Re: Linux dual boot?
I have just had my vmware workstation driven to a crawl by VM's running. but thats my general usage on top of that and I'm pretty heavy haded on my machines resources or spoiled both fit. and i have felt similar performance impacts when doing the same thing under Linux with vmware server on the same hardware On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Bryan O'Neal wrote: > Not to defend windows here but I have no issues with VM on windows. > Mind you I use ESXi for all serious work related stuff now days but I > use Server2 on my windows desktop with no issues. The only > "performance" hit is that you need to pay attention to windows disk > and memory optimization, which is something you don't need to worry > about in Linux. But that is just a windows sucks issue not a VM under > windows sucks issue. > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: >> Eric Shubert wrote: >>> >>> Stephen wrote: What i personally envision for my desires is a dual boot system that can run the non-active system in VM. so if i boot windows i can run my Linux install in vm, or if o boot Linux i can run windows in VM. >>> >>> That would be possible if your Linux and Win are on their own drives. Raw >>> Devices works with raw drives, but I'm not sure about raw partitions (I have >>> a hunch raw paritions might be possible, but I haven't seen anyone claiming >>> to have done it yet). You would need a 3rd drive to run the host OS from, >>> possibly a USB drive. Someone on the list here was doing something along >>> these lines fairly recently. >>> It can be done i think but i haven't had it work out well yet... (that whole flipping hardware about) >> >> This part just hit home. Windows will have a problem switching >> configurations due to hardware differences. I don't know of a way around >> that. Linux shouldn't have much of a problem with this though. >> And ext and reiser fs's handle the weird disk load needed for OS/VM allot better and Linux as a whole doesn't dink with the disk anywhere near as much as windows. so if windows is your host this is my personal suggestion if you have the budget for it. Ideally i would love to se wine take such a hold that i can drop windows entirely, but i think that is unlikely to happen. MS is developing their back-end strongly and its to much for the wine team to really stay on top of unless some of those API's are open sourced. but they may prove me wrong yet. >>> >>> I'm a little surprised that anyone would choose any Win OS as a VM host. >>> I'm not surprised that VMs on Windoze have performance issues. >>> >> >> >> -- >> -Eric 'shubes' >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Hyperthread isn't really multi-thread the way multiple cores is. What hyperthread does is de-bond two of the hyperscalar pipelines and run each thread's instructions through a different pipeline. If your workload per-thread is such that it works well with hyperscalar processing (nearly all of the server-type workloads I work on are this way) then hyperthreading can actually reduce performance by increasing pipeline stalls while decreasing single-threaded performance. The pipeline stall thing is a particularly big deal for server-type workloads, since some of the hardware for each core is still shared by all of it's pipelines (particularly some of the matrix-type instructions and a lot of I/O hardware), and some instructions cannot be performed in hyperthreaded mode because they require both pipelines, use shared hardware elements, or force pipeline flushes; server processes tend to have a lot more of these types of instructions. Many desktop workloads will encounter the same kind of effects, but Desktop applications usually spend far more time waiting for the user than vice-versa, so it's not as visible. One thing I've seen directly in the "desktop" applications space is that some types of video processing and some games get a significant improvement in single-thread speeds if you disable hyperthreading in the CPU (if your BIOS and chip support that, not all do). For Core i7 systems, in particular, some exceptionally intensive video games seem to run much faster with Hyperthreading disabled (of course these tend to be single-threaded programs that can't gain from Hyperthreading anyway). The exact impacts do depend a great deal on the specifics of the system using Hyperthreading; the new core-i architecture implements Hyperthreading a lot better than the old Pentium 4 architecture (the 2 architectures in between didn't have Hyperthreading AFAIK). Critically, the Atom seems to use the older approach, and as a result I find them to perform very poorly on some tasks that *should not be* taxing to a 1.6 GHz CPU. Bryan O'Neal wrote: > Joseph - You are one of those people who, if you have the time, > actually seeks to understand things as deeply as possible. Thus I > would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about Intel's > Hyperthreading. A long time ago (say 5-7 years ago on the P4) I too > had random issues but I never figured out what the root problem was, > only that turning off HT fixed the "issues". I have not see any issues > since then. > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Joseph Sinclair > wrote: >> Nice to see an on-topic post; thanks Mike. >> >> >> >> Depends on what you want to learn and how stable you need it to be. >> >> For stable, I'd go with the latest Fedora, RHEL (and plan to upgrade to 6 >> when it's out), or Debian stable (should be out soon). >> >> For more learning-on-the-edge I'd try sidux (In fact I'm doing that on my >> laptop as soon as I have a few hours to run the install and tweak things). >> It's Debian Sid (not terribly stable bleeding-edge) with some cleanup to >> make it slightly less unstable, and a lot