Re: Scripting help
On Sunday 02 August 2009 03:53:37 pm Shawn Badger wrote: > Same result with and without the -1 :( > I believe it is a L (but lowercase) not a 1 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 50, Issue 1
Thank. This likes it will help quite a bit. Mike > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Lisa Kachold > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:27:48 -0700 > Subject: Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu > Solutions: > > 0) Use nano's ESC ESC o function: > > http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.1/nano.html#Special-Functions > > 1) Alternate editor: > > # sudo apt-get install pico > > Use pico and Control X (save and exit). > Use pico and ESC ESC o > > 2) Set up a serial console: > http://www.howtoforge.com/setting_up_a_serial_console > > 3) Change your telnet terminal emulation from xterm or set a display variable. > > Reference: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Text-Terminal-HOWTO.html > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re:Serial Port Problems
Good catch, and sorry I was less clear. The switch/router is running a stripped down version of Red Hat they call Redhagis. It does not have room for very much at all, so installing RPMs or even source is problematical. You normally have to cross compile from another platform. Only the Desktop trying to communicate with the switch/router embedded host is running Ubuntu and capable of running apt-get. It was a major hassle to ad tcpdump until the vednor sent me a pre-compiled version. Mike > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:47:10 -0700 > Subject: Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu > Quoting: > >>>sudo apt-get install pico<< > > If I'm reading this right, the editor in question resides on the box > he's diddling with, NOT the Ubuntu box. So unless the router he's > configuring is running a Debian family OS (unlikely, right?) this > won't work :). > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PLUG-discuss Digest, Vol 50, Issue 1
> -- Forwarded message -- > From: Alan Dayley > To: Main PLUG discussion list > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:09:43 -0700 > Subject: Re: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > Joshua, > > I put all your replies together in one long document and reread them. > I am still confused a bit. Enlightenment via email rarely occurs. > However, I really want to understand your position in this discussion. > Let me summarize what I understand from your replies. > > ---[Start my paraphasing of your comments]--- > > - There is a small group or groups of people who keep spinning off > communities using tired marketing techniques. This results in blogs > but not true communities. > > - Some of these people cannot deal with existing structure and the > efforts of the past. > > - These weak attempts do not articulate goals or purpose well, if at all. > > - We must honestly look at criticism to learn and improve. > > - These weak people need to address the efforts of the past and > provide suggestions on how they can be improved upon. > > - Getting political support will provide legitimacy to their efforts. > > - Phoenix will attract technology businesses because of the relative > low cost and this will help improve things. > > - You have first hand experiences of weak, marketing fronted, > community building efforts. > > - Many 'entrepreneurs' have grand ideas but get nowhere with them > because they are not real businesses. > > - People at a co-working location or coffee shop will not help you > with your business unless you pay them. > > - Most people at co-working started their one person business after > being laid-off and are not serious about it. They are really just > looking for the next full time gig. This will get in your way if you > have real business work to do. > > - We must look truthfully at this issue if we are to make progress. > > - There are no serious incubators and entrepreneurial meetups in > Phoenix. No announcements on VC funding of companies so it's not > really entrepreneurial growth. > > ---[End my paraphrasing of your comments]--- > > I see validity in every one of these comments. I also think many of > them can be balanced by the other point of view. I still have > questions, if I may ask, before I state too much of my own thinking. > I want to learn more about your thinking. > > 1. What does "deal with existing structure" mean? This confuses me, > not know what structure you are talking about. > > 2. To what efforts of the past are you referring? I want to > understand the size and nature of efforts to creating a community that > you feel were legitimate but perhaps did not work as planned. > > 3. What political support is needed? You mean government funding of > events or startups or just verbal support or what? > > 4. Why is it wrong or a problem for someone who is laid-off to have > grand ideas, talk about them and they never come to be? > > 5. Is it not conceivable that people might help each other in business > efforts? Isn't strengthening and creating such a culture a good idea > or should such a goal not be pursued because it is not practically > possible? > > Alan > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >> another great one: >> >> "OK, my question stands. Where are the incubators, the "bootstrap" >> seminars, the serious entrepreneurial meetups in Phoenix??? (crickets >> chirping). Phoenix just ain't happening as a serious place where >> serious people are doing serious things. No one wants it badly enough >> here. This paper should be having at least one article a week on a new >> startup and the VC firm who funded it. Hell? is anybody out >> there" >> >> a better way to phrase this: we need to stop pretending these >> whimsical efforts churned out by local self-employed marketing experts >> are sufficient. They are not. We should be asking the hard >> questions, not playing games. >> >> -jmz >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Joshua Zeidner wrote: >>> another point, honestly reading through some of the criticisms on >>> azcentral and being of the cafe dwelling creed myself, I'd have to say >>> that many of those points are accurate. I've heard lots of >>> 'entrepreneurs' with big ideas around here who never get anywhere with >>> them. Sorry, but a word press template doesn't make you an >>> entrepreneur. >>> >>> "These are the same people you see at Starbucks, Boarders or any >>> other wi-fi hot spot, they are not entrepreneurs they are attention >>> (inappropriate term)." >>> >>> "Many of the Co-Worker location founders tout other people to >>> collaborate with and who can "compensate for your deficiencies". Do >>> you really believe someone that you are not paying as an employee is >>> going to somehow compensate for your deficiencies and make your >>> business better? That kind of help doesn't come without a price." >>> >>> oh so true... >>> >>> "You are more likely to get a bunch of people chatting t
Re: cabling
Depending on the contract I'll be glad to join you :) I have my own crimping kit, wire snake, line toner, wall plates, rj45 inserts, a few hundred feet of cat5, and I think I still have a few new punch blocks in the garage someplace :) I usually do cabling as a lost leader to reel in other jobs (As I make about minimum wage on cabling), but money is money :) On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:33 PM, mike havens wrote: > A while ago someone mentioned about needing tv or phone outlets put into > his house. If anyone needs anything like that let me know. > > -- > :-)~MIKE~(-: > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
Along the way, y'all can answer one of the great philosophical questions: "Wire we here?" --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Sonoran Penguin
I Love it! Lisa Kachold wrote: Just like it says! --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
OUCH!! Jim March wrote: Along the way, y'all can answer one of the great philosophical questions: "Wire we here?" --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
ShTP you want an answer to that. CoAx we are. At least the Copper did not take you to jail ;) On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > Along the way, y'all can answer one of the great philosophical questions: > > "Wire we here?" > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
I once had to string Ethernet between two boat docks. Ended up with a pier to pier network. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
OT: Farewell PLUG
Hey All, I'm not sure if anyone remembers me from last years ableconf (I did a presentation on Inkscape), but for those that do, farewell. Due to some pretty big life changes I will be relocating to Reno in the near future. Unfortunately I will be unable to participate in ABLEconf this year (as I will have relocated), but I wish everyone the best for it. As a side question, is anyone familiar with the FLOSS community in Reno? I don't imagine it's terribly large, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. -This next portion is list and activity related- As a soon-to-be former list member, I can tell you that my primary reason for not coming to meetings, not participating in the irc channel, and various other avenues for non-participation directly correlates to a lot of the off-topic discussion on the list. Yes Hans and Ryan, you are correct... it does drive people away. This is firsthand testimony that JMZ is guessing wrong, and that the concerns are NOT blown out of proportion. It's quite simple, if you can't stay on-topic with the list, what makes me think you'll be any different on irc or in person? You know how you add value to a LINUX/Tech discussion list? Stay on topic. My final note on this issue is that I would have been unsubscribing anyway if the issue wasn't addressed soon (which I'm happy to see that there is movement in that direction). Cheers, Josh --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Farewell PLUG
I am sorry to hear of your departure and wish you great luck in Reno :) As for the "off" topic at hand; I am someone who enjoys the OT discussions. However, like Josh, I also not not participate much. I can say I do not participate in IRC because I don't IRC. I don't come to many meetings because I am busy and would genuinely rather spend time with my wife. I do go to some of the Stamtishes and some of the meetings when I can, but, like the list, if they were cold, and intolerant of any socializing and non-FLOSS discussions (like this one) I would participate less. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:42 AM, Joshua A. Andler wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm not sure if anyone remembers me from last years ableconf (I did a > presentation on Inkscape), but for those that do, farewell. Due to some > pretty big life changes I will be relocating to Reno in the near future. > Unfortunately I will be unable to participate in ABLEconf this year (as > I will have relocated), but I wish everyone the best for it. > > As a side question, is anyone familiar with the FLOSS community in Reno? > I don't imagine it's terribly large, but figured it wouldn't hurt to > ask. > > > -This next portion is list and activity related- > > As a soon-to-be former list member, I can tell you that my primary > reason for not coming to meetings, not participating in the irc channel, > and various other avenues for non-participation directly correlates to a > lot of the off-topic discussion on the list. > > Yes Hans and Ryan, you are correct... it does drive people away. This is > firsthand testimony that JMZ is guessing wrong, and that the concerns > are NOT blown out of proportion. It's quite simple, if you can't stay > on-topic with the list, what makes me think you'll be any different on > irc or in person? You know how you add value to a LINUX/Tech discussion > list? Stay on topic. My final note on this issue is that I would have > been unsubscribing anyway if the issue wasn't addressed soon (which I'm > happy to see that there is movement in that direction). > > Cheers, > Josh > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
People are generally considerate enough to label their discussions and I do not mind moderating OT discussions, or even just putting in an automated 2-24 hour delay. However if it is truly moderated I would hope several moderators who all have the ability to approve and no one has the ability to remove. This ensures all must be in agreement to censor, and we may get OT messages to the list in under a few weeks (problem is moderation can be some work). I do NOT agree with splitting the list I have been around long enough and remember when general discussions WAS the OT list. Their was an admin list, a plug leadership list, a dev list, a web dev list, a few others, and this, the general list for what was left. However, if you can automate sorting then it may work (OT threads being automatically moved and fenced in the OT list even when sent to the discussion list) I for one enjoy the OT discussions, but even I have been... well.. tuning out on them lately. Which is what I would expect any one who does not like them to do, simply do not read them. Their is my 2 cents and I think I will retire for a few days before lobbing additional comments. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 11:37 PM, Ryan Rix wrote: > Joshua Zeidner wrote: > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Ryan Rix wrote: > >> Joshua Zeidner wrote: > >> > >>> Honestly I get the impression that some > >>> people are blowing it out of proportion because they have some stupid > >>> petty agenda. > >> > >> Like? Please, articulate your point. > > > > > > well, who is complaining? are they to remain anonymous? > > Like I said in my original thread, Hans is in agreement. Given his position > as president of the PLUG, I think his opinion grants some weight in > discussion. > Alan agrees with me, albeit in a different thread than this. > > At least two people in the PLUG irc channel are, too. > (irc.freenode.net/#plugaz if anyone is interested in discussing with us.) > > -- > --- > Ryan Rix > (623)-826-0051 > > * This is complicated. Has to do with interrupts. Thus, I am > * scared witless. Therefore I refuse to write this function. :-P >-- From the maclinux patch > > http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash > XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com > AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash > IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and > countless other FOSS channels. > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Scripting help
> > Same result with and without the -1 :( > > > > I believe it is a L (but lowercase) not a 1 It should be the number "1", meaning list one file per line. -Dale --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ****Re: guess what....
