Re: Samba/FTP slow write fast read

[George Toft]

Here are the cases I had:
Win7 client 1 (VMware host) using Windows Explorer, read fast, write slow
Win7 client 1 using FTP, read fast, write slow
Win7 samba client 2 using Windows Explorer, read fast, write fast
Linux client 1 using FTP, read fast, write fast
Linux client 1 using smbclient, read fast, write fast

As you can see, anything that had to do with writes from Win7 client 1, 
which was the VMware host, went slow.


And this did have a large virtual drive - it was 500GB.  That was 
probably the problem :)


I've since moved the client from VMware to proxmox-ve on a difference 
system and life is good.  I won't be able to pursue this any further.  
Same config files and it works very well.


Regards,

George Toft

On 11/3/2012 8:16 PM, Lisa Kachold wrote:

Hi George,

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:01 PM, George Toft > wrote:


Spent several hours researching this one - can't find a solution.
 I hope someone here can hit me with a clue-by-four.

CentOS 6.3 64-bit virtual running under VMware 2.0.2 fresh install
with FTP/Samba/NFS running.  I copied 500+GB of data from the old
computer to the new one using NFS at full network speed (11+
MB/sec).  Life's good.

Now here it is a day later, and my samba write speed is a blazing
80KB/sec (up from 40KB/s when I started troubleshooting).  I read
samba should approach FTP speed and I verified it does - FTP
writes to the new machine at about the same speed.  Reads still
take place a full speed (now it's on a 1Gbps network) - 33MB/sec.
 Writes . . . 99.8% slower.  I did not have this problem on the
previous samba server (CentOS 4.8 32-bit).

I added memory (it now has 1GB RAM, 1 GB swap) and it has 2 CPU's.
This had no effect.

In summary, NFS works at full speed both ways.  Samba/FTP are fast
on reads but snail slow on writes.

My next thought is to install ClearOS, test it, and copy their
smb.conf.  Or install CentOS 5.x and see if it has the same problems.

Any ideas where to look on this one?  smb.conf necessary.

-- 
Regards,


George Toft

Microsoft 7 uses smb 2.2, btw --> protocol step down might add to the 
lag?

What is your smb version on each node? CIFS clients?

http://www.codefx.com/CIFS_Explained.htm

A given client and server may implement different sets of protocol 
variations which they negotiate before starting a session.


There are a great many considerations for this problem:

0) Samba in VMware:
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws45/doc/network_samba_ws.html

1) Active .vs Passive FTP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqrlBicM8lE

2) Disk type:

Dynamically allocated VMware virtual disks are extremely slow with 
writes.  Huge virual disks over say 300 gb are also really really slow 
for writes.
Raid 5 or greater on VVware is also extremely slow with writes, 
depending on the version of VMware.


3) What kind of network are you using?

By default there are three virtual networks created on a VMware 
server. They are: VMnet0 -- Bridged VMnet1 -- Host-only VMnet8 -- NAT


4) Networking UDP packets for SMB:

SMB uses UDP which is a connection-less protocol. In other words it 
simply broadcasts.


UDP uses a simple communication model without implicit transmission 
checks for guaranteeing reliability, sequencing, or datagram 
integrity. Though these factors might seem to suggest that UDP is not 
a useful protocol, it is still widely used in particular areas where 
speed, more than reliability, is of utmost importance. With UDP, error 
checks and corrections are carried out in the communicating 
application, not at the network layer. However, if error checks and 
corrections are needed at the network layer, the application can use 
Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) or Stream Control Transmission 
Protocol (SCTP), which are specifically formulated for this reason. 
 Since UDP does not have the overhead of checking whether the data has 
reached the destination every time it is sent, it makes the protocol 
that much faster and more efficient. UDP is often used for time 
sensitive applications where missing data is preferred to late 
arriving data.


