Re: CenturyLink/DirectTV
yep a read the whole thing. woosh! right over my head! On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:33 PM, Michael Butash wrote: > Qwest/CL DSL has always proven spotty *at times* with anyone I've ever > known using it. As a network guy I inquire with fellow geeks I know, and > they let me know. Generally the residential side of Qwest/CL fairly weak > on troubleshooting most issues because of simple physical problems that > often cannot easily be overcome with 2wire systems. If you can get VDSL, > it's decent from what I've heard, as long as you have new wiring, in a new > area, and live close to where every they dropped the local dslam. Most > fall NOT into this category. > > Data comes in the form of modulation, and consider 10baset requires 4 > wires still, gig ethernet 8. 2-wire is poop compared to the modulation and > speed capable on _shielded_ coax. Qwest has simply had to push the > envelope with dsl tech to remain relevant in the market, eventually > resorting to new wiring (twisted-pair i think), often with some shielding > now to achieve it which is hardly traditional for a telco outside of > business service. Eventually they had to begin to roll fiber as they were > reaching unpractical limitations in their 2wire tech to modulate data at > *competitive speeds*. > > Fixed point-to-multipoint ala old sprint broadband and various others > operate in parts that do it too now, sometimes a decent alternative where > available I've heard (cave creek area). At least until it is > oversubscribed to hell. Sprint acquired independents here in town setting > them up, but ultimately they oversold it to death, and finally shot it in > the head to finish years later. Not sure this isn't the eventual outcome > of any wireless deployment. > > Satellite is a last-resort option with as stated, latency and bandwidth > caps (extreme point-to-multipoint far, far away). > > If celco's weren't so greedy/proud of wireless LTE tech, it would be > decent as a fixed solution as well as mobile as latency and throughput is > much improved. I couldn't run the small datacenter in my house with it > though. I can however get a LTE EHWIC for a Cisco router now that > customers can and do use as a "backup" solution when someone back-hoe's > your businesses fiber. > > Qwest/CL fiber deployment, like fios is "pon", passive-optical network > based. These are not to be confused with anything like optical ethernet, > sonet, dwdm, etc that are "active" optics. Cable, dsl, most non-optical > (generally) are subject to async behavior as you have a small modem, and a > very large cmts and active amplifier network driving very large coax feeds > at headends and active optical from there. Fiber doesn't have so much > those physical limitations so long as the laser can use power in the diode > to shoot your frames from here to there some ways (active zx single-mode > optics can shoot 60km for gige, raman based dwdm amps much further). PON > is a cost-effective way of aggregating fiber in a controlled fashion as you > somewhat would a copper plant, only now the techs roll with portable fusion > splicers and otdr's instead of qam test kit for coax. > > Cable is where it's at, when fiber is not. I've too worked at cox, and > actually back to @home and offshoot isp back in the day when they started > the tech before cox as media whores figured out what IP was. The modulation > and timing that drives docsis 3.0 is very scalable for a copper means, and > it's nothing cox will need to dig up and replace anytime soon. Other than > being a bit proud of watching and working it along the way, it's solid tech. > > I have some issues with Cox ultimately, but they are one of the less evil > of the isp's out there, and generally have much improved stability over > most anything else. Generally speaking, the only time I call them is when > truly something dies (arizona is hell on coax), as I don't require network > support otherwise. I've used them off and on a good 14 years for data, and > as long as you have a clean physical connection (modem levels can tell > you/them this), it's pretty damn solid. Business services gets you someone > out to fix your stuff asap vs. 2-3 bd, and open ports (cox blocks > surprisingly less than you might think these days on residential - not even > https). > > So far pon is driving speeds comparable to cable with qam docsis 3.0 now > that they're channel-bonding to aggregate much as wireless tech does in > 802.11n. Pon is capable of 10g speed down, 2.5gb up. That is why cox and > other cable mso/isp's killed analog off, to reclaim huge/clean spectrum to > reuse for wide-band operation across more spectrum to compete with this. > They're ability with modems and cmts channel/timing management to > auto-provision docsis allows them to optimize channel/spectrum bonding/mimo > usage, allowing them to simply keep adding more bandwidth. > > Data on cable used to be shoehorned into a small chunk of spectrum (what > good is