Craig White wrote: > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 19:16 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: > >> Lisa Kachold wrote: >> >>> On 7/30/09, JD Austin wrote: >>> >>> The 'other' model isn't working any better. My wife works in an Urgent Care; tons of Canadians come here to get the health care they need. I think the whole industry needs to be more competitive; most things in health care shouldn't cost what they do. >>> Inefficiency in preventative care, diagnostics, errors in surgery, the >>> truth is incredibly expensive. >>> >>> But just because Canadians come here for care doesn't mean it's not working. >>> >>> >> >> If by "working", you mean the majority of Canadians people accept it, >> and even think it's a good thing, I suppose it is. They're just very >> lucky they have a "safety valve", that is, a large semi-free country >> whose borders are within 100 miles of 90% of their population. >> Single-payer is, IMHO, the biggest piece of economic foolishness ever >> devised. Let's give an absolute monopoly to the most inefficient, >> corrupt organization ever invented by humans (government.) As for the >> notion that socialized medicine is cheaper, I don't believe it for a >> second. Governments can shift their costs to other agencies; the >> Pentagon does it all the time. I assume, for example, the cost of having >> "premiums" collected by the CRA doesn't get counted in the balance >> sheet. Not to mention the fact that a huge portion of the overhead costs >> of private insurers in the US is red tape imposed by government >> bureaucracies. >> Not that I'm necessarily endorsing the current system. There were a lot >> of good not-for-profit medical insurers in this country until Richard >> Nixon changed the tax laws, causing a massive takeover by greedy HMO's. >> I'd like to see a system of decentralized medical cooperatives with >> for-profit companies as a supplement. >> BTW, I don't blame the immigrants, but I do blame the lawyers. :-) >> >> >> No offense, just my two cents. :-) >> There, I feel so much better. >> Vaughn >> > > seeing as how the political discussions do not die off, I am going to > sound off here. > > The entire premise of the Canadian health care system was to provide a > single tier of medical coverage for all and no amount of wealth would > provide a better level of health care. You cannot devise a system that > is more fundamentally fair to everyone. > > The people who come here from Canada are doing elective surgeries either > not covered by the health care system in Canada or prioritized in a > manner that does not suit the person with money to pay elsewhere. > > The language that you use Vaughn is loaded and inaccurate... > - we are not a safety valve, we provide elective medical care to those > who want to pay and go elsewhere. > By that, I mean the proximity of the US ameliorates the biggest flaw in the single-player system - the fact that it's a monopoly. > - the issue of a monopolized health care run by the government happens > to be that which is practiced in all other western nations. We spend > more per capita on health care than any other industrialized nation and > yet approximately 25% of our citizens do not have coverage. > > No, the UK allows people whose procedures are not covered by National Health to pay for it out of pocket, unless that's changed in the last 10 years or so. (Admittedly, a lot of people think that's "unfair".) I suspect they're not the only nation that has this option. In Canada, that option is illegal. > - the insurance companies do worse managing the health care than > government could ever do. They practice murder by spreadsheet. They > invent rules for exclusions. Someone in this country WITH health > insurance goes bankrupt in this country every 30 seconds because of > exclusions, deductibles, etc. > Socialized medicine "works" only because of rationing. People with heart conditions will be told to wait, if government doctors judge this to be an acceptable risk. Some will die while waiting. Don't kid yourselves, governments do the same thing private insurers do, it's just somehow nobler because profit isn't involved. > - blaming the government red tape for the profits of insurers is absurd > to its core. > > No, I'm not saying red tape causes insurance companies to profit. But it does add a good portion to the costs. It's like the signs in stores about shoplifting, it's a cost ultimately borne by the consumer. I'm actually advocating a return to the earlier system in which many if not most of the country's insurers operated on a not-for-profit basis. > An American citizen visiting Canada can get free health care if needed. > > Any solution short of single-payer will fail and we will be back here > again, with more people excluded from coverage by insurance companies, > more people bankrupted by illness only because the comp
Re: OT: Farewell PLUG
Joshua A. Andler wrote: > Hey All, > > I'm not sure if anyone remembers me from last years ableconf (I did a > presentation on Inkscape), but for those that do, farewell. Due to some > pretty big life changes I will be relocating to Reno in the near future. > Unfortunately I will be unable to participate in ABLEconf this year (as > I will have relocated), but I wish everyone the best for it. > > As a side question, is anyone familiar with the FLOSS community in Reno? > I don't imagine it's terribly large, but figured it wouldn't hurt to > ask. > > > -This next portion is list and activity related- > > As a soon-to-be former list member, I can tell you that my primary > reason for not coming to meetings, not participating in the irc channel, > and various other avenues for non-participation directly correlates to a > lot of the off-topic discussion on the list. > > Sorry to hear that. I haven't been to meetings in a while because of scheduling conflicts. But they definitely weren't as off-topic as the list! People tend to be more civil in person, myself included. :-) Vaughn > Yes Hans and Ryan, you are correct... it does drive people away. This is > firsthand testimony that JMZ is guessing wrong, and that the concerns > are NOT blown out of proportion. It's quite simple, if you can't stay > on-topic with the list, what makes me think you'll be any different on > irc or in person? You know how you add value to a LINUX/Tech discussion > list? Stay on topic. My final note on this issue is that I would have > been unsubscribing anyway if the issue wasn't addressed soon (which I'm > happy to see that there is movement in that direction). > > Cheers, > Josh > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > I once had to string Ethernet between two boat docks. Ended up with a > pier to pier network. > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > Now that's funny. -- Donn There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." -- Dave Barry --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
I would have to second! Keith Smith --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Eric Cope wrote: > From: Eric Cope > Subject: Re: OT: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:43 PM > nice citation! > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 8:51 PM, > Austin William Wright > wrote: > > > Craig White wrote: > > > On Sat, 2009-08-01 at 21:20 -0700, keith smith wrote: > > > > > >> If you are referring to the courts that is one > thing the government > > >> needs to do. > > >> > > >> Water > > >> Sewer > > >> Trash pickup > > >> Streets > > >> Police > > >> Fire > > >> Standing Army > > >> and one or two other things. > > >> > > >> Everything else needs to be removed from the > government. > > >> > > >> Using the courts to resolve a dispute is > differently from the > > >> government providing for our business needs. > > >> > > >> Free enterprise. Do you think as a small > business owner I am afforded > > >> any protection under the law. Not happening. > Only the big guys get > > >> help from the government. > > >> > > >> I really have to get a few things done so i will > sing off for now. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > In NH, we got our own water, sewage, and trash. Why is > government > > necessary for those things? Even roads maybe (though there > are bigger > > things to think about), many of the highways are tollways. > > > Keep in mind I'm for small government and a free > market.the problem is that free market has now proven to be > a disaster. The > > > current economic mess is a direct result of > deregulating things like the > > > banks, Wall Street, etc. While the John Galt logic > sounded pretty good, > > > it simply didn't work and the great Ayn Rand > disciple, Greenspan got it > > > all wrong. We are paying the consequences for this now > and will be > > > paying even more consequences as the next wave of home > and commercial > > > property foreclosures ramp up, unemployment starts to > climb again and > > > more and more people's unemployment benefits > expire. Free market is a > > > great concept that simply doesn't work because > corporate interests are > > > predatory and irresponsible. > > > > > > The acknowledgment that essential government services > listed above > > > justifies the role of government and you want to argue > that it should do > > > no more. There is much more government should be > doing...but they have > > > abrogated their responsibilities in things like > consumer protection. > > > > > > Government will always be a problem but no government > is a worse problem > > > considering the amount of people and the current trend > of business > > > practices. > > I would examine the "free market" again. We are > /not/ in a free market, > > and haven't even been close to one for a while. We > never deregulated > > anything, indeed, the pages of regulation haven't > decreased since Regan. > > Greenspan turned out to be one of the biggest > interventionists, only > > outdone by Bernanke. You can't blame the mess on > bankers, if they didn't > > make those decisions someone else would have, and the > outcome wouldn't > > have been any different (in other words, it is a symptom, > not a cause). > > The problem stems from many central banks including our own > Federal > > reserve cutting interest rates from 2001-2004 by > (essentially) > > "printing" money. Since the housing market was > one of the most regulated > > (that is to say, there were government-enforced lending > standards and > > intervention my Fannie and Freddie), so people spent that > new money on > > houses before anything else (Oil too, because energy is > closely tied to > > the market), drove prices up, created a misallocation of > capital > > disproportionate with consumer demand, and we crashed when > not enough > > people could humanly gather the money to buy a new house at > the price > > they were at. > > > > Too many people get mislead by the number on the money, > ignore the > > money, that isn't what an economy is about. It is about > exchange and > > production. It is impossible measure how much an economy > satisfies > > people's wants, some of their wants may not involve > exchange with other > > people (so-called autistic exchange, which cannot be > measured). Every > > dollar spent bailing out companies is a dollar that cannot > be used to > > make televisions cheaper, or is a dollar that cannot be > used to buy > > food. Every dollar borrowed by government is one that > cannot be loaned > > out to a private investor, and raises interest rates at > that. Every > > dollar printed by government is one that was not in turn > made with any > > productive effort valued by someone else, and raises prices > for the > > people who are honest, without getting any raise in their > income to > > compensate. If GM collapsed, who knows how many companies > would have > >