UDP packets can also create broadcast storms (NFS 3), therefore it's 
not suggested that SMB or  older NFS3


5) Putting it all together: Using Samba for File Sharing on a 
Host-only Network


On a Linux host computer, VMware ESX Server can automatically install 
and configure a Samba server to act as a file server for Microsoft 
Windows guest operating systems. You can then use Windows Explorer in 
the virtual machine to move and copy files between virtual machine and 
host --- or between virtual machines on the same network --- just as 
you would with files on physical computers that share a network 
connection.


The lightly modified Samba server installed by VMware ESX Server runs 
over the VMware ESX Server virtual Ethernet and the Samba traffic 
between different operating systems 

Re: Samba/FTP slow write fast read

[Lisa Kachold]

Hi George,

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:01 PM, George Toft  wrote:

> Spent several hours researching this one - can't find a solution.  I hope
> someone here can hit me with a clue-by-four.
>
> CentOS 6.3 64-bit virtual running under VMware 2.0.2 fresh install with
> FTP/Samba/NFS running.  I copied 500+GB of data from the old computer to
> the new one using NFS at full network speed (11+ MB/sec).  Life's good.
>
> Now here it is a day later, and my samba write speed is a blazing 80KB/sec
> (up from 40KB/s when I started troubleshooting).  I read samba should
> approach FTP speed and I verified it does - FTP writes to the new machine
> at about the same speed.  Reads still take place a full speed (now it's on
> a 1Gbps network) - 33MB/sec.  Writes . . . 99.8% slower.  I did not have
> this problem on the previous samba server (CentOS 4.8 32-bit).
>
> I added memory (it now has 1GB RAM, 1 GB swap) and it has 2 CPU's. This
> had no effect.
>
> In summary, NFS works at full speed both ways.  Samba/FTP are fast on
> reads but snail slow on writes.
>
> My next thought is to install ClearOS, test it, and copy their smb.conf.
>  Or install CentOS 5.x and see if it has the same problems.
>
> Any ideas where to look on this one?  smb.conf necessary.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> George Toft


Microsoft 7 uses smb 2.2, btw --> protocol step down might add to the lag?
What is your smb version on each node? CIFS clients?

http://www.codefx.com/CIFS_Explained.htm

A given client and server may implement different sets of protocol
variations which they negotiate before starting a session.

There are a great many considerations for this problem:

0) Samba in VMware:
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws45/doc/network_samba_ws.html

1) Active .vs Passive FTP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqrlBicM8lE

2) Disk type:

Dynamically allocated VMware virtual disks are extremely slow with writes.
 Huge virual disks over say 300 gb are also really really slow for writes.
Raid 5 or greater on VVware is also extremely slow with writes, depending
on the version of VMware.

3) What kind of network are you using?

By default there are three virtual networks created on a VMware server.
They are: VMnet0 – Bridged VMnet1 – Host-only VMnet8 – NAT

4) Networking UDP packets for SMB:

SMB uses UDP which is a connection-less protocol. In other words it simply
broadcasts.

UDP uses a simple communication model without implicit transmission checks
for guaranteeing reliability, sequencing, or datagram integrity. Though
these factors might seem to suggest that UDP is not a useful protocol, it
is still widely used in particular areas where speed, more than
reliability, is of utmost importance. With UDP, error checks and
corrections are carried out in the communicating application, not at the
network layer. However, if error checks and corrections are needed at the
network layer, the application can use Transmission Control Protocol (TCP)
or Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP), which are specifically
formulated for this reason.  Since UDP does not have the overhead of
checking whether the data has reached the destination every time it is
sent, it makes the protocol that much faster and more efficient. UDP is
often used for time sensitive applications where missing data is preferred
to late arriving data.

UDP packets can also create broadcast storms (NFS 3), therefore it's not
suggested that SMB or  older NFS3

5) Putting it all together: Using Samba for File Sharing on a Host-only
Network

On a Linux host computer, VMware ESX Server can automatically install and
configure a Samba server to act as a file server for Microsoft Windows
guest operating systems. You can then use Windows Explorer in the virtual
machine to move and copy files between virtual machine and host — or
between virtual machines on the same network — just as you would with files
on physical computers that share a network connection.

