Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/15/olpc-xo-officially-gets-windows-xp-children-of-the-world-to-be/ http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/may08/05-15MSOLPCPR.mspx --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
WAIT IT GETS BETTER, hehehe. http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/20/olpc-unveils-first-prototype-of-xo-2-0/ OLPC unveils first prototype of XO 2.0 Just when it looked like OLPC was finally getting at least one foot firmly grounded in reality with the upcoming Windows XP version of its low-priced XO, Nick Neg takes things back into the stratosphere with the unveiling of the XO 2.0. Due in 2010, the new laptop will employ dual sunlight-readable touchscreen displays in a smaller, folding e-book form factor. Sure, it looks totally amazing, but we'll believe it when we see it. As if that weren't ambitious enough, Nick calls a $20 pricepoint per display not out of the question, thanks to the ubiquity of LCD screens for DVD players, with a final laptop price of $75. Sure Nick, but 2010? Let's work on getting the XO down to $100 first, shall we? Oh, and speaking of the XO, the Give 1 Get 1 program will be started back up in August or September of this year. There's just never a dull moment with these folks. ::: Food for thought ::: --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
That was a serious concern? Man, I thought it was standard practice to use a usb hub with power plugin when using 2 items of relatively high power usage. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Dennis Kibbe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was at the FSF office in Boston in March when Richard, Justin and JAG (FSF > sysadmins) were trying the work out the details of using the XO. The USB bus > didn't have enough power for the external hard drive and the non-proprietary > USB wifi dongle to be used at the same time. -- Thanks, Dan Lund --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
Ted Gould <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 21:01 -0700, Dennis Kibbe wrote: > > I agree with everyone else that this is a sad day. Following > > on the ISO fiasco I can't see it as any other than more of > > M$ Embrace, Extend and Extinguish. > > No, I think this is much simpler. MS realizes that if they loose out on > the netbook market they loose in an massive future market. The OLPC was > the first and the most recognized of these today. It's a good thing to > put in ads. > > But, more over, besides the PR bump I don't see this as a significant > loss for Linux. The reality is that the OLPC project ha(d|s) tons of > problems, I mean they basically messed up on 16 thousand orders that > they did have. In the future there will be more netbooks, and I imagine > that a lot of them will run Linux. Those will start to be more > interesting and where we should be focusing our attention as a > community. Well put Ted. > The idea of RMS using a laptop built for children is truly poetic. > > --Ted > I was at the FSF office in Boston in March when Richard, Justin and JAG (FSF sysadmins) were trying the work out the details of using the XO. The USB bus didn't have enough power for the external hard drive and the non-proprietary USB wifi dongle to be used at the same time. The XO keyboard was impractical for adults to type on so Richard put a Happy Hacker keyboard on risers to allow it to sit on top of the XO keyboard. On the plus side, he didn't need to used the big under the laptop external battery that he had for the Thinkpad. Dennisk -- "Free as in Freedom" Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 21:01 -0700, Dennis Kibbe wrote: > I agree with everyone else that this is a sad day. Following > on the ISO fiasco I can't see it as any other than more of > M$ Embrace, Extend and Extinguish. No, I think this is much simpler. MS realizes that if they loose out on the netbook market they loose in an massive future market. The OLPC was the first and the most recognized of these today. It's a good thing to put in ads. But, more over, besides the PR bump I don't see this as a significant loss for Linux. The reality is that the OLPC project ha(d|s) tons of problems, I mean they basically messed up on 16 thousand orders that they did have. In the future there will be more netbooks, and I imagine that a lot of them will run Linux. Those will start to be more interesting and where we should be focusing our attention as a community. > The openness of both the hardware (coreboot) and the software stack > in the XO was unique, so much so that RMS is (maybe that should be was > now) planning to use the XO in place of his Thinkpad which because it > didn't have a proprietary BIOS. The idea of RMS using a laptop built for children is truly poetic. --Ted signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
