Re: Server CPU
> 1) a vCPU is akin to a process. Yes > 2) One can configure lots of VMs that will share the CPUs. Yes > 3) Do not overload the server by adding too many VMs that all want > resources. I assume top can be used to evaluate the amount of load on > the server. That's correct, you should see one "/usr/bin/kvm" process per vcpu if you're using proxmox > 3) When I configure a VM the amount of RAM is static (not shared). If I > have 16GB of RAM then I realistically can only have around 12 - 14GB of > RAM in use at any given time. That would be running VMs. I can have > tons of VMs that are not running and not using resources/RAM and their > RAM is no counted. Its the active VM's that count. RAM is not shared. The RAM *can* be shared but that's dependent on the virtual machine being configured properly. Linux, at least, automatically detects if it's running in a virtual machine and enables what's called "ballooning" to give back unused ram to the host. So again, as long as you're able to keep the in use memory under your total memory you should be fine. A good rule of thumb though is, under normal load/usage, your in use memory shouldn't exceed 50% of your total memory. If you're going to run a Windows VM you'll want to make sure to install the virtio drivers, of which Fedora provides a compiled version of: https://fedorapeople.org/groups/virt/virtio-win/direct-downloads/archive-virtio/virtio-win-0.1.229-1/ > 4) The amount of file space allotted to a VM is also static and is taken > up even when the VM is off. For example if I have 10 VMs that are > assigned 20GB of disk space each, then that would total 200GB that are > allocated and are always assigned and not shared with the other VMs. Disk space is also tricky, you can either pre-allocate it, in which case you're correct, or use "thin provisioning", where the VM will only take up as much space on the host as used in the VM. Now, that space will grow over time but will never shrink on its own, even if you delete stuff from the VM. If you think of it as an SSD that needs a periodic trim, it functions similarly. Coincidentally, if you use Proxmox with either "raw" disk images or use ZFS, then you'll be able to issue a trim command from the guest, which will release any unused disk space back to the host. I personally run a trim on all my VMs once every few months or so, or when I notice that a VM is taking up much more space than is actually in-use in the VM. You'll probably find some information saying that pre-allocating disk space is better because it performs better, however I think that advice is outdated especially if you're going to run the VMs on a good quality SSD or NVME drive. On Fri, Jul 21, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote: > On 2023-07-20 16:25, Todd Cole via PLUG-discuss wrote: > > I use a lot of proxmox servers and very happy with them most are for > > small office use running a router, win server and samba file server > > and a win 10 for remote users to vpn into > > most of the hardware is used dell 4-6th gen I-7 (cheap 4 cores 8 > > virtual) with zfs raid 1 2 SSD's for redundancy and a spinner HDD for > > back up 32-64 gb ram and meet my needs > > with ease. both at home and work. > > > > I have used rack servers but they are hard to fit on a shelf, HOT and > > use a lot of power and sound like a jet taking off. (I have a few to > > donate free) > > my point is do not over think or spend money to build a home lab or > > hardware that you will need to replace due to your use case. > > I still have one on a duel core 8 gb ram 2 250GB spinning disks that I > > use as a router and zoneminder camera DVR in a un air conditioned > > vacant office it just chugs along in 118 heat > > I have a twin to it that is all set up ready to run that I would be > > willing donate also. Todd > > > > --- > I'm starting to understand what a vCPU is and that I really do not need > a bunch of cores and threads. I have an old Dell i5 with 4 cores, 4 > threads, 16GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. > > I'm a PHP developer and use the Proxmox box for testing and development. > Currently I have one LAMP VM configured. > > This is what I come away with from this thread: > > 1) a vCPU is akin to a process. > 2) One can configure lots of VMs that will share the CPUs. > 3) Do not overload the server by adding too many VMs that all want > resources. I assume top can be used to evaluate the amount of load on > the server. > 3) When I configure a VM the amount of RAM is static (not shared). If I > have 16GB of RAM then I realistically can only have around 12 - 14GB of > RAM in use at any given time. That would be running VMs. I can have > tons of VMs that are not running and not using resources/RAM and their > RAM is no counted. Its the active VM's that count. RAM is not shared. > 4) The amount of file space allotted to a VM is also static and is taken > up even when the VM is off. For example if
Re: Server CPU