The lightly modified Samba server installed by VMware ESX Server runs over
the VMware ESX Server virtual Ethernet and the Samba traffic between
different operating systems is isolated from actual local area networks.
The source code diffs for the changes, based on Samba 2.0.6, are available
from VMware.
Adding User Names and Passwords to the VMware ESX Server Samba Password File

You may add user names and passwords to the VMware ESX Server Samba
password file at any time from a terminal window on your Linux host
computer.

   1. Log in to the root account by typing the following command at the
   prompt:
   su

   2. Run the VMware ESX Server Samba password command.
   vmware-smbpasswd vmnet1 -a 

   where  is the user name you want to add.
   3. Follow the instructions on the screen.

   *Note:* vmware-smbpasswd is based on the standard Samba password
   program. If you are familiar with the options used in smbpasswd, you may
   use any of them in vmware-smbpasswd.
   4. Log out of the root account.
   exit

   If you receive an error message that says

Re: Samba/FTP slow write fast read

[James Mcphee]

Agreed.  Proxmox is awesome for tiny, clonable instances.  I use KVM for
most things, but proxmox for things like tossing up LAMP instances for devs.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 9:14 AM, George Toft  wrote:

>  proxmox rox!  Thanks for the tip.
>
> Regards,
>
> George Toft
>
> On 10/31/2012 4:49 PM, JD Austin wrote:
>
> I second the Proxmox VE recommendation; expecially if you use the virtio
> drivers.
> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/WindowsGuestDrivers/Download_Drivers
> If you must have USB support then go with Virtualbox though.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Eric Shubert  wrote:
>
>> While I still have a couple hosts running VMWare Server 2.0.2 on CentOS
>> 5.x, I've given up that ship. I think you're walking on thin ice running
>> VMWare Server 2 on just about anything these days, especially Windoze. I
>> doubt you'll find much help solving any problems with Server 2, given that
>> VMWare has dropped it as I expect most users have also by now.
>>
>> I highly recommend running Proxmox VE as a virtualization host platform.
>> It's similar to VMware Server in many ways, but I've found it even easier
>> to use. While it requires a cpu that supports virtualization, that's not so
>> hard to find these days.
>>
>> We're beginning to document the process of building a Tagcose server
>> based on PVE. See http://tagcose.com for details. We meet monthly at UAT
>> (2nd Sat) to work on Tagcose development. You're welcome to join us if
>> you'd like.
>>
>> --
>> -Eric 'shubes'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/28/2012 01:13 PM, George Toft wrote:
>>
>>>  Continuing saga . . .
>>> SMB and FTP from another physical to this virtual run at full speed.
>>> SMB from every Win7 box except this one runs at full speed.  The
>>> communications bog down only for SMB/FTP on the physical host to the
>>> VM.  Next step is to build a dedicated VMware host.  I probably should
>>> have done that to begin with, but was trying to cut down on the number
>>> of physical systems running.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> George Toft
>>>
>>> On 10/28/2012 7:13 AM, Michael Havens wrote:
>>>
  thanks for the update!
 :-)~MIKE~(-:


 On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:07 PM, George Toft >>>   > wrote:

 Further investigation shows it's not FTP nor samba.  It's Windows
 7 (which I used for Windows file and FTP).  Using smbclient on a
 Linux box I get 19MB/sec and FTP from Linux I get 32MB/sec.
  Concurrent with replacing the old file server was the purchase of
 a new PC.  I guess we know what XP does better than Windows 7.

 Regards,

 George Toft

 On 10/27/2012 6:01 PM, George Toft wrote:

 Spent several hours researching this one - can't find a
 solution.  I hope someone here can hit me with a clue-by-four.

 CentOS 6.3 64-bit virtual running under VMware 2.0.2 fresh
 install with FTP/Samba/NFS running.  I copied 500+GB of data
 from the old computer to the new one using NFS at full network
 speed (11+ MB/sec).  Life's good.

 Now here it is a day later, and my samba write speed is a
 blazing 80KB/sec (up from 40KB/s when I started
 troubleshooting).  I read samba should approach FTP speed and
 I verified it does - FTP writes to the new machine at about
 the same speed.  Reads still take place a full speed (now it's
 on a 1Gbps network) - 33MB/sec. Writes . . . 99.8% slower.  I
 did not have this problem on the previous samba server (CentOS
 4.8 32-bit).

