Re: pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
On 2020-11-21 23:56, Steve Litt via PLUG-discuss wrote: On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:58:17 -0700 Matt Graham wrote: The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your computer won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] There's a simple executable called apulse that gives pulseaudio facilities to its argument. For instance: apulse firefox This was the first thing I tried. It didn't work. The preceding runs firefox with pulseaudio underneath, but that pulseaudio is invisible to everything else on your system. Not really. apulse messes with LD_LIBRARY_PATH so that its arguments see a "fake" libpulse.so which acts as a pass-through to ALSA. This is supposed to work in some fashion, but it didn't for me. I think this is actually because on Gentoo, apulse and pulseaudio cannot be installed at the same time. Also because there is apparently a thing you have to do that was never explained properly in the documentation that I read: You have to do "patchelf --set-rpath /usr/lib64/apulse /usr/lib64/firefox/libxul.so" (or wherever your libxul.so file is.) I'd try this, but everything works properly now and rebuilding firefox takes 2 hours. -- Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress There is no Darkness in Eternity But only Light too dim for us to see. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 07:58:17 -0700 Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss wrote: > The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your > computer won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] I've been > trying to avoid pulseaudio for various reasons.[1] But since > Thanksgiving is canceled this year, I'll have to see the family > virtually, and why not do that with bigbluebutton.org ? This led me > to a twisty maze of unwarranted assumptions and outright stupidity, > which I will try to summarize below. TL;DR: pulseaudio hates analog > audio and making analog audio work properly requires editing config > files by hand. For years, I've found pulseaudio to be a mass of invisible mutes. I use Void Linux, which doesn't compile everything assuming systemd and pulseaudio. My firefox 83.0 works just fine with no pulseaudio installed. So does most of my other stuff. There's a simple executable called apulse that gives pulseaudio facilities to its argument. For instance: apulse firefox The preceding runs firefox with pulseaudio underneath, but that pulseaudio is invisible to everything else on your system. By the way, my finding is I can use Jitsi on Chromium to video conference with families. From what I understand, Widnows people use MS Edge browser to join the discussion. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
Use of pulse virtual "monitoring" interfaces might be useful for muxing audio, and can be done in the pavucontrol ui. I used to have these crap foscam ip cameras that only worked via IE/DirectX drivel, and occasionally would entertain/torment my birds in another room with this where I had a camera monitoring them. I'd start the mic in IE on my windoze vm, take the mic input from the vm and redirect to an audio monitor output stream of mp3's playing on my main desktop, and worked pretty well to mux between my parent desktop and even my windoze vm. The monitor i/o's are powerful like this and useful, might be easier than you're doing to link one input to another output. Install pavucontrol, the original volume app for pulse, it gives you the most options for control outside the os bastard versions they build for "simple"(ton) audio control. I know at least the audio control in kde is crap compared. -mb On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 7:50 AM Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your > computer won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] I've been > trying to avoid pulseaudio for various reasons.[1] But since > Thanksgiving is canceled this year, I'll have to see the family > virtually, and why not do that with bigbluebutton.org ? This led me to > a twisty maze of unwarranted assumptions and outright stupidity, which I > will try to summarize below. TL;DR: pulseaudio hates analog audio and > making analog audio work properly requires editing config files by hand. > > I first tried building pulseaudio and firefox with the pulseaudio USE > flag on my laptop. This worked almost perfectly. I expected this to > work basically identically on my desktop, because both machines use > sound cards that are driven by the snd_hda_intel module. Nope! > > pulseaudio has a strong preference for digital audio. Its > autodetection will select the first digital device it finds as the > default audio output. For me, this was the HDMI output... which is > hooked up to the TV, which is almost never on. My actual sound card was > also found, but it wasn't the default output, and it was set to output > sound to the iec-958-stereo-output (S/PDIF jack). I do not have > anything plugged in to that. Setting the default output to the analog > sound card didn't work; pulseaudio refused to write any data to the > analog card. > > I found a solution at > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples , link > "Simultaneous HDMI and analog output". If a digital device exists, > pulseaudio refuses to send data to analog devices unless it can *also* > send data to a digital device. This makes no sense. I have no idea how > ordinary users would