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than should be necessary. This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to the correct Subject. The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can ignore all the threads I don't have an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > -Original Message- > From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On > Behalf Of Ryan Rix > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:21 PM > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > Subject: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? > > Group, > > Are these political discussions (examples: the second half of > Re: Guess What, when I relabelled unsuccesfully, and whatever > happened to the Geeky/entrepreneurial thread) detracting from > the point of this list (which is to discuss GNU/Linux and > Free Software, and not necessarily to discuss the economy, > the government, or conspiracies about whether or not our duly > elected President was an American or not) and in general > daunting for people who may be new listers/Linuxers? > > Hans agrees with me (via a quick discussion in the IRC > channel) that these discussions in general detract from the > list, and make the non-political- flame-war discussions less > active/less... what is the word... visible, so I think that > something should be done, or at least a discussion should > take place about it. > > I see a few options: > 1) We leave it here and do nothing. Most email clients have > the ability to filter on subject/topic of a discussion, so > those who didn't want to see/deal with/get drug into these > discussions could easily filter them out. > We could create a new topic heading, like we have for OT: > (politics: or something, when someone posts something > politically kinda sorta related), allowing those who want to > take part in these discussions to do so, while the others are > safely shielded from them. The problem with this is that new > users will still see these discusions taking place, which > could, imo be very detrimental to their joining this > community/getting the help with a question they may need/just > feeling comfortable. But of course, this is easy enough to do > and leaves the work for the users who don't like said > discussions to take care of. > > 2) Create another list for these mails. The problem with this > idea is that > (imo) mailman has no easy way to control WHERE messages > between two different lists go, so I think that it could be > hard to transition between the two lists when a discussion > does eventually go OT-Political. This would rely mostly on > the good will and rememberance of the posters, which in the > experience of the last few OT-Political threads has given me > the impression that this will NOT work. > > 3) We moderate OT threads. My personal opinion is that the > best way to keep flame wars down is to moderate. Not so much > eliminate the posts that may incite these political > discussions but to put a long enough delay on the posts that > it hampers the quick reply-reply-reply-reply that usually is > what completely derails thoughtful discussion. If users are > given the instant chance to write a quick retort to a > discussion and have that instantly posted to a hundred people > who may or may not have the same idealogy basically causes a > thread to go haywire in a matter of hours. With a sufficient > delay in these posts being sent to the group, this haywiring > can be pushed out to a day or two, hopefully alleviating any > flame wars which may develop. Most of the wars that take > place on p-d are about a day or two long at most anyways. > > 4) We forbid it. I think that this is the WORST option, but > an option nonetheless. I am not in favor of censorship at > all, but if things get bad enough we could do this. It would > probably have to fall back to #3. > > My personal preference is #3, but that gives someone an extra > job, and I don't think Hans should have to do it himself. A > board of moderators be elected perhaps? Is there any way to > crowdsource it? If this was a forum rather than a mailing > list (which I don't support at all!) we could add a > score/rating system, but I don't think that this is possible > via e-mail. > > Thanks and best, > Ryan Rix > > -- > --- > Ryan Rix > (623)-826-0051 > > * LG loves czech girls. > LG: do they have additional interesting "features" > other girls don't have? ;) > -- #Debia
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
Bob Elzer wrote: > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than > should be necessary. > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to the > correct Subject. > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can ignore > all the threads I don't have > an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > I think the most powerful part of plug-discuss is that it's a mailing list. It means I can reply without having to open a browser, I can search the archives while offline, I can participate via nntp using GMane... Plus moving to a message board at this point would create a lot of work for the administrators of the site, and would lead to a rift in where the archives were stored, unless there is a lurker compatible script for a forum software... -- --- Ryan Rix (623)-826-0051 finlandia:~> apropos win win: nothing appropriate. http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and countless other FOSS channels. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
PLEASE Add a Political LIST for PLUG members interested in such discussions. On 8/3/09, Bob Elzer wrote: > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than > should be necessary. > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to the > correct Subject. > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can ignore > all the threads I don't have > an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On >> Behalf Of Ryan Rix >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> Subject: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? >> >> Group, >> >> Are these political discussions (examples: the second half of >> Re: Guess What, when I relabelled unsuccesfully, and whatever >> happened to the Geeky/entrepreneurial thread) detracting from >> the point of this list (which is to discuss GNU/Linux and >> Free Software, and not necessarily to discuss the economy, >> the government, or conspiracies about whether or not our duly >> elected President was an American or not) and in general >> daunting for people who may be new listers/Linuxers? >> >> Hans agrees with me (via a quick discussion in the IRC >> channel) that these discussions in general detract from the >> list, and make the non-political- flame-war discussions less >> active/less... what is the word... visible, so I think that >> something should be done, or at least a discussion should >> take place about it. >> >> I see a few options: >> 1) We leave it here and do nothing. Most email clients have >> the ability to filter on subject/topic of a discussion, so >> those who didn't want to see/deal with/get drug into these >> discussions could easily filter them out. >> We could create a new topic heading, like we have for OT: >> (politics: or something, when someone posts something >> politically kinda sorta related), allowing those who want to >> take part in these discussions to do so, while the others are >> safely shielded from them. The problem with this is that new >> users will still see these discusions taking place, which >> could, imo be very detrimental to their joining this >> community/getting the help with a question they may need/just >> feeling comfortable. But of course, this is easy enough to do >> and leaves the work for the users who don't like said >> discussions to take care of. >> >> 2) Create another list for these mails. The problem with this >> idea is that >> (imo) mailman has no easy way to control WHERE messages >> between two different lists go, so I think that it could be >> hard to transition between the two lists when a discussion >> does eventually go OT-Political. This would rely mostly on >> the good will and rememberance of the posters, which in the >> experience of the last few OT-Political threads has given me >> the impression that this will NOT work. >> >> 3) We moderate OT threads. My personal opinion is that the >> best way to keep flame wars down is to moderate. Not so much >> eliminate the posts that may incite these political >> discussions but to put a long enough delay on the posts that >> it hampers the quick reply-reply-reply-reply that usually is >> what completely derails thoughtful discussion. If users are >> given the instant chance to write a quick retort to a >> discussion and have that instantly posted to a hundred people >> who may or may not have the same idealogy basically causes a >> thread to go haywire in a matter of hours. With a sufficient >> delay in these posts being sent to the group, this haywiring >> can be pushed out to a day or two, hopefully alleviating any >> flame wars which may develop. Most of the wars that take >> place on p-d are about a day or two long at most anyways. >> >> 4) We forbid it. I think that this is the WORST option, but >> an option nonetheless. I am not in favor of censorship at >> all, but if things get bad enough we could do this. It would >> probably have to fall back to #3. >> >> My personal preference is #3, but that gives someone an extra >> job, and I don't think Hans should have to do it himself. A >> board of moderators be elected perhaps? Is there any way to >> crowdsource it? If this was a forum rather than a mailing >> list (which I don't support at all!) we could add a >> score/rating system, but I don't think that this is possible >> via e-mail. >> >> Thanks and best, >> Ryan Rix >> >> --
Re: Sonoran Penguin
That picture rocks, and now the 16:9 question? Does it come as a desktop wallpaper option? :-) Thanks, Brian On Aug 2, 2009 11:58 PM, "Lisa Kachold" wrote: Just like it says! -- (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Serial Port Problems
Hey Mike, did the key sequence: escape escape o work for you to save in Nano? On 8/3/09, Mike Bushroe wrote: > Good catch, and sorry I was less clear. The switch/router is running a > stripped down version of Red Hat they call Redhagis. It does not have > room for very much at all, so installing RPMs or even source is > problematical. You normally have to cross compile from another > platform. Only the Desktop trying to communicate with the > switch/router embedded host is running Ubuntu and capable of running > apt-get. It was a major hassle to ad tcpdump until the vednor sent me > a pre-compiled version. > > Mike > > >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> >> To: Main PLUG discussion list >> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:47:10 -0700 >> Subject: Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu >> Quoting: >> sudo apt-get install pico<< >> >> If I'm reading this right, the editor in question resides on the box >> he's diddling with, NOT the Ubuntu box. So unless the router he's >> configuring is running a Debian family OS (unlikely, right?) this >> won't work :). >> > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
I think the single thing that impressed me about you was your visiting the state legislature. When I get settled in in Phoenix I hope to visit the state legislature and see what is going on first hand. Keith Smith --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > From: Joshua Zeidner > Subject: Re: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? > To: phrkonale...