Re: CenturyLink/DirectTV
"I couldn't run the small datacenter in my house with it though.". -- Are you using Cox to do this? I home office and twitched from a consumer package to a business package so I would have the ability to run a server. I ran a server part time for testing only. I was testing out the Qmail Toaster. I had a bad experience running a server about 10 years ago. I left the email relay open and was exploited. Since then I have been leery of running server out of my house. My cable connection has been very stable with just a couple of outages. I think those outages where on my consumer connection. I do not think I have had any outages since twitching. I'd be interested to hear if you are using Cox for your home based data center. Keith Smith --- On Fri, 7/27/12, Michael Butash wrote: From: Michael Butash Subject: Re: CenturyLink/DirectTV To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Friday, July 27, 2012, 10:33 PM Qwest/CL DSL has always proven spotty *at times* with anyone I've ever known using it. As a network guy I inquire with fellow geeks I know, and they let me know. Generally the residential side of Qwest/CL fairly weak on troubleshooting most issues because of simple physical problems that often cannot easily be overcome with 2wire systems. If you can get VDSL, it's decent from what I've heard, as long as you have new wiring, in a new area, and live close to where every they dropped the local dslam. Most fall NOT into this category. Data comes in the form of modulation, and consider 10baset requires 4 wires still, gig ethernet 8. 2-wire is poop compared to the modulation and speed capable on _shielded_ coax. Qwest has simply had to push the envelope with dsl tech to remain relevant in the market, eventually resorting to new wiring (twisted-pair i think), often with some shielding now to achieve it which is hardly traditional for a telco outside of business service. Eventually they had to begin to roll fiber as they were reaching unpractical limitations in their 2wire tech to modulate data at *competitive speeds*. Fixed point-to-multipoint ala old sprint broadband and various others operate in parts that do it too now, sometimes a decent alternative where available I've heard (cave creek area). At least until it is oversubscribed to hell. Sprint acquired independents here in town setting them up, but ultimately they oversold it to death, and finally shot it in the head to finish years later. Not sure this isn't the eventual outcome of any wireless deployment. Satellite is a last-resort option with as stated, latency and bandwidth caps (extreme point-to-multipoint far, far away). If celco's weren't so greedy/proud of wireless LTE tech, it would be decent as a fixed solution as well as mobile as latency and throughput is much improved. I couldn't run the small datacenter in my house with it though. I can however get a LTE EHWIC for a Cisco router now that customers can and do use as a "backup" solution when someone back-hoe's your businesses fiber. Qwest/CL fiber deployment, like fios is "pon", passive-optical network based. These are not to be confused with anything like optical ethernet, sonet, dwdm, etc that are "active" optics. Cable, dsl, most non-optical (generally) are subject to async behavior as you have a small modem, and a very large cmts and active amplifier network driving very large coax feeds at headends and active optical from there. Fiber doesn't have so much those physical limitations so long as the laser can use power in the diode to shoot your frames from here to there some ways (active zx single-mode optics can shoot 60km for gige, raman based dwdm amps much further). PON is a cost-effective way of aggregating fiber in a controlled fashion as you somewhat would a copper plant, only now the techs roll with portable fusion splicers and otdr's instead of qam test kit for coax. Cable is where it's at, when fiber is not. I've too worked at cox, and actually back to @home and offshoot isp back in the day when they started the tech before cox as media whores figured out what IP was. The modulation and timing that drives docsis 3.0 is very scalable for a copper means, and it's nothing cox will need to dig up and replace anytime soon. Other than being a bit proud of watching and working it along the way, it's solid tech. I have some issues with Cox ultimately, but they are one of the less evil of the isp's out there, and generally have much improved stability over most anything else. Generally speaking, the only time I call them is when truly something dies (arizona is hell on coax), as I don't require network support otherwise. I've used them off and on a good 14 years for data, and as long as you have a clean physical connection (modem levels can tell you/them this), it's pretty damn solid. Business services gets you someone out to fix your stuff asap vs. 2-3 bd, an