easier to install. >> >> The advantage: >> �Absolute bleeding edge Debian with the latest kernel, drivers, software, >> etc... >> �Debian! >> �None of the *@&# Canonical and Gnome have dumped into Ubuntu that finally >> persuaded me it's not worth the effort. >> The Disadvantages: >> �Not as stable as official Debian releases (although it's pretty close to >> the stability of Ubuntu or Fedora) >> �Always updating, so you have to create your own "release cycle" by choosing >> when to update (which means watching the fora and updating when it's >> relatively stable, then cherry-picking only important updates between times). >> �A lot less polished, so you'll have to learn a good bit more system >> administration and other tasks the newer GUI tools cover over in the more >> polished distros. >> �If it breaks, it's your problem. �DO NOT run sidux on a line-of-business >> system that can't be down for a few days if something goes wrong. >> >> >> >> My next system will probably be an AMD 1090T (Hexacore!) or an Opteron >> 12-core CPU (if I can afford that one). �That is, unless a better CPU comes >> out between now and when I scrape together the cash for a new "big" system. >> I'll also probably load up 12G or more of RAM (the Opteron would support up >> to 64G, IIRC). >> I generally prefer the AMD chips, as they're a LOT cheaper per-core, and >> I've had a lot of issues with Hyperthreading in Intel chips actually slowing >> things down, but my workloads are not "normal", either. >> >> If I had $12K just laying around I'd probably pick up something like the >> server system here >> (http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/2U/2042/AS-2042G-6RF.cfm) with 4 >> 12-core CPU, 128G RAM and 6 1TB drives (and do a bit of rewiring on the >> house to support the dual 1200W power supplies). >> >> >> >> As for what I'
Re: Linux dual boot?
Not to defend windows here but I have no issues with VM on windows. Mind you I use ESXi for all serious work related stuff now days but I use Server2 on my windows desktop with no issues. The only "performance" hit is that you need to pay attention to windows disk and memory optimization, which is something you don't need to worry about in Linux. But that is just a windows sucks issue not a VM under windows sucks issue. On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: > Eric Shubert wrote: >> >> Stephen wrote: >>> >>> What i personally envision for my desires is a dual boot system that >>> can run the non-active system in VM. so if i boot windows i can run my >>> Linux install in vm, or if o boot Linux i can run windows in VM. >> >> That would be possible if your Linux and Win are on their own drives. Raw >> Devices works with raw drives, but I'm not sure about raw partitions (I have >> a hunch raw paritions might be possible, but I haven't seen anyone claiming >> to have done it yet). You would need a 3rd drive to run the host OS from, >> possibly a USB drive. Someone on the list here was doing something along >> these lines fairly recently. >> >>> It can be done i think but i haven't had it work out well yet... (that >>> whole flipping hardware about) > > This part just hit home. Windows will have a problem switching > configurations due to hardware differences. I don't know of a way around > that. Linux shouldn't have much of a problem with this though. > >>> And ext and reiser fs's handle the weird disk load needed for OS/VM >>> allot better and Linux as a whole doesn't dink with the disk anywhere >>> near as much as windows. so if windows is your host this is my >>> personal suggestion if you have the budget for it. Ideally i would >>> love to se wine take such a hold that i can drop windows entirely, but >>> i think that is unlikely to happen. MS is developing their back-end >>> strongly and its to much for the wine team to really stay on top of >>> unless some of those API's are open sourced. but they may prove me >>> wrong yet. >> >> I'm a little surprised that anyone would choose any Win OS as a VM host. >> I'm not surprised that VMs on Windoze have performance issues. >> > > > -- > -Eric 'shubes' > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Eric Shubert wrote: Stephen wrote: What i personally envision for my desires is a dual boot system that can run the non-active system in VM. so if i boot windows i can run my Linux install in vm, or if o boot Linux i can run windows in VM. That would be possible if your Linux and Win are on their own drives. Raw Devices works with raw drives, but I'm not sure about raw partitions (I have a hunch raw paritions might be possible, but I haven't seen anyone claiming to have done it yet). You would need a 3rd drive to run the host OS from, possibly a USB drive. Someone on the list here was doing something along these lines fairly recently. It can be done i think but i haven't had it work out well yet... (that whole flipping hardware about) This part just hit home. Windows will have a problem switching configurations due to hardware differences. I don't know of a way around that. Linux shouldn't have much of a problem with this though. And ext and reiser fs's handle the weird disk load needed for OS/VM allot better and Linux as a whole doesn't dink with the disk anywhere near as much as windows. so if windows is your host this is my personal suggestion if you have the budget for it. Ideally i would love to se wine take such a hold that i can drop windows entirely, but i think that is unlikely to happen. MS is developing their back-end strongly and its to much for the wine team to really stay on top of unless some of those API's are open sourced. but they may prove me wrong yet. I'm a little surprised that anyone would choose any Win OS as a VM host. I'm not surprised that VMs on Windoze have performance issues. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Stephen wrote: What i personally envision for my desires is a dual boot system that can run the non-active system in VM. so if i boot windows i can run my Linux install in vm, or if o boot Linux i can run windows in VM. That would be possible if your Linux and Win are on their own drives. Raw Devices works with raw drives, but I'm not sure about raw partitions (I have a hunch raw paritions might be possible, but I haven't seen anyone claiming to have done it yet). You would need a 3rd drive to run the host OS from, possibly a USB drive. Someone on the list here was doing something along these lines fairly recently. It can be done i think but i haven't had it work out well yet... (that whole flipping hardware about) And ext and reiser fs's handle the weird disk load needed for OS/VM allot better and Linux as a whole doesn't dink with the disk anywhere near as much as windows. so if windows is your host this is my personal suggestion if you have the budget for it. Ideally i would love to se wine take such a hold that i can drop windows entirely, but i think that is unlikely to happen. MS is developing their back-end strongly and its to much for the wine team to really stay on top of unless some of those API's are open sourced. but they may prove me wrong yet. I'm a little surprised that anyone would choose any Win OS as a VM host. I'm not surprised that VMs on Windoze have performance issues. -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
What i personally envision for my desires is a dual boot system that can run the non-active system in VM. so if i boot windows i can run my Linux install in vm, or if o boot Linux i can run windows in VM. It can be done i think but i haven't had it work out well yet... (that whole flipping hardware about) And ext and reiser fs's handle the weird disk load needed for OS/VM allot better and Linux as a whole doesn't dink with the disk anywhere near as much as windows. so if windows is your host this is my personal suggestion if you have the budget for it. Ideally i would love to se wine take such a hold that i can drop windows entirely, but i think that is unlikely to happen. MS is developing their back-end strongly and its to much for the wine team to really stay on top of unless some of those API's are open sourced. but they may prove me wrong yet. On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Eric Shubert wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> >> It can help with some performance issues to have your virtual drives >> stored on a seperate physical drive from the OS especially in vmware >> server on windows it can make your system crawl > > I can't speak of VMware Server on windows, but on CentOS this doesn't seem > to be much of a problem. There are however various configuration settings > that make a huge impact on performance. I've helped to write about these at > http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/VMware. > >> I do alot of weird vm things just to try them and there is a setting >> that looks like you can map a virtual machine directly to a physical >> storage device but I'm out of room to test this fully but it would be >> immense to have a dual boot with vm abilities for you to access your >> non dominant os > > I've used Raw Device Mapping, and it works nicely. While I haven't used it > for the OS image, I don't know why that couldn't be done. > See http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/VMware#Raw_Device_Mapping > >> That's been my holy grail of vm/dual boot (just above accelerated >> graphics in a vm) > > I'm not real clear what your objective is (what data you want to share > between images), but having the data on a raw disk certainly makes it more > manageable. If you need to access the data from multiple VMs concurrently, > you can create a VM data server that provides nfs, samba and/or netatalk > access to your data on the raw drive. This is what I've done. I have 2 raw > disks that the VM data server uses in a raid-1 mirror as well. Sort of a VM > backplane. ;) > > -- > -Eric 'shubes' > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Stephen wrote: It can help with some performance issues to have your virtual drives stored on a seperate physical drive from the OS especially in vmware server on windows it can make your system crawl I can't speak of VMware Server on windows, but on CentOS this doesn't seem to be much of a problem. There are however various configuration settings that make a huge impact on performance. I've helped to write about these at http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/VMware. I do alot of weird vm things just to try them and there is a setting that looks like you can map a virtual machine directly to a physical storage device but I'm out of room to test this fully but it would be immense to have a dual boot with vm abilities for you to access your non dominant os I've used Raw Device Mapping, and it works nicely. While I haven't used it for the OS image, I don't know why that couldn't be done. See http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/VMware#Raw_Device_Mapping That's been my holy grail of vm/dual boot (just above accelerated graphics in a vm) I'm not real clear what your objective is (what data you want to share between images), but having the data on a raw disk certainly makes it more manageable. If you need to access the data from multiple VMs concurrently, you can create a VM data server that provides nfs, samba and/or netatalk access to your data on the raw drive. This is what I've done. I have 2 raw disks that the VM data server uses in a raid-1 mirror as well. Sort of a VM backplane. ;) -- -Eric 'shubes' --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Joseph - You are one of those people who, if you have the time, actually seeks to understand things as deeply as possible. Thus I would be very interested in hearing what you have to say about Intel's Hyperthreading. A long time ago (say 5-7 years ago on the P4) I too had random issues but I never figured out what the root problem was, only that turning off HT fixed the "issues". I have not see any issues since then. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Joseph Sinclair wrote: > Nice to see an on-topic post; thanks Mike. > > > > Depends on what you want to learn and how stable you need it to be. > > For stable, I'd go with the latest Fedora, RHEL (and plan to upgrade to 6 > when it's out), or Debian stable (should be out soon). > > For more learning-on-the-edge I'd try sidux (In fact I'm doing that on my > laptop as soon as I have a few hours to run the install and tweak things). > It's Debian Sid (not terribly stable bleeding-edge) with some cleanup to make > it slightly less unstable, and a lot easier to install. > > The advantage: > Absolute bleeding edge Debian with the latest kernel, drivers, software, > etc... > Debian! > None of the *@&# Canonical and Gnome have dumped into Ubuntu that finally > persuaded me it's not worth the effort. > The Disadvantages: > Not as stable as official Debian releases (although it's pretty close to the > stability of Ubuntu or Fedora) > Always updating, so you have to create your own "release cycle" by choosing > when to update (which means watching the fora and updating when it's > relatively stable, then cherry-picking only important updates between times). > A lot less polished, so you'll have to learn a good bit more system > administration and other tasks the newer GUI tools cover over in the more > polished distros. > If it breaks, it's your problem. DO NOT run sidux on a line-of-business > system that can't be down for a few days if something goes wrong. > > > > My next system will probably be an AMD 1090T (Hexacore!) or an Opteron > 12-core CPU (if I can afford that one). That is, unless a better CPU comes > out between now and when I scrape together the cash for a new "big" system. > I'll also probably load up 12G or more of RAM (the Opteron would support up > to 64G, IIRC). > I generally prefer the AMD chips, as they're a LOT cheaper per-core, and I've > had a lot of issues with Hyperthreading in Intel chips actually slowing > things down, but my workloads are not "normal", either. > > If I had $12K just laying around I'd probably pick up something like the > server system here > (http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/2U/2042/AS-2042G-6RF.cfm) with 4 > 12-core CPU, 128G RAM and 6 1TB drives (and do a bit of rewiring on the house > to support the dual 1200W power supplies). > > > > As for what I'd recommend to someone NOT looking for a video > processor/compilation workhorse/VM host: > > If you want a Gaming monstrosity, check out the i7 980x for Intel > 6-core/12-thread bliss (although it costs $1000), and pair it with a nice > quartet of high-end Radeon GPU's (like a pair of HD 5970 or 4 HD 5870 cards) > in a crossfire setup. > The slight edge in single-thread performance on the i7 makes a difference > when building a rig for playing high-end video games, and for a high-end > gaming rig, CPU price shouldn't be a major concern (especially if you intend > to go whole-hog and enable maximum power-boost support with a phase-change > cooling setup). > > > > If you want a true low-cost value system for 64-bit, however, try the new > Intel Atom D510 for 64-bit dual-core at a seriously low power usage (13 > watts, including graphics). It tops out, however, at 4G (and not all boards > support that), so 64-bit is more for style than real need. > For 1080p video playback, make sure to pick an ion2 system, although that > will require running the NVidia binary blobs and adds a few watts to the > power usage. > Just don't try to run virtual machines on it, as it lacks VT-x support. > > > ==Joseph++ > > mike Enriquez wrote: >> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer >> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. >> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only >> requirement is that it further my linux education. >> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. >> >> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use >> an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to >> be DDR3 1600 MHz. >> >> I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mike Enriquez >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > --
Re: Linux dual boot?
I think my posts got blended with a dual boot the 2nd drive will allow you to preserve your finicky windows 7 bootsector It can help with some performance issues to have your virtual drives stored on a seperate physical drive from the OS especially in vmware server on windows it can make your system crawl I do alot of weird vm things just to try them and there is a setting that looks like you can map a virtual machine directly to a physical storage device but I'm out of room to test this fully but it would be immense to have a dual boot with vm abilities for you to access your non dominant os That's been my holy grail of vm/dual boot (just above accelerated graphics in a vm) On 5/17/10, Bryan O'Neal wrote: > Stephen why the external drive vrs a virtual drive using virtual box > or VMWare? Just seeing if you have something cool you can do with it I > have not thought of. > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Stephen wrote: >> So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a >> new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first >> drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged >> >> That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts >> content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on >> your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any >> number of tools (i like clonezilla) >> >> and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical >> masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer >> out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal >> more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well >> documented. >> >> but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when >> learning. >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- Sent from my mobile device A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Nice to see an on-topic post; thanks Mike. Depends on what you want to learn and how stable you need it to be. For stable, I'd go with the latest Fedora, RHEL (and plan to upgrade to 6 when it's out), or Debian stable (should be out soon). For more learning-on-the-edge I'd try sidux (In fact I'm doing that on my laptop as soon as I have a few hours to run the install and tweak things). It's Debian Sid (not terribly stable bleeding-edge) with some cleanup to make it slightly less unstable, and a lot easier to install. The advantage: Absolute bleeding edge Debian with the latest kernel, drivers, software, etc... Debian! None of the *@&# Canonical and Gnome have dumped into Ubuntu that finally persuaded me it's not worth the effort. The Disadvantages: Not as stable as official Debian releases (although it's pretty close to the stability of Ubuntu or Fedora) Always updating, so you have to create your own "release cycle" by choosing when to update (which means watching the fora and updating when it's relatively stable, then cherry-picking only important updates between times). A lot less polished, so you'll have to learn a good bit more system administration and other tasks the newer GUI tools cover over in the more polished distros. If it breaks, it's your problem. DO NOT run sidux on a line-of-business system that can't be down for a few days if something goes wrong. My next system will probably be an AMD 1090T (Hexacore!) or an Opteron 12-core CPU (if I can afford that one). That is, unless a better CPU comes out between now and when I scrape together the cash for a new "big" system. I'll also probably load up 12G or more of RAM (the Opteron would support up to 64G, IIRC). I generally prefer the AMD chips, as they're a LOT cheaper per-core, and I've had a lot of issues with Hyperthreading in Intel chips actually slowing things down, but my workloads are not "normal", either. If I had $12K just laying around I'd probably pick up something like the server system here (http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/2U/2042/AS-2042G-6RF.cfm) with 4 12-core CPU, 128G RAM and 6 1TB drives (and do a bit of rewiring on the house to support the dual 1200W power supplies). As for what I'd recommend to someone NOT looking for a video processor/compilation workhorse/VM host: If you want a Gaming monstrosity, check out the i7 980x for Intel 6-core/12-thread bliss (although it costs $1000), and pair it with a nice quartet of high-end Radeon GPU's (like a pair of HD 5970 or 4 HD 5870 cards) in a crossfire setup. The slight edge in single-thread performance on the i7 makes a difference when building a rig for playing high-end video games, and for a high-end gaming rig, CPU price shouldn't be a major concern (especially if you intend to go whole-hog and enable maximum power-boost support with a phase-change cooling setup). If you want a true low-cost value system for 64-bit, however, try the new Intel Atom D510 for 64-bit dual-core at a seriously low power usage (13 watts, including graphics). It tops out, however, at 4G (and not all boards support that), so 64-bit is more for style than real need. For 1080p video playback, make sure to pick an ion2 system, although that will require running the NVidia binary blobs and adds a few watts to the power usage. Just don't try to run virtual machines on it, as it lacks VT-x support. ==Joseph++ mike Enriquez wrote: > I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer > with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. > I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only > requirement is that it further my linux education. > I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. > > Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use > an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to > be DDR3 1600 MHz. > > I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. > > Thanks > > Mike Enriquez > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
Stephen why the external drive vrs a virtual drive using virtual box or VMWare? Just seeing if you have something cool you can do with it I have not thought of. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Stephen wrote: > So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a > new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first > drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged > > That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts > content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on > your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any > number of tools (i like clonezilla) > > and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical > masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer > out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal > more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well > documented. > > but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when learning. > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