@gmail.com, "Main PLUG discussion list" > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:35 PM > I think youre making mountains out > of molehills here... one of these > heated political discussions happens on average once a > month (if > that). I think it adds to the variety and diversity > on this list. It > would appear that these discussions compel new > participants, which is > a good thing for the list. The level of articulation > for some of > these discussions is very high- its not just some crude > flame war. I > don't think the noise is so much a problem as the ideas > presented or > perhaps vendettas against participants. I mean god, a > few extra > emails in your inbox and the world is coming to an > end? get over it. > > Looking over some of my thoughts ... sorry if I come > off as > complaining about AZ. Im just pointing out some of my > observations. > On the whole, I like it here- and my commitments to this > state have > recently gone up a bit. This is the month however > when I hear > everyone say they hate it here... give it another month or > two and its > back to happy happy arizonans... that is once we get this > financial > crisis sorted out. > > have a good week, > > -jmz > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Ryan Rix > wrote: > > Group, > > > > Are these political discussions (examples: the second > half of Re: Guess > > What, when I relabelled unsuccesfully, and whatever > happened to the > > Geeky/entrepreneurial thread) detracting from the > point of this list (which > > is to discuss GNU/Linux and Free Software, and not > necessarily to discuss > > the economy, the government, or conspiracies about > whether or not our duly > > elected President was an American or not) and in > general daunting for people > > who may be new listers/Linuxers? > > > > Hans agrees with me (via a quick discussion in the IRC > channel) that these > > discussions in general detract from the list, and make > the non-political- > > flame-war discussions less active/less... what is the > word... visible, so I > > think that something should be done, or at least a > discussion should take > > place about it. > > > > I see a few options: > > 1) We leave it here and do nothing. Most email clients > have the ability to > > filter on subject/topic of a discussion, so those who > didn't want to > > see/deal with/get drug into these discussions could > easily filter them out. > > We could create a new topic heading, like we have for > OT: (politics: or > > something, when someone posts something politically > kinda sorta related), > > allowing those who want to take part in these > discussions to do so, while > > the others are safely shielded from them. The problem > with this is that new > > users will still see these discusions taking place, > which could, imo be very > > detrimental to their joining this community/getting > the help with a question > > they may need/just feeling comfortable. But of course, > this is easy enough > > to do and leaves the work for the users who don't like > said discussions to > > take care of. > > > > 2) Create another list for these mails. The problem > with this idea is that > > (imo) mailman has no easy way to control WHERE > messages between two > > different lists go, so I think that it could be hard > to transition between > > the two lists when a discussion does eventually go > OT-Political. This would > > rely mostly on the good will and rememberance of the > posters, which in the > > experience of the last few OT-Political threads has > given me the impression > > that this will NOT work. > > > > 3) We moderate OT threads. My personal opinion is that > the best way to keep > > flame wars down is to moderate. Not so much eliminate > the posts that may > > incite these political discussions but to put a long > enough delay on the > > posts that it hampers the quick > reply-reply-reply-reply that usually is what > > completely derails thoughtful discussion. If users are > given the instant > > chance to write a quick retort to a discussion and > have that instantly > > posted to a hundred people who may or may not have the > same idealogy > > basically causes a thread to go haywire in a matter of > hours. With a > > sufficient delay in these posts being sent to the > group, this haywiring can > > be pushed out to a day or two, hopefully alleviating > any flame wars which > > may develop. Most of the wars that take place on p-d > are about a day or two > > long at most anyways. > > > > 4) We forbid it. I think that this is the WORST > option, but an option > > nonetheless.
Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu
Lisa Kachold wrote: > Eric Please! > > On 8/2/09, Eric Shubert wrote: >> Lisa Kachold wrote: >>> On 8/2/09, Eric Shubert wrote: Lisa Kachold wrote: > On 7/31/09, Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Quoting: >> sudo apt-get install pico<< >> If I'm reading this right, the editor in question resides on the box >> he's diddling with, NOT the Ubuntu box. So unless the router he's >> configuring is running a Debian family OS (unlikely, right?) this >> won't work :) > His problem was stated as: > > --quote > > I am using Ubuntu at work, were connect to a Linux based Ether > switch/router both by serial port and by telnet. > > ---end quote > > There are a great number of debian linux switches (like IpCop): > > But hey, thanks for not stereotyping me; I love being corrected just > like one of the guys! > IPCop is based on LinuxFromScratch. Is that somehow related to debian? >>> There's a debian install for IpCop (if you followed the link, you would >>> see it). >>> I always include references for questions like these (grin) after 25 >>> years in this business. >>> >> Which link would that be? >> >> Being a standalone distro based on LFS, I don't understand how there >> could or would be a "debian install" for it. Will you explain what you >> mean by "debian install for IpCop"? >> >> -- >> -Eric 'shubes' > > Ask the source (IPCop.or in this case) [about IpCop debian] before > beleagering all these good people with this strange agenda? I did, thank you very much. I was unable to find anything there about a "debian install". > http://www.ipcop.org/index.php?module=pnWikka&func=history&tag=IPCop2BuildingHowto > This page page references debian, but it's talking about a build environment, which has nothing to do with an install or IPCop itself. In addition, it's talking about version 2, which is a long way from general release yet. My "agenda" (if you need to call it that) is simply to understand how IPCop and debian might be related, which was triggered by your statement: There are a great number of debian linux switches (like IpCop): I think I understand now. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: PLUG's role in improving Phx
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Alan Dayley wrote: > The thread I started and fed a bit, "Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to > do in PHX"[1], has spun off into the weeds of "non-Linux" and > "non-group" discussion. Some of it is very interesting but it is far > afield from the purpose of this email list. I'd like to try to pull > it back around to direct relevancy. Sorry Alan, but I started just deleting the topic because my choice is to stay out of most of the OT stuff. I am glad you are trying to refocus under a new title. I do have a suggestion below. > > > Given: > - Arizona and specifically the Phoenix valley has many > Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur events and groups. > - Some of these events and groups are weak attempts at marketing or > self-aggrandizement or creating closed clubs or sincere but misguided > dreamers. > - Some of these events and groups truly aspire to great things and > work to make them happen. > - PLUG is, perhaps, one of the later, working to help our community. > > Question: > What can we, PLUG and individual members of PLUG, do to improve > community, business, entrepreneurship and life for us in Phoenix? I don't know if this has ever been suggested in PLUG, but one thought might be to put together one or more canned presentations on Linux and/or FOSS and have a small group of presenters that can put the show on at area schools. Ideally, we could have someone familiar with the school systems to be a contact to arrange the schedules. The presentations should have a focus suitable for a school audience. If this program did well, we might then consider other target audiences and how to adapt the presentations for those audiences. > > > Comment: > I went back in the thread and read most of it. There are great ideas > there and good thinkers who don't always agree but have strong voices. > And I see a great deal of criticism. And I see little in the way of > what to DO about all the negative things mentioned. We should be > having a constructive discussion about the "right way" to grow > community and technology in Phoenix, and PLUG's part in that. Let's > do that discussion. > > In my opinion. > > Alan > > [1] ( > http://lists.plug.phoenix.az.us/lurker/thread/20090731.152112.dc0a0269.en.html#20090731.152112.dc0a0269 > ) > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX
Hold on to your hat Craig. You might be surprised what happens in the next few years. Yes, your statement "Free market economics is now officially dead." is partially true. But not for long. The citizens are upset about what the government is doing and it shows in the tea parties and other actions. I predict the return to smaller government and less government intervention, to include less taxes. It is obvious you are at the left and I am a conservative and am on the right. I think the conservatives will ultimately win out because the people are just plain fed up. It is about the people and what the people want. Keith Smith --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Craig White wrote: > From: Craig White > Subject: Re: OT: Geek/Tech/Entrepreneur Stuff to do in PHX > To: "Main PLUG discussion list" > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 10:35 PM > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 21:43 -0700, > Eric Cope wrote: > > I would examine > the "free market" again. We are /not/ in a > > free market, > > and haven't even > been close to one for a while. We never > > deregulated > > anything, > indeed, the pages of regulation haven't decreased > > since Regan. > > Greenspan turned > out to be one of the biggest > > > interventionists, only > > outdone by > Bernanke. You can't blame the mess on bankers, if > > they didn't > > make those > decisions someone else would have, and the outcome > > wouldn't > > have been any > different (in other words, it is a symptom, not > > a cause). > > The problem > stems from many central banks including our own > > Federal > > reserve cutting > interest rates from 2001-2004 by (essentially) > > "printing" > money. Since the housing market was one of the most > > regulated > > (that is to say, > there were government-enforced lending > > standards and > > intervention my > Fannie and Freddie), so people spent that new > > money on > > houses before > anything else (Oil too, because energy is > > closely tied to > > the market), > drove prices up, created a misallocation of > > capital > > disproportionate > with consumer demand, and we crashed when not > > enough > > people could > humanly gather the money to buy a new house at > > the price > > they were at. > > no, there was no growth in anything but property values > because the > stock market was stagnant. The housing bubble was driven by > escalating > prices driven by investor purchases of housing which was > completely > unsustainable. The economy of 2000 > 2006 was a false > bubble of real > estate growth. > > To suggest that Greenspan was an interventionist means that > you don't > believe in his love for Ayn Rand and all of his efforts at > deregulation. > Things like deregulating the firewalls between banks and > investment > houses. You can find the origins of this in the > Graham-Leach act of 1999 > which repealed the Glass-Steagall act. This was free market > failure at > its best. Free market thinking is about corporate failure. > Free market > economics is now officially dead. > > Craig > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail > settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu
On 8/3/09, Eric Shubert wrote: > Lisa Kachold wrote: >> Eric Please! >> >> On 8/2/09, Eric Shubert wrote: >>> Lisa Kachold wrote: On 8/2/09, Eric Shubert wrote: > Lisa Kachold wrote: >> On 7/31/09, Jim March <1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Quoting: >>> > sudo apt-get install pico<< >>> If I'm reading this right, the editor in question resides on the box >>> he's diddling with, NOT the Ubuntu box. So unless the router he's >>> configuring is running a Debian family OS (unlikely, right?) this >>> won't work :) >> His problem was stated as: >> >> --quote >> >> I am using Ubuntu at work, were connect to a Linux based Ether >> switch/router both by serial port and by telnet. >> >> ---end quote >> >> There are a great number of debian linux switches (like IpCop): >> >> But hey, thanks for not stereotyping me; I love being corrected just >> like one of the guys! >> > IPCop is based on LinuxFromScratch. Is that somehow related to debian? There's a debian install for IpCop (if you followed the link, you would see it). I always include references for questions like these (grin) after 25 years in this business. >>> Which link would that be? >>> >>> Being a standalone distro based on LFS, I don't understand how there >>> could or would be a "debian install" for it. Will you explain what you >>> mean by "debian install for IpCop"? >>> >>> -- >>> -Eric 'shubes' >> >> Ask the source (IPCop.or in this case) [about IpCop debian] before >> beleagering all these good people with this strange agenda? > > I did, thank you very much. I was unable to find anything there about a > "debian install". > >> http://www.ipcop.org/index.php?module=pnWikka&func=history&tag=IPCop2BuildingHowto >> > > This page page references debian, but it's talking about a build > environment, which has nothing to do with an install or IPCop itself. In > addition, it's talking about version 2, which is a long way from general > release yet. > > My "agenda" (if you need to call it that) is simply to understand how > IPCop and debian might be related, which was triggered by your statement: Well there's a Freelance project related to migrating to a newer kernel sources (using Debian): http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/Linux/IPCop-debian-package.html I have worked on a debian IPCop in the days before current ISO drop in, with custom binary sources (which is DEBIAN based [gee if you can build the sources on it, it's DEBIAN - duh!]). IpCop in it's current iteration uses the old Linux 2.4 kernel (with all it's related limitations). And the subject of this man's email was not argumentative. It was solved (5 minutes after he posted it) - terminal emulation for his redhat switch using ESCape ESCape o to save in nano. > > There are a great number of debian linux switches (like IpCop): > > > I think I understand now. > -- > -Eric 'shubes' > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Sonoran Penguin