Alan Dayley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Rhune Lord wrote: > > http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 > > Quick read & a little OT but any thoughts? > > I don't see this as OT. > > Negroponte and OLPC was the first major force to overcome the "chicken > and egg" problem with widespread Linux adoption. This problem is that > few mainstream manufacturers, software makers, etc. support Linux > because there are not enough Linux users. And there aren't enough > Linux users because there isn't enough mainstream industry support. > OLPC was to be millions of computers all running Linux/FS/OSS, taking > a huge step to solve the "enough users" side of the problem. > > But, I am very disappointed at the apparent capitulation to using MS > software. It sends the message that Free Software is still not good > enough, even though we know it is and can be. It contradicts many of > the earlier statements made by the OLPC project about autonomy and > local investment for the users of the computers. And so it makes me > think that the project really does not believe in what they set out to > do as the remove a foundational principle. > > And that is sad. > > Alan > I agree with everyone else that this is a sad day. Following on the ISO fiasco I can't see it as any other than more of M$ Embrace, Extend and Extinguish. The openness of both the hardware (coreboot) and the software stack in the XO was unique, so much so that RMS is (maybe that should be was now) planning to use the XO in place of his Thinkpad which because it didn't have a proprietary BIOS. Dennisk -- "Free as in Freedom" Free Software Foundation --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 15:23 -0700, Walter J. Mack wrote: > I got the feeling that the OLPC project got frustrated in dealing with > (some of) the Free and Open Source software people. I never heard him > say that he went to MS because of technology reasons. I think it is more that they're tired of answering the questions "Does it run Word?" and "Does it run Flash?" Unfortunately that's what many people believe a computer is good for, and what they believe that their kids need to learn to be successful in the "real world." They probably should have just put WINE on it and tell them "yes" but the license fees aren't included in the price ;) It's always nice to say yes to something knowing that they're too cheap to take you up on it. --Ted signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 8:51 AM, R P Herrold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 17 May 2008, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > >> There were a lot of indications that something was amiss at OLPC, >> over a year ago there was this story: >> >> >> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9054618 > > a story datelined December 13 2007 is 'over a year ago'? My > calendars must be running slow. ;) You must have a tight schedule... or do you reserve Sunday mornings for internet nitpicking? ;) I never said that article was over a year old... best, jmz -- - http://www.joshuazeidner.com/ --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
On Sat, 17 May 2008, Joshua Zeidner wrote: > There were a lot of indications that something was amiss at OLPC, > over a year ago there was this story: > > > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9054618 a story datelined December 13 2007 is 'over a year ago'? My calendars must be running slow. ;) - R --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
There were a lot of indications that something was amiss at OLPC, over a year ago there was this story: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9054618 which is another example of OLPC upper management using the project for personal profit. -jmz On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Walter J. Mack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I got the feeling that the OLPC project got frustrated in dealing with (some > of) the Free and Open Source software people. I never heard him say that he > went to MS because of technology reasons. > > > > koder wrote: > > I am not sure if this is OT or not. > > Other posts have noted that OLPC will have to increase the specs on the > hardware by nearly a factor of two to run Windows. > > MS also insists on sharing they joys of Windoze's lack of security with > the underdeveloped peoples of the world. > > On the flip side, those who have seen a computer, at this point conflate > Windows OS with computers. > > Linux needs work before it will be competitive, in spite of our hopes. > > Harold > > > On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 11:36 -0700, Rhune Lord wrote: > > > http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > > > > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- - http://www.joshuazeidner.com/ --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
I got the feeling that the OLPC project got frustrated in dealing with (some of) the Free and Open Source software people. I never heard him say that he went to MS because of technology reasons. koder wrote: I am not sure if this is OT or not. Other posts have noted that OLPC will have to increase the specs on the hardware by nearly a factor of two to run Windows. MS also insists on sharing they joys of Windoze's lack of security with the underdeveloped peoples of the world. On the flip side, those who have seen a computer, at this point conflate Windows OS with computers. Linux needs work before it will be competitive, in spite of our hopes. Harold On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 11:36 -0700, Rhune Lord wrote: http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