Re: CenturyLink/DirectTV
I do, mostly my lab, but I have it running on a residential connection, and only the mid/20mb package. I can ipsec or ssl-vpn to my asa, and do what I need to remotely when on business from my lte router from my internal network. I don't use a lot of bandwidth (aside from personal usenet reaping), it's mostly internal stuff with vmware, various linux systems, ad controllers to play with, storage, and a host of other vm's, but it amounts to quite a few. That mostly stays gige within my house though. I nat everything out one address, and vpn in for everything else. I'm planning to go business services once I actually need higher uptime than I get now (ie someone to come when it breaks asap), and they're good for it. Pro-tip - If you have a relation with a cox account manager (or know someone at times) from bigger businesses with fiber connectivity or such, you can sometimes get a deal as a "teleworker" package personally, which amounts to "bulk" connectivity for business service cable to aggregate their workforce on cox connections with business-level mttr. Generally its the highest-service level package, business response, and ~$80 dollar price tag at last check. It's usually kind of a hook-up deal, but depends if your business account manager likes you spending money with them, and enough of it. :) -mb On 07/28/2012 11:51 AM, keith smith wrote: "I couldn't run the small datacenter in my house with it though.". -- Are you using Cox to do this? I home office and twitched from a consumer package to a business package so I would have the ability to run a server. I ran a server part time for testing only. I was testing out the Qmail Toaster. I had a bad experience running a server about 10 years ago. I left the email relay open and was exploited. Since then I have been leery of running server out of my house. My cable connection has been very stable with just a couple of outages. I think those outages where on my consumer connection. I do not think I have had any outages since twitching. I'd be interested to hear if you are using Cox for your home based data center. Keith Smith --- On *Fri, 7/27/12, Michael Butash //* wrote: From: Michael Butash Subject: Re: CenturyLink/DirectTV To: plug-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us Date: Friday, July 27, 2012, 10:33 PM Qwest/CL DSL has always proven spotty *at times* with anyone I've ever known using it. As a network guy I inquire with fellow geeks I know, and they let me know. Generally the residential side of Qwest/CL fairly weak on troubleshooting most issues because of simple physical problems that often cannot easily be overcome with 2wire systems. If you can get VDSL, it's decent from what I've heard, as long as you have new wiring, in a new area, and live close to where every they dropped the local dslam. Most fall NOT into this category. Data comes in the form of modulation, and consider 10baset requires 4 wires still, gig ethernet 8. 2-wire is poop compared to the modulation and speed capable on _shielded_ coax. Qwest has simply had to push the envelope with dsl tech to remain relevant in the market, eventually resorting to new wiring (twisted-pair i think), often with some shielding now to achieve it which is hardly traditional for a telco outside of business service. Eventually they had to begin to roll fiber as they were reaching unpractical limitations in their 2wire tech to modulate data at *competitive speeds*. Fixed point-to-multipoint ala old sprint broadband and various others operate in parts that do it too now, sometimes a decent alternative where available I've heard (cave creek area). At least until it is oversubscribed to hell. Sprint acquired independents here in town setting them up, but ultimately they oversold it to death, and finally shot it in the head to finish years later. Not sure this isn't the eventual outcome of any wireless deployment. Satellite is a last-resort option with as stated, latency and bandwidth caps (extreme point-to-multipoint far, far away). If celco's weren't so greedy/proud of wireless LTE tech, it would be decent as a fixed solution as well as mobile as latency and throughput is much improved. I couldn't run the small datacenter in my house with it though. I can however get a LTE EHWIC for a Cisco router now that customers can and do use as a "backup" solution when someone back-hoe's your businesses fiber. Qwest/CL fiber deployment, like fios is "pon", passive-optical network based. These are not to be confused with anything like optical ethernet, sonet, dwdm, etc that are "active" optics. Cable, dsl, most non-optical (generally) are subject to async behavior as you have a small modem, and a very large cmts and active amplifier network driving very large coax feeds at headends