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote: > Just like it says! > > -- > > (623)239-3392 > (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com > I love it as well. The silhouette effect is so different from the usual penguin stuff that it really stands out. Lisa, if you made this, I wonder if you tried making the penguin more in the foreground with something so he could be a bit bigger in the picture compared to the saguaro without it just looking like an abnormally large penguin? -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ****Re: guess what....
is this A flame war? I find it kind of educational. Now if each side would just site some resources we would know who to believe. Neither of the sides has done so. My opinion is that state health care will not work. Only from what I've heard do people die in Canada and the UK waiting for treatment. I don't know if it is true. I hear the people from canada say that it doesn't work well and I have heard people from the former USSR say that we are going down the wrong path so that is what I believe. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Vaughn Treude wrote: > Craig White wrote: > > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 19:16 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: > > > >> Lisa Kachold wrote: > >> > >>> On 7/30/09, JD Austin wrote: > >>> > >>> > The 'other' model isn't working any better. My wife works in an > Urgent > Care; tons of Canadians come here to get the health care they need. I > think > the whole industry needs to be more competitive; most things in health > care > shouldn't cost what they do. > > > > >>> Inefficiency in preventative care, diagnostics, errors in surgery, the > >>> truth is incredibly expensive. > >>> > >>> But just because Canadians come here for care doesn't mean it's not > working. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> If by "working", you mean the majority of Canadians people accept it, > >> and even think it's a good thing, I suppose it is. They're just very > >> lucky they have a "safety valve", that is, a large semi-free country > >> whose borders are within 100 miles of 90% of their population. > >> Single-payer is, IMHO, the biggest piece of economic foolishness ever > >> devised. Let's give an absolute monopoly to the most inefficient, > >> corrupt organization ever invented by humans (government.) As for the > >> notion that socialized medicine is cheaper, I don't believe it for a > >> second. Governments can shift their costs to other agencies; the > >> Pentagon does it all the time. I assume, for example, the cost of having > >> "premiums" collected by the CRA doesn't get counted in the balance > >> sheet. Not to mention the fact that a huge portion of the overhead costs > >> of private insurers in the US is red tape imposed by government > >> bureaucracies. > >> Not that I'm necessarily endorsing the current system. There were a lot > >> of good not-for-profit medical insurers in this country until Richard > >> Nixon changed the tax laws, causing a massive takeover by greedy HMO's. > >> I'd like to see a system of decentralized medical cooperatives with > >> for-profit companies as a supplement. > >> BTW, I don't blame the immigrants, but I do blame the lawyers. :-) > >> > >> > >> No offense, just my two cents. :-) > >> There, I feel so much better. > >> Vaughn > >> > > > > seeing as how the political discussions do not die off, I am going to > > sound off here. > > > > The entire premise of the Canadian health care system was to provide a > > single tier of medical coverage for all and no amount of wealth would > > provide a better level of health care. You cannot devise a system that > > is more fundamentally fair to everyone. > > > > The people who come here from Canada are doing elective surgeries either > > not covered by the health care system in Canada or prioritized in a > > manner that does not suit the person with money to pay elsewhere. > > > > The language that you use Vaughn is loaded and inaccurate... > > - we are not a safety valve, we provide elective medical care to those > > who want to pay and go elsewhere. > > > By that, I mean the proximity of the US ameliorates the biggest flaw in > the single-player system - the fact that it's a monopoly. > > - the issue of a monopolized health care run by the government happens > > to be that which is practiced in all other western nations. We spend > > more per capita on health care than any other industrialized nation and > > yet approximately 25% of our citizens do not have coverage. > > > > > No, the UK allows people whose procedures are not covered by National > Health to pay for it out of pocket, unless that's changed in the last 10 > years or so. (Admittedly, a lot of people think that's "unfair".) I > suspect they're not the only nation that has this option. In Canada, > that option is illegal. > > - the insurance companies do worse managing the health care than > > government could ever do. They practice murder by spreadsheet. They > > invent rules for exclusions. Someone in this country WITH health > > insurance goes bankrupt in this country every 30 seconds because of > > exclusions, deductibles, etc. > > > Socialized medicine "works" only because of rationing. People with heart > conditions will be told to wait, if government doctors judge this to be > an acceptable risk. Some will die while waiting. Don't kid yourselves, > governments do the same thing private insurers do, it's just somehow > nobler because profit isn't involved. > > > - blaming the government red tape for the profits of insurers is a
Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
no one will post to it and it won't stop in the general list. if I remember right none of the other lists get any traffic; just this one, the one for general discussion. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote: > PLEASE Add a Political LIST for PLUG members interested in such > discussions. > > On 8/3/09, Bob Elzer wrote: > > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than > > should be necessary. > > > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to > the > > correct Subject. > > > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can > ignore > > all the threads I don't have > > an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. > > > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. > > > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. > > > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On > >> Behalf Of Ryan Rix > >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:21 PM > >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > >> Subject: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? > >> > >> Group, > >> > >> Are these political discussions (examples: the second half of > >> Re: Guess What, when I relabelled unsuccesfully, and whatever > >> happened to the Geeky/entrepreneurial thread) detracting from > >> the point of this list (which is to discuss GNU/Linux and > >> Free Software, and not necessarily to discuss the economy, > >> the government, or conspiracies about whether or not our duly > >> elected President was an American or not) and in general > >> daunting for people who may be new listers/Linuxers? > >> > >> Hans agrees with me (via a quick discussion in the IRC > >> channel) that these discussions in general detract from the > >> list, and make the non-political- flame-war discussions less > >> active/less... what is the word... visible, so I think that > >> something should be done, or at least a discussion should > >> take place about it. > >> > >> I see a few options: > >> 1) We leave it here and do nothing. Most email clients have > >> the ability to filter on subject/topic of a discussion, so > >> those who didn't want to see/deal with/get drug into these > >> discussions could easily filter them out. > >> We could create a new topic heading, like we have for OT: > >> (politics: or something, when someone posts something > >> politically kinda sorta related), allowing those who want to > >> take part in these discussions to do so, while the others are > >> safely shielded from them. The problem with this is that new > >> users will still see these discusions taking place, which > >> could, imo be very detrimental to their joining this > >> community/getting the help with a question they may need/just > >> feeling comfortable. But of course, this is easy enough to do > >> and leaves the work for the users who don't like said > >> discussions to take care of. > >> > >> 2) Create another list for these mails. The problem with this > >> idea is that > >> (imo) mailman has no easy way to control WHERE messages > >> between two different lists go, so I think that it could be > >> hard to transition between the two lists when a discussion > >> does eventually go OT-Political. This would rely mostly on > >> the good will and rememberance of the posters, which in the > >> experience of the last few OT-Political threads has given me > >> the impression that this will NOT work. > >> > >> 3) We moderate OT threads. My personal opinion is that the > >> best way to keep flame wars down is to moderate. Not so much > >> eliminate the posts that may incite these political > >> discussions but to put a long enough delay on the posts that > >> it hampers the quick reply-reply-reply-reply that usually is > >> what completely derails thoughtful discussion. If users are > >> given the instant chance to write a quick retort to a > >> discussion and have that instantly posted to a hundred people > >> who may or may not have the same idealogy basically causes a > >> thread to go haywire in a matter of hours. With a sufficient > >> delay in these posts being sent to the group, this haywiring > >> can be pushed out to a day or two, hopefully alleviating any > >> flame wars which may develop. Most of the wars that take > >> place on p-d are about a day or two long at most anyways. > >> > >> 4) We forbid it. I think that this is the WORST option, but > >> an option nonetheless. I am not in favor of censorship at > >> all, but if things get bad enough we could do this. It would > >> probably have to fall back
Re: PLUG's role in improving Phx
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Dazed_75 wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if this has ever been suggested in PLUG, but one thought might > be to put together one or more canned presentations on Linux and/or FOSS and > have a small group of presenters that can put the show on at area schools. > Ideally, we could have someone familiar with the school systems to be a > contact to arrange the schedules. The presentations should have a focus > suitable for a school audience. > > If this program did well, we might then consider other target audiences and > how to adapt the presentations for those audiences. > > > I realized maybe I should clarify a little. When I said have a focus suitable for the school audience I meant things like "Getting In To the Future of Software" or "Rebelling With the Best", as opposed to a dry sounding topic like "Free and Open Source Software" even though they are the same thing. The presentations could also have more of a "do it like this" focus where there are practical presentations on things like photo manipulation or working with people using other OS's. We would have to start with one but I would hope could expand to more than one topic/presentation. I would also want it to be a practiced and smooth presentation akin to those done professionally. -- Dazed_75 a.k.a. Larry The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. - Thomas Jefferson --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Serial Port Terminal Emulation problems in Ubuntu