deal with this problem. The solution was to put > the lines: > > # make pulseaudio work with analog and digital things at > # the same time. Load analog device (NOTE: use aplay -l > # to find the hw: numbers for the device you need, they > # will be displayed as "card X: (name) device Y: and you > # need to put those numbers in there. X and Y for me > # were both 0 because my analog card's first on the > # PCI bus. YMMV.) > load-module module-alsa-sink device=hw:X,Y > load-module module-combine-sink sink_name=combined > set-default-sink combined > > ...up at the top of the /etc/pulse/default.pa file. I have no idea how > Mint/Ubuntu et al would handle this for ordinary users. There is no way > to do any of this with the slightly more user-friendly pavucontrol[2]. > I've had these speakers for 21 years, which may be a bit unusual, but > are people really abandoning analog sound? Regardless, I'm leaving this > here in the hopes that some crawler will find it and some search engine > will lead someone to a quicker fix than the multiple-hour @#%^ing around > I had to do. > > [0] "Select the audio input and output devices that exist and put them > into 2 lists, have user choose speaker/mike from those 2 lists" is > apparently much more difficult with ALSA than with pulseaudio or > whatever OS X/Doze provides. Or the firefox developers are lazy and > clueless. > > [1] Poettering, nuff said. > > [2] Our UX experts have determined that the best way to deal is to > pretend we're a phone! So the menubar doesn't act like a menubar acts > in real applications! Isn't that edgy and disruptive? > > -- > Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress > There is no Darkness in Eternity > But only Light too dim for us to see. > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
Thank you so much for that. On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:13 AM Eric Oyen via PLUG-discuss < plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > Oh joy! > > I really wish the developers had not taken this route with pulse audio. > Because of this, I have had no end of issues when trying to output screen > reader audio to my headphones using a standard stereo audio output. My > machine has SpDIF and HDMI outputs as well as analog, yet I have not been > able to get analog working with any degree of functionality. I literally > have to ssh into that machine and run console based programs because I > can’t interact with that machine directly. > > Thanks for the info on where to locate good example programs. Btw, the > machine in question is my RaspberryPi 3 that I was trying to setup for the > seeing with sound project. > > -Eric > From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Technical difficulties > resolution Dept. > > > > On Nov 20, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss < > plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote: > > > > The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your > computer won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] I've been trying > to avoid pulseaudio for various reasons.[1] But since Thanksgiving is > canceled this year, I'll have to see the family virtually, and why not do > that with bigbluebutton.org ? This led me to a twisty maze of > unwarranted assumptions and outright stupidity, which I will try to > summarize below. TL;DR: pulseaudio hates analog audio and making analog > audio work properly requires editing config files by hand. > > > > I first tried building pulseaudio and firefox with the pulseaudio USE > flag on my laptop. This worked almost perfectly. I expected this to work > basically identically on my desktop, because both machines use sound cards > that are driven by the snd_hda_intel module. Nope! > > > > pulseaudio has a strong preference for digital audio. Its autodetection > will select the first digital device it finds as the default audio output. > For me, this was the HDMI output... which is hooked up to the TV, which is > almost never on. My actual sound card was also found, but it wasn't the > default output, and it was set to output sound to the iec-958-stereo-output > (S/PDIF jack). I do not have anything plugged in to that. Setting the > default output to the analog sound card didn't work; pulseaudio refused to > write any data to the analog card. > > > > I found a solution at > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples , link > "Simultaneous HDMI and analog output". If a digital device exists, > pulseaudio refuses to send data to analog devices unless it can *also* send > data to a digital device. This makes no sense. I have no idea how > ordinary users would deal with this problem. The solution was to put the > lines: > > > > # make pulseaudio work with analog and digital things at > > # the same time. Load analog device (NOTE: use aplay -l > > # to find the hw: numbers for the device you need, they > > # will be displayed as "card X: (name) device Y: and you > > # need to put those numbers in there. X and Y for me > > # were both 0 because my analog card's first on the > > # PCI bus. YMMV.) > > load-module module-alsa-sink device=hw:X,Y > > load-module module-combine-sink sink_name=combined > > set-default-sink combined > > > > ...up at the top of the /etc/pulse/default.pa file. I have no idea how > Mint/Ubuntu et al would handle this for ordinary users. There is no way to > do any of this with the slightly more user-friendly pavucontrol[2]. I've > had these speakers for 21 years, which