We really need to do a panel discussion on VM's for one of our meetings. VMware is also free for basic use. If you want enterprise features not available in things like virtual box you pay for it (But you do get a 10% LUG discount). You can run VMWare server on windows, linux, or even their own bare mettle OS ESX. The VM's are portable between the systems (with the exception of if you create a 64bit VM and try to move it to a 32bit server). You can also put the server on, well, a server and access the VM's over a web page. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Stephen wrote: > If you go with a virtual machine route you can also go with > virtualbox. it has matured well, and has some hardware graphics > acceleration. Also you can get a FOSS version that is cross platform. > so if you decide to switch you can save your vm's and move them. > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bryan O'Neal > wrote: >> I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or >> some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning >> Linux. And VMWare is supper easy >> >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert wrote: >>> I concur. >>> I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines >>> (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual >>> booting. VMs are much nicer to use. >>> -- >>> -Eric 'shubes' >>> >>> Bryan O'Neal wrote: I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are quite different but all very good. See which one you like best. Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy props. For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both equally. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips wrote: > > I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for > about > 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. > > Mark > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: >> >> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer >> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. >> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only >> requirement is that it further my linux education. >> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. >> >> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use >> an >> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be >> DDR3 1600 MHz. >> >> I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mike Enriquez >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > >>> >>> --- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > > > > -- > A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from > rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. > > Stephen > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
If you go with a virtual machine route you can also go with virtualbox. it has matured well, and has some hardware graphics acceleration. Also you can get a FOSS version that is cross platform. so if you decide to switch you can save your vm's and move them. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Bryan O'Neal wrote: > I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or > some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning > Linux. And VMWare is supper easy > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert wrote: >> I concur. >> I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines >> (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual >> booting. VMs are much nicer to use. >> -- >> -Eric 'shubes' >> >> Bryan O'Neal wrote: >>> >>> I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are >>> quite different but all very good. See which one you like best. >>> Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn >>> it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at >>> how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy >>> props. >>> For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for >>> desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both >>> equally. >>> >>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips >>> wrote: I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. Mark On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: > > I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer > with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. > I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only > requirement is that it further my linux education. > I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. > > Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use > an > i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be > DDR3 1600 MHz. > > I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. > > Thanks > > Mike Enriquez > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >> > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep after you hit the snooze button. Stephen --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
So far all great suggestions. If you can afford it i would suggest a new/extra HDD for your Linux install and setting it to be your first drive (after you install windows with the "spare drive" unplugged That way you have a drive you can torture and alter to your hearts content, and you don't have to worry about breaking the boot sector on your win7 install. It is not repairable, you can back it up with any number of tools (i like clonezilla) and for a bistro to learn with, Depending on your personal technical masochism you can install Gentoo. It made me want to chuck my computer out the window during install, but when i was done I knew a great deal more about the underbelly of Linux, and Gentoo is pretty well documented. but the extra HDD i think is a very good suggestion. especially when learning. --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