Lisa Kachold wrote: > On 8/3/09, Eric Shubert wrote: >> >> My "agenda" (if you need to call it that) is simply to understand how >> IPCop and debian might be related, which was triggered by your statement: > > Well there's a Freelance project related to migrating to a newer > kernel sources (using Debian): > > http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/Linux/IPCop-debian-package.html I see. Doesn't appear to be going anywhere. > I have worked on a debian IPCop in the days before current ISO drop > in, with custom binary sources (which is DEBIAN based [gee if you can > build the sources on it, it's DEBIAN - duh!]). I respectfully disagree. The sources for IPCop can be built on nearly every other linux variant. Does the fact that some sources are built on Knoppix (for example) make the resulting binaries Knoppix as well? I don't think so. > IpCop in it's current iteration uses the old Linux 2.4 kernel (with > all it's related limitations). Right. And IPCop version 2 (in moderately active development) will use the 2.6 kernel. Anywise, you've answered my question. Thanks. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
> -Original Message- > From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On > Behalf Of Ryan Rix > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:11 AM > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > Subject: RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? > > Bob Elzer wrote: > > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is > more work than > > should be necessary. > > > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split > and moved to > > the correct Subject. > > > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can > > ignore all the threads I don't have an interest in, and > when I'm done > > mark them all read. > > > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being > sent to everyone. > > > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if > this was a forum. > > > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > > > > I think the most powerful part of plug-discuss is that it's a > mailing list. > It means I can reply without having to open a browser, I can > search the archives while offline, I can participate via nntp > using GMane... > > Plus moving to a message board at this point would create a > lot of work for the administrators of the site, and would > lead to a rift in where the archives were stored, unless > there is a lurker compatible script for a forum software... Each has it's own drawbacks and advantages. For one it would increase the web site traffic. More traffic, and they see other stuff that may interest them. Not sure if it could still be part of gmane or not. It would certainly not cause someone to leave the list, they would just skip the topics they're not interested in. It would cut down on internet waste, I haven't looked how many people are on the list ? But all those email to people who just delete them is a big waste of all that traffic. I'm sure something could be done for someone that wants an offline archive, but how many people save all this on their own systems, I know where to go if I need to recheck something, and messages that teach me something, I save in a folder. I don't think the admins would have a rift over where to store the archives. lol > > -- > --- > Ryan Rix > (623)-826-0051 > > finlandia:~> apropos win > win: nothing appropriate. > > http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | > http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash > XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com > AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash > IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and > countless other FOSS channels. > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
Bob Elzer wrote: > > Each has it's own drawbacks and advantages. For one it would increase the > web site traffic. More traffic, and they see other stuff that may interest > them. > > Not sure if it could still be part of gmane or not. > GMane only handles mailing lists, not forum software :( > It would certainly not cause someone to leave the list, they would just > skip the topics they're not interested in. > It would cut down on internet waste, I haven't looked how many people are > on > the list ? But all those email to people who just delete them is a big > waste of all that traffic. > > I'm sure something could be done for someone that wants an offline > archive, but how many people save all this on their own systems, I know > where to go if I need to recheck something, and messages that teach me > something, I save in a folder. > > I don't think the admins would have a rift over where to store the > archives. lol I mean, half of the list's archive (the previous one) would reside in lurker, and the other half would reside in $forumsoftware -- --- Ryan Rix (623)-826-0051 > NE-2000 clone. Pentium optimizing gcc (pentium gcc pl8 I think). Build a kernel with the proper gcc. Reports with a non standard compiler are useless. -- Alan Cox http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and countless other FOSS channels. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
with a forum, the admin could just move the topic to the correct list. :-) _ From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On Behalf Of mike havens Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:04 AM To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? no one will post to it and it won't stop in the general list. if I remember right none of the other lists get any traffic; just this one, the one for general discussion. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote: PLEASE Add a Political LIST for PLUG members interested in such discussions. On 8/3/09, Bob Elzer wrote: > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than > should be necessary. > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to the > correct Subject. > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can ignore > all the threads I don't have > an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On >> Behalf Of Ryan Rix >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> Subject: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? >> >> Group, >> >> Are these political discussions (examples: the second half of >> Re: Guess What, when I relabelled unsuccesfully, and whatever >> happened to the Geeky/entrepreneurial thread) detracting from >> the point of this list (which is to discuss GNU/Linux and >> Free Software, and not necessarily to discuss the economy, >> the government, or conspiracies about whether or not our duly >> elected President was an American or not) and in general >> daunting for people who may be new listers/Linuxers? >> >> Hans agrees with me (via a quick discussion in the IRC >> channel) that these discussions in general detract from the >> list, and make the non-political- flame-war discussions less >> active/less... what is the word... visible, so I think that >> something should be done, or at least a discussion should >> take place about it. >> >> I see a few options: >> 1) We leave it here and do nothing. Most email clients have >> the ability to filter on subject/topic of a discussion, so >> those who didn't want to see/deal with/get drug into these >> discussions could easily filter them out. >> We could create a new topic heading, like we have for OT: >> (politics: or something, when someone posts something >> politically kinda sorta related), allowing those who want to >> take part in these discussions to do so, while the others are >> safely shielded from them. The problem with this is that new >> users will still see these discusions taking place, which >> could, imo be very detrimental to their joining this >> community/getting the help with a question they may need/just >> feeling comfortable. But of course, this is easy enough to do >> and leaves the work for the users who don't like said >> discussions to take care of. >> >> 2) Create another list for these mails. The problem with this >> idea is that >> (imo) mailman has no easy way to control WHERE messages >> between two different lists go, so I think that it could be >> hard to transition between the two lists when a discussion >> does eventually go OT-Political. This would rely mostly on >> the good will and rememberance of the posters, which in the >> experience of the last few OT-Political threads has given me >> the impression that this will NOT work. >> >> 3) We moderate OT threads. My personal opinion is that the >> best way to keep flame wars down is to moderate. Not so much >> eliminate the posts that may incite these political >> discussions but to put a long enough delay on the posts that >> it hampers the quick reply-reply-reply-reply that usually is >> what completely derails thoughtful discussion. If users are >> given the instant chance to write a quick retort to a >> discussion and have that instantly posted to a hundred people >> who may or may not have the same idealogy basically causes a >> thread to go haywire in a matter of hours. With a sufficient >> delay in these posts being sent to the group, this haywiring >> can be pushed out to a day or two, hopefully alleviating any >> flame wars which may develop. Most of the wars that take >> place on p-d are about a day or two long at most anyways. >> >> 4) We forbid it. I think that this is the WORST option, but >> an option none
RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
Is gmane subscribed to our list ? Or does it get it some other way ? I'm sure we could merge the archive into the forum, we're linux users, we can do anything. :) > -Original Message- > From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On > Behalf Of Ryan Rix > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:58 AM > To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > Subject: RE: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? > > Bob Elzer wrote: > > > > Each has it's own drawbacks and advantages. For one it > would increase > > the web site traffic. More traffic, and they see other > stuff that may > > interest them. > > > > Not sure if it could still be part of gmane or not. > > > > GMane only handles mailing lists, not forum software :( > > > It would certainly not cause someone to leave the list, they would > > just skip the topics they're not interested in. > > It would cut down on internet waste, I haven't looked how > many people > > are on the list ? But all those email to people who just > delete them > > is a big waste of all that traffic. > > > > I'm sure something could be done for someone that wants an offline > > archive, but how many people save all this on their own systems, I > > know where to go if I need to recheck something, and messages that > > teach me something, I save in a folder. > > > > I don't think the admins would have a rift over where to store the > > archives. lol > > I mean, half of the list's archive (the previous one) would > reside in lurker, and the other half would reside in $forumsoftware > > -- > --- > Ryan Rix > (623)-826-0051 > > > NE-2000 clone. Pentium optimizing gcc (pentium gcc pl8 I think). > > > Build a kernel with the proper gcc. Reports with a non > standard compiler are useless. > -- Alan Cox > > http://hackersramblings.wordpress.com | > http://twitter.com/phrkonaleash > XMPP: phrkonale...@gmail.com | MSN: phrkonale...@yahoo.com > AIM: phrkonaleash| Yahoo: phrkonaleash > IRC: phrkon...@irc.freenode.net/#srcedit,#teensonlinux,#plugaz and > countless other FOSS channels. > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
Bob Elzer wrote: > Is gmane subscribed to our list ? Or does it get it some other way ? > Yes, gmane is subscribed. I use gmane for list access. I quit getting the emails once I started using gmane. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
"our" URL on gmane.org (was: Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?)