Harold, The fact is, there are a lot of aspects to this issue that many overlook. Yesterday, I was talking with Josh Weiss who sets up computer labs for rural Guatemalans about the relevance of Linux in his program [1]. Currently his group does not deploy Linux solutions. The perception is that it is more valuable to teach Microsoft because the skills gained are more marketable in places like the US, and acts to increase the chances that a rural Guatemalan goes on to University education. Although not explicitly stated, I feel there is also the issue of availability of Linux expertise to actually do the teaching and setting up of systems there. One thing that I feel groups like this overlook are all the tangential assets gained by teaching Linux and OSS. If there were a enough Linux people in Guatemala, they could for instance build domestic ISPs and start to bring down the costs of Internet connectivity (which is out of the reach of more than 50% of Guatemalans). In addition they could enrich the general civic discourse by building web sites, mobile communications platforms, etc. For as long as they teach Windows, the skills cannot be used to enrich the local environment, because base licensing costs prohibit scalable and effective solutions (and the host of other obstacles that Windows brings). Now multiply this effect by 30 or 40 and you've got entire classes of exportable services propping up that become direct competitors to Microsoft. Its the kind of economic avalanche that Redmond is terrified of. I am sure Microsoft fully understands what is at risk by having the entire 3rd world running Linux. The stakes are quite high. I would guess that Microsoft would even be willing to take a loss per laptop to make sure that Linux is not a viable option for the 3rd world. As I mentioned before, this is above all else an opportunity for hardware providers. -jmz [1] http://www.joshuazeidner.com/2008/04/josh-weiss-networking-poor-in-guatemala.html On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:28 PM, koder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I am not sure if this is OT or not. > > Other posts have noted that OLPC will have to increase the specs on the > hardware by nearly a factor of two to run Windows. > > MS also insists on sharing they joys of Windoze's lack of security with > the underdeveloped peoples of the world. > > On the flip side, those who have seen a computer, at this point conflate > Windows OS with computers. > > Linux needs work before it will be competitive, in spite of our hopes. > > Harold > > > On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 11:36 -0700, Rhune Lord wrote: >> http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 > > --- > PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: > http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss > -- - http://www.joshuazeidner.com/ --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
Rhune Lord wrote: http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 Quick read & a little OT but any thoughts? I don't see this as OT. Negroponte and OLPC was the first major force to overcome the "chicken and egg" problem with widespread Linux adoption. This problem is that few mainstream manufacturers, software makers, etc. support Linux because there are not enough Linux users. And there aren't enough Linux users because there isn't enough mainstream industry support. OLPC was to be millions of computers all running Linux/FS/OSS, taking a huge step to solve the "enough users" side of the problem. The OLPC project is now facing the reality of distribution and other issues that, perhaps, they did not plan well to handle. With such problems combined with the clash of the "Microsoft = how a computer works" culture, it's hard to do what they set out to do. The power of the mono-culture/monopoly of ideas in action. It appears that Negroponte and OLPC has taken path of least resistance in the MS dominated marketplace just to stay above the other problems in the project. The project has done some amazingly positive things for the computer world. They proved that small, inexpensive computers are possible and have a market. They have pushed the big players and others to actually think about new ways to solve the technological divide. They have made innovations in hardware technology. They have raised the awareness of Linux/FS/OSS to the general masses. Overall it has been and probably will still be a positive thing. But, I am very disappointed at the apparent capitulation to using MS software. It sends the message that Free Software is still not good enough, even though we know it is and can be. It contradicts many of the earlier statements made by the OLPC project about autonomy and local investment for the users of the computers. And so it makes me think that the project really does not believe in what they set out to do as the remove a foundational principle. And that is sad. Alan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Re: Microsoft joins OLPC
I am not sure if this is OT or not. Other posts have noted that OLPC will have to increase the specs on the hardware by nearly a factor of two to run Windows. MS also insists on sharing they joys of Windoze's lack of security with the underdeveloped peoples of the world. On the flip side, those who have seen a computer, at this point conflate Windows OS with computers. Linux needs work before it will be competitive, in spite of our hopes. Harold On Sat, 2008-05-17 at 11:36 -0700, Rhune Lord wrote: > http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
Microsoft joins OLPC
http://www.redherring.com/Home/24265 Quick read & a little OT but any thoughts? --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings: http://lists.PLUG.phoenix.az.us/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