On 2023-07-20 16:25, Todd Cole via PLUG-discuss wrote: I use a lot of proxmox servers and very happy with them most are for small office use running a router, win server and samba file server and a win 10 for remote users to vpn into most of the hardware is used dell 4-6th gen I-7 (cheap 4 cores 8 virtual) with zfs raid 1 2 SSD's for redundancy and a spinner HDD for back up 32-64 gb ram and meet my needs with ease. both at home and work. I have used rack servers but they are hard to fit on a shelf, HOT and use a lot of power and sound like a jet taking off. (I have a few to donate free) my point is do not over think or spend money to build a home lab or hardware that you will need to replace due to your use case. I still have one on a duel core 8 gb ram 2 250GB spinning disks that I use as a router and zoneminder camera DVR in a un air conditioned vacant office it just chugs along in 118 heat I have a twin to it that is all set up ready to run that I would be willing donate also. Todd --- I'm starting to understand what a vCPU is and that I really do not need a bunch of cores and threads. I have an old Dell i5 with 4 cores, 4 threads, 16GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. I'm a PHP developer and use the Proxmox box for testing and development. Currently I have one LAMP VM configured. This is what I come away with from this thread: 1) a vCPU is akin to a process. 2) One can configure lots of VMs that will share the CPUs. 3) Do not overload the server by adding too many VMs that all want resources. I assume top can be used to evaluate the amount of load on the server. 3) When I configure a VM the amount of RAM is static (not shared). If I have 16GB of RAM then I realistically can only have around 12 - 14GB of RAM in use at any given time. That would be running VMs. I can have tons of VMs that are not running and not using resources/RAM and their RAM is no counted. Its the active VM's that count. RAM is not shared. 4) The amount of file space allotted to a VM is also static and is taken up even when the VM is off. For example if I have 10 VMs that are assigned 20GB of disk space each, then that would total 200GB that are allocated and are always assigned and not shared with the other VMs. --- OK, another question. If commercial rack mount servers are so noisy and use a lot of electricity... then why not use consumer grade computers? Around 2005/2006 I was working as a level 1 at iPower. A manager showed us some pictures of the server room in downtown L.A. and they had a ton of HP mini towers on storage racks that were being used as hardware servers for hosting. I think they called them dedicated servers. --- On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:09 PM George Toft via PLUG-discuss wrote: Be very careful with ESX. I know someone who bought a random server and ESX7 was not supported. It used to run on anything, now, not so much. Check the support matrix before you buy. Regards, George Toft On 7/20/2023 1:12 PM, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss wrote: Hello, I appreciate this topic. I have been wondering for a while now if there is an affordable home server out there for EXSi and such. Is there any way for someone to come up with a few choices for people like me? Is there a low end, mid range, and high end home server for someone to list with parts or suggested parts? thanks, Greg On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 01:01:13 PM MST, Keith Smith via PLUG-discuss wrote: Thanks!! On 2023-07-20 11:36, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote: I personally wouldn't even go for a used server. They're generally loud, and even when they aren't they use much more electricity than what you would get from a consumer platform. There's really no benefit unless you have room in your house to make a real server room with racks and the electrical capacity to go along with it. On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, at 10:59 AM, Stephen Partington wrote: the downside for these processors is their mainboards are still very pricy to buy. much more than the CPU itself. you are almost better off looking for and buying a refurbished server which you can get for almost ludicrously inexpensive prices. On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 1:56 PM Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote: The CPU's cheap because it's old and no one wants them anymore -- it's of the same generation as 6000 series intel processors (i.e. skylake). It also uses a server socket, so the only motherboards you're going to be able to find are server motherboards. Those are going to be expensive and/or have other quirks, such as requiring a vendor specific heatsink, or a vendor-specific power supply, or take 5 minutes to start up, etc. You'd be better off spending money on a last-gen cpu and motherboard, for instance here's a combination that is relatively cheap: $174 for an i5-12400, which according to cpubenchmark.net [1] [1] is nearly 30% faster than the Xeon you linked (score of 19501 vs 15146, much faster single-core score as