I will agree with that as well. Unless you have a vid capture card or some other special hardware VM's are a much better option for learning Linux. And VMWare is supper easy On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Eric Shubert wrote: > I concur. > I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines > (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual > booting. VMs are much nicer to use. > -- > -Eric 'shubes' > > Bryan O'Neal wrote: >> >> I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are >> quite different but all very good. See which one you like best. >> Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn >> it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at >> how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy >> props. >> For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for >> desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both >> equally. >> >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips >> wrote: >>> >>> I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for >>> about >>> 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only requirement is that it further my linux education. I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be DDR3 1600 MHz. I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. Thanks Mike Enriquez --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> >>> --- >>> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >>> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss >>> > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
I concur. I also strongly recommend running additional hosts as virtual machines (either with VirtualBox or VMware Player/Workstation) instead of dual booting. VMs are much nicer to use. -- -Eric 'shubes' Bryan O'Neal wrote: I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are quite different but all very good. See which one you like best. Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy props. For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both equally. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips wrote: I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. Mark On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only requirement is that it further my linux education. I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be DDR3 1600 MHz. I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. Thanks Mike Enriquez --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
I agree - The SuSE, RedHat (Fedora), and Debian (Ubuntu) branches are quite different but all very good. See which one you like best. Personally I loved SuSE at first but could not spend the time to learn it as well as Fedora or Ubuntu. And, well, Ubuntu just amazes me at how simple it can be for simple things, like printing, so it get heavy props. For servers I am almost pure RedHat (Cent OS to be specific) for desktops I have one Ubuntu and one Fedora on my desk. I use them both equally. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Mark Phillips wrote: > I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about > 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. > > Mark > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: >> >> I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer >> with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. >> I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only >> requirement is that it further my linux education. >> I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. >> >> Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an >> i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be >> DDR3 1600 MHz. >> >> I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mike Enriquez >> --- >> PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: >> http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
I am partial to Debian. I have it running on a a 64bit Dell laptop for about 6 months with no problems. I also run Windows 7 Pro as a virtual machine. Mark On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:58 PM, mike Enriquez wrote: > I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer > with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. > I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only > requirement is that it further my linux education. > I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. > > Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an > i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be > DDR3 1600 MHz. > > I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. > > Thanks > > Mike Enriquez > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Linux dual boot?
I recommend giving opensuse, ubuntu, and fedora a try. Any of those will be a great start. If you want to try a server, I'd go with centos since its exactly like rhel. If you have any questions feel free to contact me off list. from my DROID On May 17, 2010 9:58 PM, "mike Enriquez" wrote: I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only requirement is that it further my linux education. I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be DDR3 1600 MHz. I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. Thanks Mike Enriquez --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Linux dual boot?
I am planning to build a dual boot workstation. It will a 64bit computer with Windows 7 pro but I have yet to select a linux distro. I am open to any suggestions. Which linux distro would you use. My only requirement is that it further my linux education. I am willing to try any Linux Distro in workstation or server version. Also what would you put into your 64 bit computer? I am planning to use an i7 extreme processor on an MSI X58 pro-E motherboard. Ram is going to be DDR3 1600 MHz. I am open to any ideas. Please send me your ideas. Thanks Mike Enriquez --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