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: > Bob Elzer wrote: > > Is gmane subscribed to our list ? Or does it get it some other way ? > > Yes, gmane is subscribed. I use gmane for list access. I quit getting > the emails once I started using gmane. > -- > -Eric 'shubes' --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - [...] > Everyone: Just FYI: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.phoenix -- Mike Schwartz Glendale AZ schwa...@acm.org --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
Well, this list went too much off topic lately. Everyone is interested about politics, but, unless you're the main expert on some topic, and you're able to be impartial and not offend the political view of others, it's better keep the focus on technology. I'm not able to read all threads, they're mostly useless. I think people should be self disciplined not to go off topic. Just to add some complains if weren't enough. Marco --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
There are 2 sides to this. 1 it deviates from the Linux part of our users group. and ultimately this is counter to the list's intent and those users will be annoyed and leave. 2 we are a community of geeks and nerds (you pick which you want to be) and as such its kind of nice to find them with like interests as not all of us are in locations where there are many of similar caliber/interest so non list content is always going to be filtering into the list. for me i think keeping the non Linux related material to maybe a sibling list or well tagged is really the better choice than getting rid of the content. if we tag it well users can filter out the Off topic material easily. but this also kind of requires self policing of the list by all the users. keep your email on topic (per origonal subject) if you can. if you need to split to a new topic do so i have seen it done here and it can work well. but we cannot say no to odd bents because legal and event related new pertaining to Linux really should be here if anywhere, but it should be Linux related or tagged off topic or taken to a more appropriate list. i dislike flame wars but its not a big deal for me to find a thread that annoys/bnores me and clear it quickly just makes my blackberry feel loved in the meantime... --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: cabling
/thwap bad pun no shell. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Jim March<1.jim.ma...@gmail.com> wrote: > Along the way, y'all can answer one of the great philosophical questions: > > "Wire we here?" > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Sonoran Penguin
i think its pretty well.. part of me would like to see the penguin staring at the cactus. but in any case a wallpaper sized graphic would be great. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way?
a forum would limit my mobile interaction as i dont like running forums on my blackberry.. the interface on buttons is rarely conducive for this. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Bob Elzer wrote: > I've just been deleting the topic on sight. But that is more work than > should be necessary. > > This is one reason I thought it would be better to go to a forum. > > With a forum, if the thread goes off course, it can split and moved to the > correct Subject. > > The thread could also be locked if it gets out of hand. > > But best of all when I go to the forum, I see what's new, and I can ignore > all the threads I don't have > an interest in, and when I'm done mark them all read. > > Using a forum cuts down on all the unwanted email being sent to everyone. > > You can still have mail sent to you for topics that you post in. > > Not sure how everyone else feels, but I would prefer if this was a forum. > > Then we can get teamspeak going to replace IRC :P :-) > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> [mailto:plug-discuss-boun...@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us] On >> Behalf Of Ryan Rix >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 10:21 PM >> To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> Subject: OT: Handling Politics the plug-discuss way? >> -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: OT: Farewell PLUG
Am 03. Aug, 2009 schwätzte Joshua A. Andler so: moin moin Josh, I'm not sure if anyone remembers me from last years ableconf (I did a presentation on Inkscape), but for those that do, farewell. Due to some pretty big life changes I will be relocating to Reno in the near future. Unfortunately I will be unable to participate in ABLEconf this year (as I will have relocated), but I wish everyone the best for it. Good luck in Reno. Hope all is well for you! As a side question, is anyone familiar with the FLOSS community in Reno? I don't imagine it's terribly large, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. We have one person here working for a company relocating all techs but him to Reno. If he doesn't contact you let me know. Bad timing for us as an offline discussion last night was talking about starting some art-oriented activities. ciao, der.hans -- # http://www.LuftHans.com/http://www.LuftHans.com/Classes/ # "I have no special talents, I am only passionately # curious." -- Albert Einstein --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Sonoran Penguin
Like the others I also really like this image :-). I dig the sunset, silhouette, and cactus actions. A couple weeks back I saw the "russian Linux" image floating around. I wonder if someone can figure out a way to make Lizard vs Tux mashup :-) http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/7fe6c8ad thanks, C.G. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote: > Just like it says! > > -- > > (623)239-3392 > (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- Carlos Macedo Gomes http://claimid.com/cmgomes --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: I need help with IPCop. [Blue Zone Setup]
Hi Eric, Thanks for the reply. By default, the users on the blue network can only use the internet and nothing else, unless you specifically give them access. Here are a few things that helped understand the blue zone: 2.6.1. What traffic is allowed between Interfaces? http://www.ipcop.org/1.4.0/en/admin/images/traffic.png 2.6.6. Blue Access Administrative Web Page To setup Blue Access do the following: 1. Use a supported Ethernet card to setup the Blue interface. 2. Connect an Access Point to that Ethernet card. (Use the LAN Ethernet port on the AP, if you have a choice of ports). 3. You can use DHCP to serve dynamic or static addresses on Blue, although static is preferred for security of MAC addresses. Refer to the DHCP Server section for more information on configuring static leases. If you only need to provide access for http traffic on the Blue network to the Internet (Red network), just add the IP Address or the MAC Address of the Wireless Router, or the individual wireless connected devices if you are using an Access Point, via the web page shown below. You have to enter at least one MAC or one IP Address per device. Optionally, you can enter both MAC and IP Address for a device. An Access Point behaves like an Ethernet hub, and IPCop serves out DHCP leases through it to wireless devices. A Wireless Router does NAT, serves out DHCP on it's own subnet, and has it's own access controls. MatthewMPP --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re:Serial Port Problems
Lisa, Yes it did. Worked perfectly! Would have saved MUCH frustration if I had thought of it last week! I think I even tried a single escape followed by ^O, but did not quite hit the correct sequence. And on a second note, I finally got the configuration of VLANs, routing domains, default gateways, and rc.local entries needed to get the remote connectivity that was the whole reason for all this. I also forgot to mention that the playing card sized CPU that runs the switch/router is not only running "Red Haggis" on a 64MB flash memory, but is also running on a powerpc, so binaries have to be cross compiled, and there is no room for standard libraries. Mike -- Forwarded message -- From: Lisa Kachold To: Main PLUG discussion list Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:24:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Serial Port Problems Hey Mike, did the key sequence: escape escape o work for you to save in Nano? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Sonoran Penguin
R Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Lisa Kachold Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:33:55 To: Main PLUG discussion list Subject: Sonoran Penguin Just like it says! -- (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: ****Re: guess what....
