Re: Question about memory for a Dell
Cue the probable: Apple may be expensive, but I rarely have failures with it. My wife's 2011 Macbook Pro was just updated with 16GB Ram and a 255 GB SSD - it has no issues doing anything she needs it to. That being said, it is no longer "eligible" for "feature" updates via MacOS, although it is clearly capable of handling the load. I stick with Apple for my desktop (given the choice) and Linux for my servers :) My biggest heartache is seeing that the death of the hackintosh is on the horizon with switching to the ARM CPU set, but who knows? If they can get Linux working on it, and I've seen large interest in getting Linux on the M1 chipset, maybe they'll find a way to put MacOS on off the shelf components as we've been able to do with x86/64 - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.sc...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:01 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > I definitely won't be buying an Apple anything. I can't afford them. > Dmidecode tells me the DIMMS are 4096 MB, 1600 MT/s and made by > Hynix/Hyundai. That makes it easy to figure out what I need. Thanks to you > and Todd Cole for replying. I > On 1/14/21 8:01 PM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: > > Memory hasn't been as finicky in years than I found it 10-20 years or more > now, most seem fairly tolerant as long as you match up specs. > > If using windoze, install cpu-z and just match the specs, speed, > unbuffered, ddr-class, etc. Likewise using dmidecode under linux, just > match spec what is there now. If using a mac, just pay whatever overpriced > ram apple wants to sell you because you or your sponsor can obviously > afford it. Probably a better way under mac, I'm sure google knows most > sticks are probably compatible there too realistically. > > I do miss when there used to be the technology swap meets over in Mesa > here to find old/dated hardware for stuff like this, I think that all moved > to Craigslist, now Letgo and others, always ebay if nothing else. I always > buy used ram, particularly when talking the more pricey large ECC server > stuff, really haven't had complaints personally doing so. Last time I put > 128gb in my desktop, I did so for around a grand from ebay getting old > server dimms from a retired cisco ucs box, same memory, which from dell > would have been some $8k of absurdity. > > -mb > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 4:11 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> Recently I bought a Dell Optiplex 7010. Today I started looking for >> some more memory (2 4GB DIMMs) to put in it. Some said it was for the >> Dell while others didn't claim to be for a specific model. I did >> notice that the ones claiming to be for a Dell were about twice the cost >> of those that didn't and I don't want to pay the extra if I can avoid >> it. I'm sending links to a couple of the choices. Can someone tell me >> if there's any difference between the two? Thanks. >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y69nepup >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y54gjnfz >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Question about memory for a Dell
I would be fascinated by seeing Linux running on that level of an arm SoC instead of the glorified mobile shoved in laptop silicon. For ram, My suggestion is to match the speed = to or just above. The modern ram is semi programmable now which makes it flexible, and to some extent dynamically flexible. If you do the same match the SPD timings and latency, as you want to at least keep the same level of performance on your new ram compared to the old. Otherwise, you can push things about all over the place without much issue (as of ddr3 and later) unless you are overclocking or somesuch, which it sounds like you are not. This is from personal experience with the Optiplex 7010. On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 8:11 AM Thomas Scott via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > Cue the probable: Apple may be expensive, but I rarely have failures with > it. My wife's 2011 Macbook Pro was just updated with 16GB Ram and a 255 GB > SSD - it has no issues doing anything she needs it to. That being said, it > is no longer "eligible" for "feature" updates via MacOS, although it is > clearly capable of handling the load. > > I stick with Apple for my desktop (given the choice) and Linux for my > servers :) > > My biggest heartache is seeing that the death of the hackintosh is on the > horizon with switching to the ARM CPU set, but who knows? If they can get > Linux working on it, and I've seen large interest in getting Linux on the > M1 chipset, maybe they'll find a way to put MacOS on off the shelf > components as we've been able to do with x86/64 > > - Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.sc...@gmail.com > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:01 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> I definitely won't be buying an Apple anything. I can't afford them. >> Dmidecode tells me the DIMMS are 4096 MB, 1600 MT/s and made by >> Hynix/Hyundai. That makes it easy to figure out what I need. Thanks to you >> and Todd Cole for replying. I >> On 1/14/21 8:01 PM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote: >> >> Memory hasn't been as finicky in years than I found it 10-20 years or >> more now, most seem fairly tolerant as long as you match up specs. >> >> If using windoze, install cpu-z and just match the specs, speed, >> unbuffered, ddr-class, etc. Likewise using dmidecode under linux, just >> match spec what is there now. If using a mac, just pay whatever overpriced >> ram apple wants to sell you because you or your sponsor can obviously >> afford it. Probably a better way under mac, I'm sure google knows most >> sticks are probably compatible there too realistically. >> >> I do miss when there used to be the technology swap meets over in Mesa >> here to find old/dated hardware for stuff like this, I think that all moved >> to Craigslist, now Letgo and others, always