may be a bit unusual, but are people > really abandoning analog sound? Regardless, I'm leaving this here in the > hopes that some crawler will find it and some search engine will lead > someone to a quicker fix than the multiple-hour @#%^ing around I had to do. > > > > [0] "Select the audio input and output devices that exist and put them > into 2 lists, have user choose speaker/mike from those 2 lists" is > apparently much more difficult with ALSA than with pulseaudio or whatever > OS X/Doze provides. Or the firefox developers are lazy and clueless. > > > > [1] Poettering, nuff said. > > > > [2] Our UX experts have determined that the best way to deal is to > pretend we're a phone! So the menubar doesn't act like a menubar acts in > real applications! Isn't that edgy and disruptive? > > > > -- > > Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress > > There is no Darkness in Eternity > > But only Light too dim for us to see. > > --- > > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change
Re: pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
Oh joy! I really wish the developers had not taken this route with pulse audio. Because of this, I have had no end of issues when trying to output screen reader audio to my headphones using a standard stereo audio output. My machine has SpDIF and HDMI outputs as well as analog, yet I have not been able to get analog working with any degree of functionality. I literally have to ssh into that machine and run console based programs because I can’t interact with that machine directly. Thanks for the info on where to locate good example programs. Btw, the machine in question is my RaspberryPi 3 that I was trying to setup for the seeing with sound project. -Eric From the Central Offices of the Technomage Guild, Technical difficulties resolution Dept. > On Nov 20, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Matt Graham via PLUG-discuss > wrote: > > The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your computer > won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] I've been trying to avoid > pulseaudio for various reasons.[1] But since Thanksgiving is canceled this > year, I'll have to see the family virtually, and why not do that with > bigbluebutton.org ? This led me to a twisty maze of unwarranted assumptions > and outright stupidity, which I will try to summarize below. TL;DR: > pulseaudio hates analog audio and making analog audio work properly requires > editing config files by hand. > > I first tried building pulseaudio and firefox with the pulseaudio USE flag on > my laptop. This worked almost perfectly. I expected this to work basically > identically on my desktop, because both machines use sound cards that are > driven by the snd_hda_intel module. Nope! > > pulseaudio has a strong preference for digital audio. Its autodetection will > select the first digital device it finds as the default audio output. For > me, this was the HDMI output... which is hooked up to the TV, which is almost > never on. My actual sound card was also found, but it wasn't the default > output, and it was set to output sound to the iec-958-stereo-output (S/PDIF > jack). I do not have anything plugged in to that. Setting the default > output to the analog sound card didn't work; pulseaudio refused to write any > data to the analog card. > > I found a solution at > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples , link "Simultaneous > HDMI and analog output". If a digital device exists, pulseaudio refuses to > send data to analog devices unless it can *also* send data to a digital > device. This makes no sense. I have no idea how ordinary users would deal > with this problem. The solution was to put the lines: > > # make pulseaudio work with analog and digital things at > # the same time. Load analog device (NOTE: use aplay -l > # to find the hw: numbers for the device you need, they > # will be displayed as "card X: (name) device Y: and you > # need to put those numbers in there. X and Y for me > # were both 0 because my analog card's first on the > # PCI bus. YMMV.) > load-module module-alsa-sink device=hw:X,Y > load-module module-combine-sink sink_name=combined > set-default-sink combined > > ...up at the top of the /etc/pulse/default.pa file. I have no idea how > Mint/Ubuntu et al would handle this for ordinary users. There is no way to > do any of this with the slightly more user-friendly pavucontrol[2]. I've had > these speakers for 21 years, which may be a bit unusual, but are people > really abandoning analog sound? Regardless, I'm leaving this here in the > hopes that some crawler will find it and some search engine will lead someone > to a quicker fix than the multiple-hour @#%^ing around I had to do. > > [0] "Select the audio input and output devices that exist and put them into 2 > lists, have user choose speaker/mike from those 2 lists" is apparently much > more difficult with ALSA than with pulseaudio or whatever OS X/Doze provides. > Or the firefox developers are lazy and clueless. > > [1] Poettering, nuff said. > > [2] Our UX experts have determined that the best way to deal is to pretend > we're a phone! So the menubar doesn't act like a menubar acts in real > applications! Isn't that edgy and disruptive? > > -- > Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress > There is no Darkness in Eternity > But only Light too dim for us to see. > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
pulseaudio, analog sound output, and WHAT?
