed. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 07:39:26PM -0700, Michael C. Robinson wrote: It goes without saying, Perl-5.8.8 is long in the tooth. If you download Perl 5 these days, the current version is 5.12.1 and Leave the system Perl alone ( /usr/bin/perl ). Especially the redhat version, they messed it up to match their expectations. Let rpm upgrades take care of any improvements added by redhat to that, but otherwise keep the cotton-pickin hands off, or Wierd Things Will Happen. For everything else, install the Perl of your dreams in /usr/local/bin/perl , and modify any scripts that are hardcoded to /usr/bin/perl that you want to use it. Since binaries in /usr/local/bin are used in preference to /usr/bin , many scripts will use the local version. Besides keeping all the redhat perl scripts working, this also leaves you with a version of perl on the system that may be bent but is unlikely to get broken. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
In my Wierd Things That Happen experience, one should heed Keith's cautions and advice when attempting to upgrade Python. Do just as he says, except replace Perl with Python. -- Pat On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Keith Lofstrom kei...@kl-ic.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 07:39:26PM -0700, Michael C. Robinson wrote: It goes without saying, Perl-5.8.8 is long in the tooth. If you download Perl 5 these days, the current version is 5.12.1 and Leave the system Perl alone ( /usr/bin/perl ). Especially the redhat version, they messed it up to match their expectations. Let rpm upgrades take care of any improvements added by redhat to that, but otherwise keep the cotton-pickin hands off, or Wierd Things Will Happen. For everything else, install the Perl of your dreams in /usr/local/bin/perl , and modify any scripts that are hardcoded to /usr/bin/perl that you want to use it. Since binaries in /usr/local/bin are used in preference to /usr/bin , many scripts will use the local version. Besides keeping all the redhat perl scripts working, this also leaves you with a version of perl on the system that may be bent but is unlikely to get broken. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- Your Ideas in Silicon Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- p.j.timl...@ieee.org www.timlick.com 503-476-3119 10990 NE Paren Springs Rd. Dundee OR 97115 ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Using a new perl on CentOS...
It goes without saying, Perl-5.8.8 is long in the tooth. If you download Perl 5 these days, the current version is 5.12.1 and there is an upgrade via CPAN to 5.12.2. Sadly, force uninstalling Perl 5.8.8 via rpm -e --nodeps breaks vim and possibly other tools in CentOS 5.5. I did so anyways and installed from source Perl 5.12.1. How do I actually make this work though? I added /usr/lib/perl5/5.12.1/i686-linux-thread-multi-ld/CORE/ to /etc/ld.so.conf to get vim working again. I'm wondering if important tools on CentOS are hard coded to expect Perl 5.8.8 or if worse a Perl 5.8.8 bug is important? Net::EasyTCP doesn't work after replacing Perl 5.8.8. SpamCannibal doesn't work in the sense that dbtarpit exits prematurely, but that may not be a Perl issue. Strangely enough, MailFilter does work. I'm on the SpamCannibal mailing list, but I don't think that anyone is home there. How does Perl handle finding it's libraries etcetera? Do I need to add anything else to /etc/ld.so.conf to get things working? Anyone know why I'm getting the following: [r...@xerxes masqc]# ./local_internet_on.bash bluejay direct on Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2798. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2798. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $_ in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 2811. Use of uninitialized value $module in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1632. Use of uninitialized value $module in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1635. Use of uninitialized value $module in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1639. Use of uninitialized value $module in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1632. Use of uninitialized value $module in string eq at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1635. Use of uninitialized value $module in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.1/Net/EasyTCP.pm line 1639. Sending bluejay... Sending on ... Sending bluejay.robinson-west.com... Sending 192.168.5.35... Sending direct... Is there a way to fix the uninitialized value errors??? Perhaps something isn't being found??? ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