ebay if nothing else. I always >> buy used ram, particularly when talking the more pricey large ECC server >> stuff, really haven't had complaints personally doing so. Last time I put >> 128gb in my desktop, I did so for around a grand from ebay getting old >> server dimms from a retired cisco ucs box, same memory, which from dell >> would have been some $8k of absurdity. >> >> -mb >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 4:11 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> Recently I bought a Dell Optiplex 7010. Today I started looking for >>> some more memory (2 4GB DIMMs) to put in it. Some said it was for the >>> Dell while others didn't claim to be for a specific model. I did >>> notice that the ones claiming to be for a Dell were about twice the cost >>> of those that didn't and I don't want to pay the extra if I can avoid >>> it. I'm sending links to a couple of the choices. Can someone tell me >>> if there's any difference between the two? Thanks. >>> >>> https://tinyurl.com/y69nepup >>> >>> https://tinyurl.com/y54gjnfz >>> >>> --- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail >> settings:https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit
Re: Question about memory for a Dell
>> I would be fascinated by seeing Linux running on that level of an arm SoC instead of the glorified mobile shoved in laptop silicon. I think the arm-based macs are probably great for non-power users that get by with 8gb of ram (ie. most mac users), run no vm's (including Fusion for windoze office, etc), and in general don't do much that isn't a basic app. Same folks that love to show everyone how they function on an ipad exclusively as ultimate fanbois, but ultimately don't do much with a computer anyways. Everyone else still needs Fusion+Windoze, windoze apps, etc in an enterprise as microsoft and others still treat them as a second-class citizen. Plus I can't imagine these are very good for video or audio editing (yet), which others seem to love macs for, but maybe when they get to the 64 core chips, some more (expandable) ram, and everyone rewrites/optimizes their software for arm instruction instead of intel. Apple devices always seem more of a fashion statement than anything imho, but whatever one likes... It's as much a religious debate at this point as linux vs. windoze. -mb --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Question about memory for a Dell
To be honest, there is some significant power in those M1 chips Much more than it would seem. Linus tech tips does a decent job of looking at the performance and workload and it is rather impressive for a first go-round. On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> I would be fascinated by seeing Linux running on that level of an arm > SoC instead of the glorified mobile shoved in laptop silicon. > > I think the arm-based macs are probably great for non-power users that get > by with 8gb of ram (ie. most mac users), run no vm's (including Fusion for > windoze office, etc), and in general don't do much that isn't a basic app. > Same folks that love to show everyone how they function on an ipad > exclusively as ultimate fanbois, but ultimately don't do much with a > computer anyways. > > Everyone else still needs Fusion+Windoze, windoze apps, etc in an > enterprise as microsoft and others still treat them as a second-class > citizen. Plus I can't imagine these are very good for video or audio > editing (yet), which others seem to love macs for, but maybe when they get > to the 64 core chips, some more (expandable) ram, and everyone > rewrites/optimizes their software for arm instruction instead of intel. > > Apple devices always seem more of a fashion statement than anything imho, > but whatever one likes... It's as much a religious debate at this point as > linux vs. windoze. > > -mb > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Question about memory for a Dell
Most everything I've seen around the M1 chip come across hacker-news (can't watch Linus Tech Tips and not get annoyed by his O-face anymore) say it's heavily software dependent, which great, macos supports, linux if/when supported probably won't, but as usually apple optimizes their os around their hardware quite specifically. Some testing of windoze arm has even said it runs better on M1 hardware than microsoft arm surface hardware too, so who knows, but I suspect raw linux would run like ass if/when getting to work finally. If more arm vendors follow suit, perhaps, but until then apple hardware will be another walled garden beholden to their os alone. I've looked for years to get some hardware such as a tablet or other thin-ish hardware device to be a go-between between my human interface and my hardware systems, but I've never found a substitute for just being able to run different OS's and things on hardware as slim as my laptops. Android tablets are mostly useless, ipads marginally better, but still nothing replaces a native hardware pc solution, where simply I need cpu+memory+disk, and lots of it. I'll never get that from arm boxes I think. My next laptop will likely be a ryzen/threadripper setup and a real gpu. Intel+nvidia with prime has been an abortion from go some 10 years ago, can't get worse, but buying an 8/16gb fixed (ie. soldered memory) mac with an arm proc/gpu will likely never satiate my need even in a laptop with constantly running separate windows/linux vm's constantly. Something I'd give to a 10 year old or my grandmother to play bejewelled, fakebook, and tweet with twits, sure. -mb On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:27 PM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > To be honest, there is some significant power in those M1 chips Much more > than it would seem. Linus tech tips does a decent job of looking at the > performance and workload and it is rather impressive for a first go-round. > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> >> I would be fascinated by seeing Linux running on that level of an arm >> SoC instead of the glorified mobile shoved in laptop silicon. >> >> I