The firefox developers have basically said, "The microphone on your computer won't work at all unless you use pulseaudio."[0] I've been trying to avoid pulseaudio for various reasons.[1] But since Thanksgiving is canceled this year, I'll have to see the family virtually, and why not do that with bigbluebutton.org ? This led me to a twisty maze of unwarranted assumptions and outright stupidity, which I will try to summarize below. TL;DR: pulseaudio hates analog audio and making analog audio work properly requires editing config files by hand. I first tried building pulseaudio and firefox with the pulseaudio USE flag on my laptop. This worked almost perfectly. I expected this to work basically identically on my desktop, because both machines use sound cards that are driven by the snd_hda_intel module. Nope! pulseaudio has a strong preference for digital audio. Its autodetection will select the first digital device it finds as the default audio output. For me, this was the HDMI output... which is hooked up to the TV, which is almost never on. My actual sound card was also found, but it wasn't the default output, and it was set to output sound to the iec-958-stereo-output (S/PDIF jack). I do not have anything plugged in to that. Setting the default output to the analog sound card didn't work; pulseaudio refused to write any data to the analog card. I found a solution at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples , link "Simultaneous HDMI and analog output". If a digital device exists, pulseaudio refuses to send data to analog devices unless it can *also* send data to a digital device. This makes no sense. I have no idea how ordinary users would deal with this problem. The solution was to put the lines: # make pulseaudio work with analog and digital things at # the same time. Load analog device (NOTE: use aplay -l # to find the hw: numbers for the device you need, they # will be displayed as "card X: (name) device Y: and you # need to put those numbers in there. X and Y for me # were both 0 because my analog card's first on the # PCI bus. YMMV.) load-module module-alsa-sink device=hw:X,Y load-module module-combine-sink sink_name=combined set-default-sink combined ...up at the top of the /etc/pulse/default.pa file. I have no idea how Mint/Ubuntu et al would handle this for ordinary users. There is no way to do any of this with the slightly more user-friendly pavucontrol[2]. I've had these speakers for 21 years, which may be a bit unusual, but are people really abandoning analog sound? Regardless, I'm leaving this here in the hopes that some crawler will find it and some search engine will lead someone to a quicker fix than the multiple-hour @#%^ing around I had to do. [0] "Select the audio input and output devices that exist and put them into 2 lists, have user choose speaker/mike from those 2 lists" is apparently much more difficult with ALSA than with pulseaudio or whatever OS X/Doze provides. Or the firefox developers are lazy and clueless. [1] Poettering, nuff said. [2] Our UX experts have determined that the best way to deal is to pretend we're a phone! So the menubar doesn't act like a menubar acts in real applications! Isn't that edgy and disruptive? -- Crow202 Blog: http://crow202.org/wordpress There is no Darkness in Eternity But only Light too dim for us to see. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