 I added memory (it now has 1GB RAM, 1 GB swap) and it has 2
 CPU's. This had no effect.

 In summary, NFS works at full speed both ways.  Samba/FTP are
 fast on reads but snail slow on writes.

 My next thought is to install ClearOS, test it, and copy their
 smb.conf.  Or install CentOS 5.x and see if it has the same
 problems.

 Any ideas where to look on this one?  smb.conf necessary.


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Re: Samba/FTP slow write fast read

[George Toft]

proxmox rox!  Thanks for the tip.

Regards,

George Toft

On 10/31/2012 4:49 PM, JD Austin wrote:
I second the Proxmox VE recommendation; expecially if you use the 
virtio drivers.

http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/WindowsGuestDrivers/Download_Drivers
If you must have USB support then go with Virtualbox though.


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Eric Shubert > wrote:


While I still have a couple hosts running VMWare Server 2.0.2 on
CentOS 5.x, I've given up that ship. I think you're walking on
thin ice running VMWare Server 2 on just about anything these
days, especially Windoze. I doubt you'll find much help solving
any problems with Server 2, given that VMWare has dropped it as I
expect most users have also by now.

I highly recommend running Proxmox VE as a virtualization host
platform. It's similar to VMware Server in many ways, but I've
found it even easier to use. While it requires a cpu that supports
virtualization, that's not so hard to find these days.

We're beginning to document the process of building a Tagcose
server based on PVE. See http://tagcose.com for details. We meet
monthly at UAT (2nd Sat) to work on Tagcose development. You're
welcome to join us if you'd like.

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'





On 10/28/2012 01:13 PM, George Toft wrote:

Continuing saga . . .
SMB and FTP from another physical to this virtual run at full
speed.
SMB from every Win7 box except this one runs at full speed.  The
communications bog down only for SMB/FTP on the physical host
to the
VM.  Next step is to build a dedicated VMware host.  I
probably should
have done that to begin with, but was trying to cut down on
the number
of physical systems running.

Regards,

George Toft

On 10/28/2012 7:13 AM, Michael Havens wrote:

thanks for the update!
:-)~MIKE~(-:


On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 10:07 PM, George Toft
mailto:geo...@georgetoft.com>
>> wrote:

Further investigation shows it's not FTP nor samba.
 It's Windows
7 (which I used for Windows file and FTP).  Using
smbclient on a
Linux box I get 19MB/sec and FTP from Linux I get
32MB/sec.
 Concurrent with replacing the old file server was the
purchase of
a new PC.  I guess we know what XP does better than
Windows 7.

Regards,

George Toft

On 10/27/2012 6:01 PM, George Toft wrote:

Spent several hours researching this one - can't
find a
solution.  I hope someone here can hit me with a
clue-by-four.

CentOS 6.3 64-bit virtual running under VMware
2.0.2 fresh
install with FTP/Samba/NFS running.  I copied
500+GB of data
from the old computer to the new one using NFS at
full network
speed (11+ MB/sec).  Life's good.

Now here it is a day later, and my samba write
speed is a
blazing 80KB/sec (up from 40KB/s when I started
troubleshooting).  I read samba should approach
FTP speed and
I verified it does - FTP writes to the new machine
at about
the same speed.  Reads still take place a full
speed (now it's
on a 1Gbps network) - 33MB/sec. Writes . . . 99.8%
slower.  I
did not have this problem on the previous samba
server (CentOS
4.8 32-bit).

I added memory (it now has 1GB RAM, 1 GB swap) and
it has 2
CPU's. This had no effect.

In summary, NFS works at full speed both ways.
 Samba/FTP are
fast on reads but snail slow on writes.

My next thought is to install ClearOS, test it,
and copy their
smb.conf.  Or install CentOS 5.x and see if it has
the same
problems.

Any ideas where to look on this one?  smb.conf
necessary.


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