Watch this and then tell me we do not have a problem brewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4u5x9XAsAs&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freemarketcure.com%2Fbrainsurgery.php&feature=player_embedded Keith Smith --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: sort of OT: Linksys router blocking certain sites
I was kind of suspecting the routing tables might be stored in the flash chip and suffered from bit rot. When I was having the problem I had a bit less knowledge/experience then I do now. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Jason Hayes wrote: > > I guess that this must be a Linksys thing then. Everything works fine for a > few > years and then it digs in its heels and refuses to load the site(s) that > you > have to be able to access. > > No solutions for the Linksys router, but I had a D-Link WBR-1310 sitting in > a > box new and unused here at home. I fired it up and, at least at first > blush, > everything seems to be back to normal. The sites are loading (a little > slow, > but they're loading.) > > No idea what caused that problem. > > Thanks to everyone who commented! > > Jason > > > On Sunday 02 August 2009 09:58:11 am Steve Phariss wrote: > > I had an old Linksys wired router that was acting the same way. I was > able > > to access all sites I tried, but one (the web site was was actively > working > > on) I could access from a direct connect to the modem, but not from the > > router. I had Cox reset my modem, I even had them reprovision me and > > assign a new IP but nothing worked (hmmm now that I think about it, the > > reprovision MAY have worked for a couple times, don;t remember). On the > > router side I reflashed the firmware, and moved the ports I was using. I > > even reloaded my network drivers on the PC. I eventually got a new > router > > and all was well again. the funny thing was I could access the other > > domain on hte same host (used bluehost.com with several domains > attached) > > > > > > I do not remember if I could connect using the IP, may not have even > tried. > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Bryan O'Neal > wrote: > > > I am sure this is a stupid question, but have you flashed your router? > Or > > > tried accessing on a different port? You may have a nat lock, though I > > > have never heard of one lasting through a power cycle on a Linksys, I > > > would not put it past it. Flashing (Or even doing a full factory reset) > > > should clear that. > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Jason Hayes > wrote: > > >> On Saturday 01 August 2009 04:45:02 pm Lisa Kachold wrote: > > >> > On 8/1/09, Jason Hayes wrote: > > >> > > Not sure why this is happening. > > >> > > > > >> > > My Linksys WRT54GS router just suddenly (yesterday a.m.) started > > >> > > >> blocking > > >> > > >> > > a group of sites that I administer. I was working on one of the > > >> > > sites > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > it started getting slower and slower, then finally cut out. > > >> > > > >> > Are you possibly locked out at that hosting provider? Ask that they > > >> > "escalate your ticket" to the highest level you can to rule out > system > > >> > firewall lockouts? > > >> > > >> Can't be that because if I bypass the router and plug my main computer > > >> directly into the Cox modem, I can access the sites without any > > >> problems. When > > >> I do that I can view the site and sign in as admin, add content, etc. > > >> > > >> > How are you accessing these sites? Port 22? VNC? http/https > through > > >> > auth processes? > > >> > > >> Nothing terribly complex -- Just http. These are simple drupal > websites > > >> that I > > >> have set up for clients. I was working on a new theme for one of the > > >> websites > > >> (www.bonnydann.com), when the router started acting up. > > >> > > >> Also noticed that when I'm running through the Linksys router, I can > log > > >> in to > > >> the ftp portion of the site for file uploads, etc. without any > problems. > > >> I'm > > >> also getting email from the accounts on that hosting package. So I > know > > >> it is > > >> just the web portion (http) that is acting up. > > >> > > >> > > I know the sites are working because if I plug straight into the > > >> > > >> modem, I > > >> > > >> > > can > > >> > > access them. (Also family in Canada can access them without any > > >> > > >> issues.) > > >> > > >> > > Also, > > >> > > the rest of the Internet is still out there - I can access pretty > > >> > > much any other site. > > >> > > > >> > So, you possibly can't get a new cox IP address but you can request > > >> > they verify you did not get into one of their traps? > > >> > > > >> > Let's look further: > > >> > > > >> > 1) Can you traceroute from the command line to the server? If not > > >> > where does it fail? > > >> > > >> From the router Administration --> Diagnostics page on the WRT54GS, I > > >> can ping > > >> to the site, no packets lost > > >> > > >> PING bonnydann.com ( 66.116.193.208 ) : 56 data bytes > > >> 64 bytes from 66.116.193.208: icmp_seq=0, ttl=52 times=70. ms > > >> 64 bytes from 66.116.193.208: icmp_seq=1, ttl=52 times=70. ms > > >> 64 bytes from 66.116.193.208: icmp_seq=2, ttl=52 times=70. ms > > >> 64 bytes from 66.116.193.208: icmp_seq=3, ttl=52 times=70. ms > > >> 64 bytes from 66.116.193.208: icmp_
Re: I need help with IPCop.
Hi Lisa & Eric, Questions: Can you just assign an ip number to a computer? Or does something up stream of it, (a computer, router, dhcp server, whatever), have to be made aware of that computer's ip number. Example, when I assign static ip's on the green zone, I always enter the ip on both IPCop and the workstation. I setup the network interfaces for my data server (192.168.0.2) and it worked like a charm, however, I entered the static ip on both IPCop and the data server. Assuming, I enter an ip on the web server (192.168.2.2), on what machine upstream of the web server do I enter the ip? Eric Shubert wrote: > I believe you'll need to forgo dhcp and just give it a static address. > That's what I do. Only servers on the orange subnet anywise. > > Note, you can add your orange server(s) to the 'hosts' list with it's > (orange subnet) address, so that computers on the green network can get > it's address via dhcp/dns and access it via its private (orange subnet) > address. Make sure that dhcp is configured to specify the ipcop itself > as the dns resolver for your green subnet. Okay, this helps. But, isn't the 'hosts' list just to help the 192.168.0.1 dns name server? Here is what I did. Can you tell me why it did not work? First, I added the web server's ip (192.168.2.2) to IPCop's 'hosts' list. Then on the Ubuntu Web Server: vi /etc/network/interfaces #The loopback network interface. auto lo iface lo inet loopback #The primary network interface. auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.2.2 gateway 192.168.2.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.2.0 broadcast 192.168.2.255 vi /etc/resolv.conf search 25century.org (same as green) nameserver 192.168.0.1 (green nic) (IPCop says not to use IPCop for the orange DNS. What name server should I use?) Any advice? MatthewMPP --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: I need help with IPCop.
Hi Lisa, > You can assign static ip addresses to any interface as virtual addresses. > > In Ubuntu assignment looks like so; static files manage the > configuration (which also can be done via the Networking tab [I like > command line]): > > http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ubuntu-networking-configuration-using-command-line.html Yeah, I do too. > Apache will require that you also "bind" the addresses to a virtual > host in the httpd.conf or virtual configurations, which also > corresponds (for SSL) to the /etc/hosts file [and/or DNS]. what's the "[and/or DNS]" for? > http://techgurulive.com/2009/04/10/how-to-configure-ip-based-virtual-hosting-in-apache/ good link. we can tackle this later, I just need the machine working for now. > We can tackle that when we get there, but if you are also doing IP > forwarding (to 80 from an obfuscated [cox] inbound port 8089 for > example) you might want to just use ONE ip address (rather than many) > and name based virtual hosting: I have a cox business account. > http://www.cahilig.org/apache2-name-based-virtual-hosting-debianubuntu good link. later. > Okay? > > Call me if you need help! cool. thanks. If you would, please check the reply I sent Eric. MatthewMPP --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: I need help with IPCop.
Hi Eric, It looks like you have the subnet, gateway and ip address setup correctly for your webserver. I think your issue is with the DNS server in the green zone. Are you sure that your dns is working? What part is not working? # ping [gateway on ipcop] # nslookup apple.com # ping apple.com and on ipcop to assist to see what it's getting use: tcpdump -v -i eth1 (or whatever interface you have it set for) On 8/3/09, Matthew A Coulliette wrote: > Hi Lisa & Eric, > > > Questions: > Can you just assign an ip number to a computer? Or does something up > stream of it, (a computer, router, dhcp server, whatever), have to be > made aware of that computer's ip number. > > Example, when I assign static ip's on the green zone, I always enter the > ip on both IPCop and the workstation. I setup the network interfaces for > my data server (192.168.0.2) and it worked like a charm, however, I > entered the static ip on both IPCop and the data server. Assuming, I > enter an ip on the web server (192.168.2.2), on what machine upstream of > the web server do I enter the ip? > > > Eric Shubert wrote: >> I believe you'll need to forgo dhcp and just give it a static address. >> That's what I do. Only servers on the orange subnet anywise. >> >> Note, you can add your orange server(s) to the 'hosts' list with it's >> (orange subnet) address, so that computers on the green network can get >> it's address via dhcp/dns and access it via its private (orange subnet) >> address. Make sure that dhcp is configured to specify the ipcop itself >> as the dns resolver for your green subnet. > Okay, this helps. But, isn't the 'hosts' list just to help the > 192.168.0.1 dns name server? > > > > Here is what I did. Can you tell me why it did not work? > > First, I added the web server's ip (192.168.2.2) to IPCop's 'hosts' list. > > > Then on the Ubuntu Web Server: > vi /etc/network/interfaces > #The loopback network interface. > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > #The primary network interface. > auto eth0 > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.2.2 > gateway 192.168.2.1 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > network 192.168.2.0 > broadcast 192.168.2.255 > > vi /etc/resolv.conf > search 25century.org (same as green) > nameserver 192.168.0.1 (green nic) > (IPCop says not to use IPCop for the orange DNS. What name server should > I use?) > > > Any advice? > MatthewMPP > > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- http://linuxgazette.net/165/kachold.html (623)239-3392 (503)754-4452 www.obnosis.com --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: I need help with IPCop.
On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 20:11 -0700, Matthew A Coulliette wrote: > Hi Lisa & Eric, > > > Questions: > Can you just assign an ip number to a computer? Or does something up > stream of it, (a computer, router, dhcp server, whatever), have to be > made aware of that computer's ip number. > > Example, when I assign static ip's on the green zone, I always enter the > ip on both IPCop and the workstation. I setup the network interfaces for > my data server (192.168.0.2) and it worked like a charm, however, I > entered the static ip on both IPCop and the data server. Assuming, I > enter an ip on the web server (192.168.2.2), on what machine upstream of > the web server do I enter the ip? I suppose what you are trying to accomplish here would clarify the question. Are you wanting Internet based computers to be able to access your web server in the orange? If that is the case, the mapping of an external IP address would have to be directed to the computer in the orange zone. > > Eric Shubert wrote: > > I believe you'll need to forgo dhcp and just give it a static address. > > That's what I do. Only servers on the orange subnet anywise. > > > > Note, you can add your orange server(s) to the 'hosts' list with it's > > (orange subnet) address, so that computers on the green network can get > > it's address via dhcp/dns and access it via its private (orange subnet) > > address. Make sure that dhcp is configured to specify the ipcop itself > > as the dns resolver for your green subnet. > Okay, this helps. But, isn't the 'hosts' list just to help the > 192.168.0.1 dns name server? > > > > Here is what I did. Can you tell me why it did not work? > > First, I added the web server's ip (192.168.2.2) to IPCop's 'hosts' list. > > > Then on the Ubuntu Web Server: > vi /etc/network/interfaces > #The loopback network interface. > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > #The primary network interface. > auto eth0 > iface eth0 inet static > address 192.168.2.2 > gateway 192.168.2.1 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > network 192.168.2.0 > broadcast 192.168.2.255 > > vi /etc/resolv.conf > search 25century.org (same as green) > nameserver 192.168.0.1 (green nic) > (IPCop says not to use IPCop for the orange DNS. What name server should > I use?) Orange zone computers should use external DNS server, probably the one supplying your Internet bandwidth (Cox? Qwest? Other?) Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