think the arm-based macs are probably great for non-power users that >> get by with 8gb of ram (ie. most mac users), run no vm's (including Fusion >> for windoze office, etc), and in general don't do much that isn't a basic >> app. Same folks that love to show everyone how they function on an ipad >> exclusively as ultimate fanbois, but ultimately don't do much with a >> computer anyways. >> >> Everyone else still needs Fusion+Windoze, windoze apps, etc in an >> enterprise as microsoft and others still treat them as a second-class >> citizen. Plus I can't imagine these are very good for video or audio >> editing (yet), which others seem to love macs for, but maybe when they get >> to the 64 core chips, some more (expandable) ram, and everyone >> rewrites/optimizes their software for arm instruction instead of intel. >> >> Apple devices always seem more of a fashion statement than anything imho, >> but whatever one likes... It's as much a religious debate at this point as >> linux vs. windoze. >> >> -mb >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > -- > A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > > Stephen > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Question about memory for a Dell
I cannot disagree with any of that. I was not in a position to wait for a ryzen+High end GPU so I still have an intel i9 and Nvidia laptop. I ended up getting one of the 10th gen intel ThinkPad t15g and I have to say I am quite happy with it among laptops. Finding a laptop with 4 SODIMM slots and a modular discrete GPUI challenging for less than 4K is a bit challenging. I have been without a proper desktop for 3 years now and I am missing it but it is not quite as painful yet. I do find it interesting that chromeOS is absorbing the android tablet space and that combined with the ability to get to the Linux shell underneath. the issue with android tablets and MOST Chromebooks is that they are cut down to the least possible cost so the ram/CPU combination is so dramatically underpowered they are just shy of useless. For example, the first-gen Samsung Chromebook plus with their Exynos CPU and 4GB ram was just very pretty and more cumbersome to use than my phone. And I think that is going to be the issue with any robust ARM computing. AMD has some interesting ideas in play that I am kind of excited to see what they do with it. On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 1:45 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > Most everything I've seen around the M1 chip come across hacker-news > (can't watch Linus Tech Tips and not get annoyed by his O-face anymore) say > it's heavily software dependent, which great, macos supports, linux if/when > supported probably won't, but as usually apple optimizes their os around > their hardware quite specifically. Some testing of windoze arm has even > said it runs better on M1 hardware than microsoft arm surface hardware too, > so who knows, but I suspect raw linux would run like ass if/when getting to > work finally. If more arm vendors follow suit, perhaps, but until then > apple hardware will be another walled garden beholden to their os alone. > > I've looked for years to get some hardware such as a tablet or other > thin-ish hardware device to be a go-between between my human interface and > my hardware systems, but I've never found a substitute for just being able > to run different OS's and things on hardware as slim as my laptops. > Android tablets are mostly useless, ipads marginally better, but still > nothing replaces a native hardware pc solution, where simply I need > cpu+memory+disk, and lots of it. I'll never get that from arm boxes I > think. > > My next laptop will likely be a ryzen/threadripper setup and a real gpu. > Intel+nvidia with prime has been an abortion from go some 10 years ago, > can't get worse, but buying an 8/16gb fixed (ie. soldered memory) mac with > an arm proc/gpu will likely never satiate my need even in a laptop with > constantly running separate windows/linux vm's constantly. Something I'd > give to a 10 year old or my grandmother to play bejewelled, fakebook, and > tweet with twits, sure. > > -mb > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:27 PM Stephen Partington via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > >> To be honest, there is some significant power in those M1 chips Much more >> than it would seem. Linus tech tips does a decent job of looking at the >> performance and workload and it is rather impressive for a first go-round. >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 12:05 PM Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss < >> plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: >> >>> >> I would be fascinated by seeing Linux running on that level of an arm >>> SoC instead of the glorified mobile shoved in laptop silicon. >>> >>> I think the arm-based macs are probably great for non-power users that >>> get by with 8gb of ram (ie. most mac users), run no vm's (including Fusion >>> for windoze office, etc), and in general don't do much that isn't a basic >>> app. Same folks that love to show everyone how they function on an ipad >>> exclusively as ultimate fanbois, but ultimately don't do much with a >>> computer anyways. >>> >>> Everyone else still needs Fusion+Windoze, windoze apps, etc in an >>> enterprise as microsoft and others still treat them as a second-class >>> citizen. Plus I can't imagine these are very good for video or audio >>> editing (yet), which others seem to love macs for, but maybe when they get >>> to the 64 core chips, some more (expandable) ram, and everyone >>> rewrites/optimizes their software for arm instruction instead of intel. >>> >>> Apple devices always seem more of a fashion statement than anything >>> imho, but whatever one likes... It's as much a religious debate at this >>> point as linux vs. windoze. >>> >>> -mb >>> >>> --- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> >> >> -- >> A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from >> rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit th
